United Airlines and Channel 9

[maddog52]

True enough about the 757s. But that wasn't much of an excuse on the RJ from PDX to SFO last Sunday. But, I was in a hurry to make a connection and there's no IFE on an RJ anyway.

The RJs are NOT flown by United Pilots!!

 

[gismo]

Furloughs are a fact of airline life. It is very rare that a person can make it through a career and NOT get furloughed. In that regard, I have been VERY lucky.

Besides the seemingly oppressive structure and opportunities for unplanned and unpaid vacations, the ever looming possibility that you might have to start over from the bottom if your employer evaporates ala Eastern and Brannif eliminated the attraction of any airline career for me a long time ago.

 

[ScottM]

The RJs are NOT flown by United Pilots!!

I think those of us in the know understand that. But if the plane has United livery, the crew is wearing a uniform that says 'United Airlines' on it and you ticket was bought form United with a UAL flight number on it. Then it is a United Airlines flight and crew for all intents and purposes. The customer experience should be the same or better.

 

[maddog52]

I think those of us in the know understand that. But if the plane has United livery, the crew is wearing a uniform that says 'United Airlines' on it and you ticket was bought form United with a UAL flight number on it. Then it is a United Airlines flight and crew for all intents and purposes. The customer experience should be the same or better.

The pilots don't wear United uniforms. The cabin crew will occasionally wear items that say United. I agree with you on everything else. Unfortunately, most people don't realize that the RJs are a bait and switch, outsource to the lowest bidder operation.

 

[Ghery]

The RJs are NOT flown by United Pilots!!

I think those of us in the know understand that. But if the plane has United livery, the crew is wearing a uniform that says 'United Airlines' on it and you ticket was bought form United with a UAL flight number on it. Then it is a United Airlines flight and crew for all intents and purposes. The customer experience should be the same or better.

The pilots don't wear United uniforms. The cabin crew will occasionally wear items that say United. I agree with you on everything else. Unfortunately, most people don't realize that the RJs are a bait and switch, outsource to the lowest bidder operation.

The RJs aren't even UA aircraft. Quite clear when it says "Operated by XXX airlines" on the side of the plane. But, Scott's point holds. I bought a ticket on UA and expect UA service. I know there's no IFE on an RJ, so I don't expect ch 9, but otherwise...

 

[astanley]

Good point, they hardly get the door open. I also seem to be on 757s a lot lately and UAL deplanes from door two so 1st class walks away from the cockpit.

I love LHR so much that my last trip to Malaga Spain I went to Stockholm to catch a flight in order to avoid LHR! Has the transit security line gotten any better since terminal 5 opened?

I did 7 transits of LHR/T5 last year, if memory serves correctly. My first T5 transit was 24 hours after they opened -- so I'm going to discount that experience entirely.

4x transits were T3-T5, 1x T1-T5, and 1x T5-T5. All were from closed-border states; none were intra-UK.

The T3's are pretty easy if you are in J or F or up in the front of Y. I can usually be on the first or second transit bus from T3 to T5 as long as I'm F/J/first 2 rows of Y. I walk pretty fast, sometimes to the point of sweating a bit, primarily because I hate waiting in the bus transfer line. In fact, I had a stretch of 3 transits where I was in the South Galleries lounge within 20 minutes of the door opening.

The biggest bottleneck at T5 is the onward transfer desks that you must queue at before going through security (T5 security will not let you through without a BA boarding pass). The later flights (0700-0800) arrivals can be quite a pain in this sense, with many lost souls trying to figure out which queue to stand in.

The T5 security lanes aren't exactly the most efficient, especially with their (randomly enforced) "one grey bin per passenger" rule. This is a big PITA if you have a 22" roll-aboard, like I do. (Mine is technically 1" over linear-length for LHR, but I'm 6 for 6 with it), but they will open lines quite proactively if queues get large.

Anyways... I do not mind T5. It's far better than CDG and FRA at a minimum (then again, I am a OW flyer, not a *A or ST flyer)

Cheer,s

-Andrew

 

[wsuffa]

Anyways... I do not mind T5. It's far better than CDG

ORD, JFK, and LHR combined are better than CDG. And I have 3 million miles on ST.

On one trip through CDG I was connecting to OSL.... we took (what seemed like) a 3 hour tour of the airport (really was only 20 minutes) in the bus, then had a 15 minute walk plus security and customs to take ANOTHER bus to the outbound. And then a gate **** at bus entry by security folks. No joke: I allow 3 hours for a connection there.

