Turbulence and IFR training

Bonchie

Bonchie

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
1,505
Display Name
Display name:
Bonchie
Went up for my 2nd lesson Saturday (first was in the sim).

2pm, hot, and got banged around the whole time. I honestly felt like stabalizing climbs/decents at a given FPM while holding a given speed was nearly impossible. It'll come with time I guess but I couldn't help but notice how exponentially easier it was to do these exercises when we'd get a few seconds of smooth air.

Did you guys avoid these kinds of conditions when training or did you go up in them because you need to learn to manage the plane while bouncing off the roof?
 
I went up in them because that's all we get in winter in New England. Being properly trimmed will mitigate some of it since that will cause the plane to generally come back to the same altitude it was at before the bump but you may still get bounded around good.

Pilot induced oscillation can happen at altitude, where you're trying to correct for small deviations and making them worse as a result. Don't chase the needles, rather make deliberate corrections in heading and altitude

How much deviation were you seeing in the altitude/heading?
 
airheadpenguin said:
I went up in them because that's all we get in winter in New England. Being properly trimmed will mitigate some of it since that will cause the plane to generally come back to the same altitude it was at before the bump but you may still get bounded around good.

Pilot induced oscillation can happen at altitude, where you're trying to correct for small deviations and making them worse as a result. Don't chase the needles, rather make deliberate corrections in heading and altitude

How much deviation were you seeing in the altitude/heading?
Click to expand...

It just depended. I generally was able to hold my altitude within 75 feet. Headings would be a problem if I got too slow on my crosscheck.

Main thing that seemed like "how is this even possible" was trying to hold a certain FPM/speed while climbing/descending. Every bump would make the VSI go crazy or we'd move from one area where my current power and trim settings worked for a few seconds, and then suddenly it'd be way off after the next bump and we'd be descending above speed instead of climbing at 300FPM at my given speed.

I know it'll all come with time.
 
Last edited:
If the air is that bumpy you won't hold speed altitude etc. in a light plane. Stay trimmed as best you can and make corrections if you really start to rise or fall. If you try to trim or make power adjustment for every 50' deviation you will be worn out in 30min. The plane may rise and fall but keep the average on the assigned altitude. :D


The fun comes when flying th ILS in that level of convection.
 
Two things help: learn your power settings for each configuration. Write them down and use them! And second, when it's bouncy, slowing down a little bit really helps.
 
I let the plane do its thing. The more you try to correct, the worse it gets. Let the plane ride the waves.
 
I like to practice in the bumps,so when you go actual ,you will be used to it. You don't want to be doing an approach in actual,and getting nervous because it gets bumpy.
 
Bonchie said:
Went up for my 2nd lesson Saturday (first was in the sim).
Click to expand...
IMO, going up and having to deal with the bumps in the first few instrument lessons in the air makes about as much sense as a brand new student pilot being exposed to 15 KT direct crosswinds at the same stage of primary training.

IOW, none whatsoever.
 
I keep trying to get some bumps. I've scheduled most of my lessons in late afternoon for that, at an airport around 4000 foot mountains.

And it keeps not working. Even with an AIRMET TANGO in effect, it was smooth as a baby's bottom at 6000, and only the mildest barely perceptible turbulence over the foothills on the GPS approach. Even with the wind blowing at 15 knots.

I do get the occasional 200 FPM rises and sinks over the mountains, but they are smooth and gradual, and really don't challenge the scan much.
 
Me entire instrument training was at night. Smooth flying.
 
Hank S said:
Two things help: learn your power settings for each configuration. Write them down and use them! And second, when it's bouncy, slowing down a little bit really helps.
Click to expand...

This^^^


Are you flying with George?
 
MAKG1 said:
I keep trying to get some bumps. I've scheduled most of my lessons in late afternoon for that, at an airport around 4000 foot mountains.

And it keeps not working. Even with an AIRMET TANGO in effect, it was smooth as a baby's bottom at 6000, and only the mildest barely perceptible turbulence over the foothills on the GPS approach. Even with the wind blowing at 15 knots.

I do get the occasional 200 FPM rises and sinks over the mountains, but they are smooth and gradual, and really don't challenge the scan much.
Click to expand...

Where are you flying into? I've found that on warm days, the valley tends to be bumpier, I'm assuming because the ground isn't as homogenous, and you get bounced around a bit on approach as you cross over a walmart parking lot, a grassy field, highway, industrial area, back to grass, etc.
 
uncreative said:
Where are you flying into? I've found that on warm days, the valley tends to be bumpier, I'm assuming because the ground isn't as homogenous, and you get bounced around a bit on approach as you cross over a walmart parking lot, a grassy field, highway, industrial area, back to grass, etc.
Click to expand...

KRHV. There is a fricken' mall under short final. I should get lots of lift from that, but I don't. The GPS approach crosses a 1000 foot ridge and several golf courses.
 
Last edited:
The Law of Effect applies -- if the training experience is painful, the trainee will not learn and may not return for more. So, I will often cancel IR training flights when turbulence will make them merely exercises in masochism. That's when we work on ground training for the oral or sim training.
 
Ron Levy said:
The Law of Effect applies -- if the training experience is painful, the trainee will not learn and may not return for more. So, I will often cancel IR training flights when turbulence will make them merely exercises in masochism. That's when we work on ground training for the oral or sim training.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
midlifeflyer said:
IMO, going up and having to deal with the bumps in the first few instrument lessons in the air makes about as much sense as a brand new student pilot being exposed to 15 KT direct crosswinds at the same stage of primary training.

IOW, none whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Bonchie said:
It just depended. I generally was able to hold my altitude within 75 feet. Headings would be a problem if I got too slow on my crosscheck.

Main thing that seemed like "how is this even possible" was trying to hold a certain FPM/speed while climbing/descending. