U/A and Dr. Dao (2017)

PeterNSteinmetz said:
I wonder if the Captain ever came back to speak with Dr. Dao? I did not see that mentioned in the history on Wikipedia. Sometimes people with some familiarity with aviation recognize the authority of the PIC, even if they are failing to follow the regulations regarding following crew member instructions.
Click to expand...
I don’t deal with that. Call the red coat and call it a day. Our manual says, for the most part, don’t get involved. Notify a gate agent or red coat and let them deal with it.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I have seen it happen and is why I brought it up. As noted by @Tarheelpilot and @Larry in TN the Captain is PIC and has ultimate authority and it is up to him/her. Sometimes that can be used help more peacefully resolve a problem than calling LEOs. And yes, hauling human beings is a different set of responsibilities than hauling inanimate objects.
Click to expand...
Ok... I'll let the "real" airline pilots speak up here.

Would you, as a Captain, get out of your seat and go to the back in order to resolve a dispute with an unruly passenger (whether at the gate or airborne)? If you were an FO, what would you tell your Captain if he was going to the back to engage in some conflict resolution with a passenger?

And, by the way, I worked for the airline in question before my current gig.
 
^^^ Hell no. :) Especially in the days of everyone being quick to record video and send it to social media, nothing good can come from it. Customer service managers, red coats, whatever you want to call them - they're trained to handle this stuff. Not us.

Sluggo63 said:
When stuff like this happens are the times that I feel extremely happy that there's nothing but boxes behind me.
Click to expand...

My airline had almost 1200 reports filed by pilots in 2019 for passenger disturbances. There aren't a lot of reasons a report is required to be filed, and pilots being averse to paperwork as much as we are - you've gotta believe those situations weren't exactly minor!
 
Sluggo63 said:
Ok... I'll let the "real" airline pilots speak up here.
Click to expand...

Could even be set up as a survey I suppose. I'll be interested to see the responses and how common / uncommon that is.

And, by the way, I worked for the airline in question before my current gig.
Click to expand...

Did you intend that with some irony? Sorry I just had to ask given the context of this thread.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I have seen it happen and is why I brought it up. As noted by @Tarheelpilot and @Larry in TN the Captain is PIC and has ultimate authority and it is up to him/her. Sometimes that can be used help more peacefully resolve a problem than calling LEOs. And yes, hauling human beings is a different set of responsibilities than hauling inanimate objects.
Click to expand...
Hardly anything good happens IMO. You remember that video where the AA passenger got kicked off and the CA was just standing outside the cockpit door like a doofus (sorry @kayoh190 !) Just stay inside! In that video, he looked more complacent rather than trying to deescalate the situation. The goal is not to make it on YouTube. If the captain tries to go back and deescalate the situation, he’s going to have a bad time.

 
jordane93 said:
Hardly anything good happens IMO. You remember that video where the AA passenger got kicked off and the CA was just standing outside the cockpit door like a doofus (sorry @kayoh190 !)
Click to expand...

Ha! It was even worse than that - he was signaling that two people were getting off, and people thought he was flashing a 'peace out' sign. As bad as the regular media is, social media is even worse when it comes to making assumptions first and asking questions later. The only time you'll ever see me in uniform on social media is when a kid comes up to the flight deck, and I intend to keep it that way!
 
Sluggo63 said:
Would you, as a Captain, get out of your seat and go to the back in order to resolve a dispute with an unruly passenger (whether at the gate or airborne)? If you were an FO, what would you tell your Captain if he was going to the back to engage in some conflict resolution with a passenger?
Click to expand...

Of course back in the day Captains on ships carried a firearm to act as law enforcement. This was apparently more common on airplanes into the early 60s, I believe primarily to protect the mail. But even today the trained Captains and FO's can carry firearms and I presume have some LEO powers in that connection.

I can't remember if the people called in the Dao case were carrying firearms. I don't think they were.
 
Palmpilot said:
Given the power of Internet searches, it's easy to find anecdotal evidence of excessive force on the part of law enforcement officers, but I think it's the exception rather than the rule.
Click to expand...

It’s this mentality that allows it. Seriously if it’s even 1 in 100 times it’s a breach of what the public expects and demands of someone given the power to kill on the spot with no recourse.

Way better odds than the lottery is NOT good. No matter how one sugar coats it.

ANY tendency toward misuse of force should be an instant firing and ban from the job. Period. Full stop. Treat the job like it’s as important (and lethal) as it truly is.

This goes along with my oft stated opinion that the job should be paid like any other lethal job (Doctors) and should not have special protections for personal liability. Buying “malpractice” insurance should come from that big paycheck.

Put a monetary incentive behind pushing out hot heads who can’t control their adrenaline dumps and it’s fixed very very rapidly.
 
denverpilot said:
It’s this mentality that allows it.
Click to expand...
Hogwash. Saying that excessive use of force is the exception rather than the rule does NOT equal saying that it's acceptable when it happens. My ONLY point is that it's not common enough, especially in the airline context, to make the case that the airline should have foreseen what happened to Dr. Dao.
 
Palmpilot said:
Hogwash. Saying that excessive use of force is the exception rather than the rule does NOT equal saying that it's acceptable when it happens. My ONLY point is that it's not common enough, especially in the airline context, to make the case that the airline should have foreseen what happened to Dr. Dao.
Click to expand...

There should be ZERO exceptions to the rules when it comes to use of force, deadly or not. Fire ANY “officer” who doesn’t get that message. Today. Good bye.

I said this was going to be a problem decades ago when I was a Sheriff’s dispatcher. You can’t maintain the public trust if this is not NON-negotiable.

I wasn’t speaking to the “airline context” other than NOBODY, airline or otherwise should EVER expect an officer who can’t control his temper - EVER. That should not be the expectation even in a MINORITY of cases. Because it should be an instant firing in a trusted role. And lifetime ban from said roles.
 
Sluggo63 said:
What rule are you speaking about that there should be no exceptions to?
Click to expand...

“The exception to the rule...” that some “officers” can’t control themselves. There should be no exceptions to that rule. Fired.

We are in the middle of a coverup of “officers” (note the quotation marks, people without honor do not get called officer) here in Denver (Aurora) where an officer was stone cold DRUNK IN A CRUISER in broad daylight and his honorless buddies covered it up, two chiefs have refused to do anything to him, and all “officers” involved made sure that no evidence was gathered that could be used for prosecution.

It’s shameful, disgusting, crap... and needs to stop.
 
denverpilot said:
“The exception to the rule...” that some “officers” can’t control themselves. There should be no exceptions to that rule. Fired.

We are in the middle of a coverup of “officers” (note the quotation marks, people without honor do not get called officer) here in Denver (Aurora) where an officer was stone cold DRUNK IN A CRUISER in broad daylight and his honorless buddies covered it up, two chiefs have refused to do anything to him, and all “officers” involved made sure that no evidence was gathered that could be used for prosecution.

It’s shameful, disgusting, crap... and needs to stop.
Click to expand...

In cases of abuse, more than firing needs to happen. They need to go to jail. An officer driving drunk should be charged just like anyone else.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top