uninsured?

S

sesokol

Filing Flight Plan
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13521 Sioux
I wonder how many are flying without insurance? Any stats?
 
Who cares? Insure to cover yourself, to your level of risk.
 
Stats, doubt it.

But I'd wager it's well over 15%

I've flown without insurance before, ain't the end of the world.

It's just a product, like any other, judge your need and spend accordingly.
 
define "without" ?

for us:

king air and travel air: hull, liability, inc off-airport coverage.
pawnee: liability, overspray, ground ops excluded
champ: not-in-motion liability only (req'd hangar insurance)
 
OP has only 1 post ... and it is this one ...

troll_detected.png
 
I flew the FBO's aircraft for my entire Private training and a dozen or so hours afterwards with no non-owned insurance. Only until last year did I drop the money on the premium for CYA now that I have a few more assets for them to come after.
 
James331 said:
Stats, doubt it.

But I'd wager it's well over 15%

I've flown without insurance before, ain't the end of the world.

It's just a product, like any other, judge your need and spend accordingly.
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It sure is the end of the world if you injure someone or another airplane due to it being your fault! Of course if you own nothing I suppose it doesn't matter to you.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
It sure is the end of the world if you injure someone or another airplane due to it being your fault! Of course if you own nothing I suppose it doesn't matter to you.
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Lots of people/planes operate in places and manners where that just isn't a real risk, and many times insuring those ops is prohibitive.
 
Henning said:
Lots of people/planes operate in places and manners where that just isn't a real risk, and many times insuring those ops is prohibitive.
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I thought you'd probably pipe up with an arguement that isn't germain to what is being discussed which is the normal, run of the mill G.A. Pilot. I'm sure your 310 was insured.....wasn't it?
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
I thought you'd probably pipe up with an arguement that isn't germain to what is being discussed which is the normal, run of the mill G.A. Pilot. I'm sure your 310 was insured.....wasn't it?
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Not the first year I was flying it. I didn't insure it until I went to OSH with it the first time as my risk exposure was minimal considering my operations. When it was time to go to OSH, my risk exposure increased dramatically, so I covered it with insurance. Like James said, it's a product, use it when it suits you.
 
Henning said:
Not the first year I was flying it. I didn't insure it until I went to OSH with it the first time as my risk exposure was minimal considering my operations. When it was time to go to OSH, my risk exposure increased dramatically, so I covered it with insurance. Like James said, it's a product, use it when it suits you.
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Wrong! You put yourself and more importantly OTHERS at risk the first time you fired it up. Screw ups don't pick a time to happen, they just do no matter how much of an expert one is in an armchair. It's why auto insurance is mandatory, because of that type reasoning. Same should hold true for aircraft.
 
sesokol said:
I wonder how many are flying without insurance? Any stats?
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The fact of the mater is that there aren't any accurate statistics about how many are flying - period. To try to estimate how many of an unknown number may or may not have some kind of insurance would be meaningless.
 
You're always at risk, you're always going to be in a position to cause another harm, many time insurance ain't going to help, and every time they will try their best to get out of paying.

It's just calculated risk, some folks feel the need to try to hide under the name of safety, just look at TSA, honestly there are some risks that aren't worth insuring.

Flying a backcountry plane over wide open country with few people and many places to put her down, ether for chits and giggles or in a emergency, might not be a place you need insurance.

Many drop zones won't insure their aircraft (turbines included) it costs so much that it's worth the risk, some of that risk is removed by hiring minimums for pilots and TIs and having customers sign a waiver.

Insurance is a gamble, you're wagering that money that something bad is going to happen, the profit in the industry shows that more times than not that's a loosing bet.

It's just a product to buy if you feel you need it, my first year with the 185 I have it fully insured.

These things aren't black and white issues, do you need insurance --> depends :yes:
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Wrong! You put yourself and more importantly OTHERS at risk the first time you fired it up. Screw ups don't pick a time to happen, they just do no matter how much of an expert one is in an armchair. It's why auto insurance is mandatory, because of that type reasoning. Same should hold true for aircraft.
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I have plenty of options besides killing someone else. The risk of killing someone on the ground is very very low even in operations over dense populations.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Wrong! You put yourself and more importantly OTHERS at risk the first time you fired it up. Screw ups don't pick a time to happen, they just do no matter how much of an expert one is in an armchair. It's why auto insurance is mandatory, because of that type reasoning. Same should hold true for aircraft.
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Risk level is entirely dependent on where/how you are operating the aircraft, and as such, the liability you incur. As I mentioned, when I was doing my Private training, I was in a rental 172 (which had insurance via FBO), but the time spent over a "populated area" was so miniscule it could almost be ignored. The rest of the time I was over farmland or similar, so there's not much of any protection that an insurance product provides in that instance, much less the fact that I didn't own any assets for a lawsuit to come after. Now that I don't have a CFI in the aircraft and I have a couple of homes, a boat, and some vehicles it makes more sense to protect those assets.

Like was mentioned earlier, insurance is a product which should be utilized and adjusted as the conditions merit.
 
I'm not aware of any FAR that says you must operate with insurance. That being said, I have plenty of it!
 
BGF_Yankee said:
I'm not aware of any FAR that says you must operate with insurance. That being said, I have plenty of it!
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There is none. As close as it gets is some airports require insurance before they will rent you a hangar or tie down.
 
Liability is cheap, I know lots of pilots/owners that carry only liability. Most of them have airplanes that they can afford to walk away from if totaled. That doesn't mean they are crappy airplanes, just that those people can afford to take the loss on them. One of my buddies is liability only on a very nice Tiger.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Wrong! You put yourself and more importantly OTHERS at risk the first time you fired it up. Screw ups don't pick a time to happen, they just do no matter how much of an expert one is in an armchair. It's why auto insurance is mandatory, because of that type reasoning. Same should hold true for aircraft.
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Auto insurance isn't mandatory everywhere. And you need insurance to protect yourself from everyone else, the world doesn't owe you fairness and just might crap on you.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Auto insurance isn't mandatory everywhere. And you need insurance to protect yourself from everyone else, the world doesn't owe you fairness and just might crap on you.
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There's always a reply that try's to show how" bright" they are. If you own a home, have some savings, pretty dumb not to be insured today. I'll never forget the idiot who used to brag that he never insured his airplane and saved thousands! Until snow collapsed the hangar on his airplane. He whined for months about it! Like a broken record. Tried to sue the airport, that did not fly either.!Tiresome. As henning has stated , he had insurance when.....he forgot to put the gear down.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Auto insurance isn't mandatory everywhere. And you need insurance to protect yourself from everyone else, the world doesn't owe you fairness and just might crap on you.
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I thought shy of being Amish it was mandatory in the US of A.

Greg, you appear to have a good head on your shoulders :yes:
 
Both airports I've based at in the past 20 years have required a copy of my liability and hull insurance. It's the smart way to protect oneself. We are a society that loves to sue each other. To me it's a silly arguement. As long as you don't run into or injure me I could care less what you do.
 
NH is what I know, dunno if there are others. I do know it is difficult to get plates without insurance in MA and NY and driving without insurance in those states is a fairly serious offense. Last I heard(many years ago, I was surpised) no insurance was a $40 ticket in VT. Yeah for states rights.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Both airports I've based at in the past 20 years have required a copy of my liability and hull insurance. It's the smart way to protect oneself. We are a society that loves to sue each other. To me it's a silly arguement. As long as you don't run into or injure me I could care less what you do.
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Someone might. Might be a honest accident, might be a malicious methhead. Expecting the second type to have insurance to cover you is immature and unrealistic.
 
bullwinkle said:
Liability is cheap, I know lots of pilots/owners that carry only liability. Most of them have airplanes that they can afford to walk away from if totaled. That doesn't mean they are crappy airplanes, just that those people can afford to take the loss on them. One of my buddies is liability only on a very nice Tiger.
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our neighbor with a D-model P-51 dropped his hull coverage when the deductible went to $150K
 
NoHeat said:
There's New Hampshire. No required insurance.