 

[astanley]

ORD, JFK, and LHR combined are better than CDG. And I have 3 million miles on ST.

On one trip through CDG I was connecting to OSL.... we took (what seemed like) a 3 hour tour of the airport (really was only 20 minutes) in the bus, then had a 15 minute walk plus security and customs to take ANOTHER bus to the outbound. And then a gate **** at bus entry by security folks. No joke: I allow 3 hours for a connection there.

Coming back from my engagement trip, I had a 1.5hr connection from FLR to BOS.

We got one of the satellite-apron-airstair-bus runs, I had to sprint from security to the "final call" announcement for my flight. My bags didn't make it until the following day.

I hate CDG.

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[ScottM]

The pilots don't wear United uniforms. The cabin crew will occasionally wear items that say United. I agree with you on everything else. Unfortunately, most people don't realize that the RJs are a bait and switch, outsource to the lowest bidder operation.

The cabin attendants are in blue, with blue UAL scarves and name tags that say 'United Airlines'. That is a UAL uniform to the public.

 

[maddog52]

The cabin attendants are in blue, with blue UAL scarves and name tags that say 'United Airlines'. That is a UAL uniform to the public.

Not on all UAX flights. Still not a UAL uniform but you are right. The public doesn't realize they aren't on UAL.

 

[ScottM]

Not on all UAX flights. Still not a UAL uniform but you are right. The public doesn't realize they aren't on UAL.

Yep that is my point.

If the non-UAL crew gives less than UAL standard service it is UAL that gets the blame. To be fair I usually get better service on RJ so UAL does also get the credit.

I love Horizon Air for my regional flight. It is a separate company from Alaska Airlines, but it still makes me like Alaska Airlines.

 

[Ghery]

Yep that is my point.

If the non-UAL crew gives less than UAL standard service it is UAL that gets the blame. To be fair I usually get better service on RJ so UAL does also get the credit.

I love Horizon Air for my regional flight. It is a separate company from Alaska Airlines, but it still makes me like Alaska Airlines.

Horizon gives good service, no doubt about it. But, they serve a niche market. Only game in town if I'm flying commercial to PUW.

 

[ScottM]

Horizon gives good service, no doubt about it. But, they serve a niche market. Only game in town if I'm flying commercial to PUW.

But that also does not seem to stop them from being decent! They could just turn into a cattle flight. But they still give out free papers, coffee, micro-brew of the month, etc.

One of the reasons I will still fly Air France, coach, is that when I sit down on their flight in the morning I can get a safe et croissant or pain chocolate for free. On American, Delta, United, I am lucky if I DO NOT get a sneer from the purser for ruining her day by showing up and making her work!

 

[Ghery]

But that also does not seem to stop them from being decent! They could just turn into a cattle flight. But they still give out free papers, coffee, micro-brew of the month, etc.

One reason I was happy to give a Horizon pilot a break at PUW the end of May. I was on downwind when he was taxiing out. I had the right of way, but I knew he had a schedule and my brother and I did not, so I called him on CTAF and told him that I'd just exit the pattern and make another run at it so he could have the runway. Things can work well at an uncontrolled field when people cooperate.

 

[sba55]

I'm going to disagree for a number of reasons.

First, the "misinformed" sometimes get informed when something interesting comes their way.

Second, so far, anyway, I've never heard a smart-*** remark made by a passenger based on what they heard on Channel 9 (although I'm not, of course, standing at the cabin as folks depart. And if they do, bfd.

Third, I like listening to it. It's better than the movie. If you find it annoying, feel free to listen to a different channel.

I fly United a LOT (as in, I'm in my mid-20s and I'm more than 2/3 to 1 million miles). I've never, ever come across a passenger who took away some piece of useful information from Channel 9. Instead, it's always comments like "oh no, they called for the plane to go around, they MISSED THE RUNWAY!!!!!" (this just last week).

The problem I see is that it doesn't lead to anything good if you give misinformed folks too much information. Just tell them that "the runway doesn't open until 10am and that's why we had to go around". THey'll understand that....

 

[astanley]

But that also does not seem to stop them from being decent! They could just turn into a cattle flight. But they still give out free papers, coffee, micro-brew of the month, etc.

One of the reasons I will still fly Air France, coach, is that when I sit down on their flight in the morning I can get a safe et croissant or pain chocolate for free. On American, Delta, United, I am lucky if I DO NOT get a sneer from the purser for ruining her day by showing up and making her work!

American Eagle still gives me my drink and snack

AF requires connecting at CDG. No thanks . . .

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Ghery]

I fly United a LOT (as in, I'm in my mid-20s and I'm more than 2/3 to 1 million miles). I've never, ever come across a passenger who took away some piece of useful information from Channel 9. Instead, it's always comments like "oh no, they called for the plane to go around, they MISSED THE RUNWAY!!!!!" (this just last week).

The problem I see is that it doesn't lead to anything good if you give misinformed folks too much information. Just tell them that "the runway doesn't open until 10am and that's why we had to go around". THey'll understand that....

Ch 9 wasn't on for our flight from LIH to SFO on Sunday, but the pilot wasted little time getting on the PA after executing a go around due to not having enough room between us and the plane ahead. My son was caught by surprise with the application of power and pitch up, but I had felt the approach didn't seem quite as stabilized as I would have expected, so I wasn't quite as surprised. 2nd go around in an airliner for me, both due to the folks ahead of us not clearing the runway in time. Adds about 15 minutes to the arrival time (B-52 patterns ). Oh well, we didn't have a tight connection.

 

[wsuffa]

American Eagle still gives me my drink and snack

Though sometimes you have to ask...

 

[astanley]

Though sometimes you have to ask...

What, you don't have a big electronic "I AM AN EXP DYKWIA?" sign on your head when you board?

Clearly, then, you must be doing it wrong.

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[qbynewbie]

I'm pretty darned loyal to UAL: 1K for years, tons of miles, etc. I fly them all the time and find that (a) the planes that I fly on are on time or early these days way more than 90% of the time; (b) the crews are pleasant, at least to me; (c) the flights are safe; and (d) my checked baggage always arrives with me. (Of course, I may have just jinxed myself by saying that. )

In all honesty, Channel 9 is a frill and not having it wouldn't affect my buying decision, because no one else has it. But if UAL didn't have it and Delta started offering it, that might well get me thinking. As someone else mentioned above, economy plus seating is a big advantage when you're not upgraded.

I, too, fly United Express quite a lot. I think most passengers really do understand the difference between UAL and the regional carriers. Of all of the United Express carriers, I've found SkyWest to be just terrific -- at least the equivalent of UAL in service and often better.

Another thing mentioned above: it's rare to see a captain or first officer at the door at either the beginning or the end of the flight. I've had flights over the years where the captain or FO chose to walk down the aisle, say hello to folks and thank everyone for flying with the company. When that does happen, it's impressive and makes an impression. Seeing the captain standing by the door at the end of the flight isn't as substantial but better than nothing. Never seeing the flight crew from start to finish may be efficient in terms of operations but it's fairly lousy marketing.

Finally, you get the flights where the flight crew seems almost unwilling to communicate with the passengers. I've had more than a few flights where the seatbelt sign stayed on for almost the entire first hour with not a word from the flight crew. It always seems as if they're sitting there saying "how much longer do you think we can torture them and keep them from going to the bathrooms?" It's absolutely infuriating when the flight is smooth, the forecast is good and yet it goes on and on without a word from the flight crew. Eventually, I'll get to the point where I'll ask a FA to inquire when the seat belt sign will be turned off. Usually that gets it turned off instantly -- which is almost more aggravating because it then seems as if the flight crew had simply forgotten or chosen not to turn it off because a significant reason for not turning it off wouldn't be affected by a question from a FA.

In the end, communication from the front of the plane can make or break a flight. It's as simple as that.

 

[ScottM]

In the end, communication from the front of the plane can make or break a flight. It's as simple as that.

On red eyes comms from up front break the flight!

 

[Everskyward]

I've had flights over the years where the captain or FO chose to walk down the aisle, say hello to folks and thank everyone for flying with the company.

Are you talking about in the days before locked cockpit doors? I'm trying to imagine how they would do that nowadays. Really I can't remember any crew ever doing this even back in the old days.

 

[ScottM]

Are you talking about in the days before locked cockpit doors? I'm trying to imagine how they would do that nowadays. Really I can't remember any crew ever doing this even back in the old days.

I can. Used to be quit common. Nowadays I only see relief crew going past the cart blocking the bathroom.

 

[qbynewbie]

Are you talking about in the days before locked cockpit doors? I'm trying to imagine how they would do that nowadays. Really I can't remember any crew ever doing this even back in the old days.

I can. Used to be quit common. Nowadays I only see relief crew going past the cart blocking the bathroom.

Sorry. I meant before the flight departed. One of the crew -- generally the captain -- would take a few minutes and walk down the aisle, saying hello and thanking folks. It still happens occasionally.