"Live free or die" is the slogan on their plates, but you could probably rewrite that into "die, or live and suffer without insurance payments." At least for the purpose of automobile collisions.
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Seemed like the place was doing well while I was there for a week.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
I'm not aware of any FAR that says you must operate with insurance. That being said, I have plenty of it!
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No FAR, but some states require it (like they do for cars). And some airports require it, especially if you rent tie downs or hangar space.
 
JHW said:
our neighbor with a D-model P-51 dropped his hull coverage when the deductible went to $150K
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Hey.....if you can't afford to insure a two million dollar airplane you'd better not buy one. Incidentally look up new hampshires auto insurance laws. They certainly do have requirements.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Hey.....if you can't afford to insure a two million dollar airplane you'd better not buy one. Incidentally look up new hampshires auto insurance laws. They certainly do have requirements.
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If you can afford a $2MM dollar toy you can afford to self insure it. $2MM when you have $2+BB in assets generating more revenue for you, it doesn't make sense to pay for hull insurance.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Wrong! You put yourself and more importantly OTHERS at risk the first time you fired it up. Screw ups don't pick a time to happen, they just do no matter how much of an expert one is in an armchair. It's why auto insurance is mandatory, because of that type reasoning. Same should hold true for aircraft.
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You seem to have made a huge leap in assumptions about Henning's assets and financial resources absent an insurance policy. For all you know, he trips over sackfuls and millions each day he checks the post.

I'd have been offended in his place. :dunno:

I carry liability insurance at a minimum for my aviation pursuits, so you can infer how many millions I do not have lying around for the lawyers to harvest. I have not always carried Hull. I've had 3 total hull losses with no hull coverage in place, and I managed to not sue anyone else over my risk that did not pay off.

We're all different. One size does not fit all.
 
schmookeeg said:
You seem to have made a huge leap in assumptions about Henning's assets and financial resources absent an insurance policy. For all you know, he trips over sackfuls and millions each day he checks the post.

I'd have been offended in his place. :dunno:

I carry liability insurance at a minimum for my aviation pursuits, so you can infer how many millions I do not have lying around for the lawyers to harvest. I have not always carried Hull. I've had 3 total hull losses with no hull coverage in place, and I managed to not sue anyone else over my risk that did not pay off.

We're all different. One size does not fit all.
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Rubbermaid Totes, I had to switch from sacks when the arthritis started, they were too tough to hold and carry.
 
schmookeeg said:
You seem to have made a huge leap in assumptions about Henning's assets and financial resources absent an insurance policy. For all you know, he trips over sackfuls and millions each day he checks the post.

I'd have been offended in his place. :dunno:

I carry liability insurance at a minimum for my aviation pursuits, so you can infer how many millions I do not have lying around for the lawyers to harvest. I have not always carried Hull. I've had 3 total hull losses with no hull coverage in place, and I managed to not sue anyone else over my risk that did not pay off.

We're all different. One size does not fit all.
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Common sense should certainly not offend anyone. If henning were this wealthy I would suppose he would own the yacht rather than be a captain for someone who's wealthy. That's the way it usually works. Nor would he be flying a fifty year old twin. Hired hands would be flying him in something much newer and nicer.
 
Insured here.

I wouldn't fly without at least liability coverage. In this litigous society, I can just see some scuzzy lawyer licking his lips if I hurt someone.

And I have an umbrella policy through USAA. I don't know what it would cover flying wise, but it's supposed to kick in when strange things happen.
 
txflyer said:
Insured here.

I wouldn't fly without at least liability coverage. In this litigous society, I can just see some scuzzy lawyer licking his lips if I hurt someone.

And I have an umbrella policy through USAA. I don't know what it would cover flying wise, but it's supposed to kick in when strange things happen.
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I agree and I would check with my insurer to see if the umbrella covers aircraft operations. Ours does not.
 
Palmpilot said:
So everyone is a troll when they post for the first time? :rolleyes:
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No. And I think the question posed in the OP is perfectly good.

I don't think anybody is going to be able to produce statistics as suggested, but otherwise it's a good topic for a discussion.
 
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