 

[Everskyward]

Sorry. I meant before the flight departed. One of the crew -- generally the captain -- would take a few minutes and walk down the aisle, saying hello and thanking folks. It still happens occasionally.

It seems like before the flight departs people are scrambling to put their stuff in the overhead compartment and blocking the aisles. At least that's the case with all the flights I can remember taking in as long as I can remember.

 

[ScottM]

Sorry. I meant before the flight departed. One of the crew -- generally the captain -- would take a few minutes and walk down the aisle, saying hello and thanking folks. It still happens occasionally.

I fly a lot and have so for a number of years and I can never remember that happening.

It seems like before the flight departs people are scrambling to put their stuff in the overhead compartment and blocking the aisles. At least that's the case with all the flights I can remember taking in as long as I can remember.

Exactly.

I have seen it in flight once we got up to cruise and the meals were handed out. That is handed out to everyone not just those in first class. Yes, kids, in the olden days hot meals were served to everyone on board and there was not additional charge.

 

[Everskyward]

I have seen it in flight once we got up to cruise and the meals were handed out.

But are they still allowed to do that?

That is handed out to everyone not just those in first class. Yes, kids, in the olden days hot meals were served to everyone on board and there was not additional charge.

I remember those days too... vaguely. I also remember the food not being all that great. I actually was served a hot meal in coach not too long ago (2-3 years?). I think it was supposed to be something like a hot pocket and it was virtually inedible. The only airline meal I remember as being good was on a 747 going from EWR to SFO. They had a big buffet set up in the back of the airplane as I recall. Of course this was back in... guessing 1977.

 

[Ted]

But are they still allowed to do that?
I remember those days too... vaguely. I also remember the food not being all that great. I actually was served a hot meal in coach not too long ago (2-3 years?). I think it was supposed to be something like a hot pocket and it was virtually inedible. The only airline meal I remember as being good was on a 747 going from EWR to SFO. They had a big buffet set up in the back of the airplane as I recall. Of course this was back in... guessing 1977.

On my first trip to Europe in 1992, we flew on Air France from JFK to Paris. The meal in coach (yes, coach) included smoked salmon. It was good, too.

My mom promised me that the rest of the trip was going to have better food. For the only time I can recall, I looked forward to the flight back home because of the food.

 

[ScottM]

But are they still allowed to do that?

I have not seen it on a domestic flight in, I don't know when, even pre-911. But on international flights it is not uncommon to see an off duty crew member walking the aisles.

With the new security that you have to stay in your cabin I am not able to go for my walks. I guess there was a big security issue with people walking from 1st class to the rear of the airplane to hijack it, so they put the kabash on it. But I have been able to go for a walk with the off duty crew person from time to time. I guess if I try to take control of the airplane in the aft lav he will be able to stop me with his tie.

On flights run by non-US airlines you still see all kinds of stuff. I have ridden in a AeroMexico 737 a few years ago where they kept the cockpit door open to help vent the cigar smoke from the captain.

 

[Ted]

With the new security that you have to stay in your cabin I am not able to go for my walks. I guess there was a big security issue with people walking from 1st class to the rear of the airplane to hijack it, so they put the kabash on it. But I have been able to go for a walk with the off duty crew person from time to time. I guess if I try to take control of the airplane in the aft lav he will be able to stop me with his tie.

Scott, are they stopping you from taking walks at all? On those long flights, I could see that being a big problem. Sitting in one seat for that long (especially those uncomfortable seats) isn't good for your legs.

 

[ScottM]

Scott, are they stopping you from taking walks at all? On those long flights, I could see that being a big problem. Sitting in one seat for that long (especially those uncomfortable seats) isn't good for your legs.

You only walk if you remain in your own cabin, do not enter the galley, and do not loiter around the cockpit door. IOW if you are in 1st class you can stand up look around and then sit down again. As long as you also STFU and not look at any of the FA sideways. I hate air travel on an America air carrier.

It is really interesting flying both foreign and domestic carriers. On the foreign ones the announcements are all about being welcomed and how they may make your flight more comfortable. Get on that domestic air carrier and it is a litany of what you cannot do.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Scott, are they stopping you from taking walks at all?

That isn't happening on UAL.

 

[ScottM]

That isn't happening on UAL.

Yes it is. On UAL, like the other domestic carriers you are pretty much stuck in your cabin. I tried walking from 1st to biz class to speak with a colleague about a work issue on a flight earlier this year and was told by a UAL FA that the "FAA does not allow us to do that any longer". On my UAL flight last week the FA in 1st chased three people out of that cabin. They were coach people that were trying to use the lav because the path was blocked to the rear lavs.

 

[Everskyward]

On flights run by non-US airlines you still see all kinds of stuff. I have ridden in a AeroMexico 737 a few years ago where they kept the cockpit door open to help vent the cigar smoke from the captain.

I have almost no experience flying internationally. I do remember going from Miami to Quito on some Ecuadorian airline number of years ago. I think they were using a 707 long after they were mostly retired in this country. That's about the only thing I remember about the trip other than my return flight was canceled and I had to buy a ticket on American if I wanted to get back that day.

Airlines have just been another form of transportation for me for a long time. I can remember thinking it was cool when I was a kid but that ceased about the time I went to college. Personally I don't care if they entertain me or not as long as they are safe, reliable and clean. Since I basically only travel domestically I don't care if they serve food. If I think I'm going to be that hungry I can buy something in the terminal and take it along. If I was on a 15-hour international flight I might feel differently, though. Even then I don't require hot food. Simple is OK as long as it is fresh and edible. I don't care about movies, TV or Channel 9. For whatever reason, boarding an airplane makes me instantly sleepy so I usually alternate between sleeping and reading. If I wanted to listen to music I would bring an iPod.

Since it's a small world I usually try to peek to see if I might know one of the crewmembers and I like it when they give their names. I don't really care if they say goodbye or not since I know they can be busy, although it's nice that the FAs do.

I think my main complaint is that when something happens to cause a delay, especially on the ground, the gate agents don't give you much information. They often seem to mill around in a state of confusion and are not very attuned to customer service. I think part of this is lack of training or emphasis on the airline's part or maybe they are not paying enough to keep people who are experienced and who care.

 

[ScottM]

I think my main complaint is that when something happens to cause a delay, especially on the ground, the gate agents don't give you much information. They often seem to mill around in a state of confusion and are not very attuned to customer service. I think part of this is lack of training or emphasis on the airline's part or maybe they are not paying enough to keep people who are experienced and who care.

I think it is more that everyone is so overworked and that dispatchers are located remotely that there are huge disconnects of information.

 

[gprellwitz]

I think my main complaint is that when something happens to cause a delay, especially on the ground, the gate agents don't give you much information. They often seem to mill around in a state of confusion and are not very attuned to customer service. I think part of this is lack of training or emphasis on the airline's part or maybe they are not paying enough to keep people who are experienced and who care.

I remember seeing a show a while back about an early meeting of a bunch of FAs or gate agents new to the company. The meeting organizers didn't show up for about an hour after the mandatory meeting was scheduled to start, and no one told the people what the delay was. When the organizer showed up, s/he told the attendees to remember the feeling, because that's what passengers felt like when left in the gate area without information. I kind of liked that!

 

[astanley]

Scott, are they stopping you from taking walks at all? On those long flights, I could see that being a big problem. Sitting in one seat for that long (especially those uncomfortable seats) isn't good for your legs.

I fly F/J (primarily) internationally and have never had this issue. Walk to front of cabin, lap through galley, back down cabin, lap through galley, return to seat. 3 - 4x on a nice long flight (12+ hr)

Even in coach, I've done this without issue.

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Ghery]

But are they still allowed to do that?
I remember those days too... vaguely. I also remember the food not being all that great. I actually was served a hot meal in coach not too long ago (2-3 years?). I think it was supposed to be something like a hot pocket and it was virtually inedible. The only airline meal I remember as being good was on a 747 going from EWR to SFO. They had a big buffet set up in the back of the airplane as I recall. Of course this was back in... guessing 1977.

Sounds like you were flying TWA. Their "Deli Buffet in the Sky" deal. I experienced that a time or two when I was working for the Navy in the late 1970s. Nothing like that these days, that's for sure.

Hot meals are still served in cattle car on trans Pac and trans-Atlantic flights. At least they were on UA this summer. I'll let you know about LH later this month.

 

[ScottM]

I fly F/J (primarily) internationally and have never had this issue. Walk to front of cabin, lap through galley, back down cabin, lap through galley, return to seat. 3 - 4x on a nice long flight (12+ hr)

Even in coach, I've done this without issue.

Cheers,

-Andrew

I get stopped all the time. You are actually walking from first to coach and back or just lapping in your assigned cabin?

I can walk around the cabin I am in, but 1st is not a large cabin. In the 747-400 is is not a very good place to walk either. I will often stand by the exit door and stretch my legs. They seem to be ok doing that.

 

[ron22]

I I can walk around the cabin I am in, but 1st is not a large cabin.

The simple answer is to just stop flying 1st class.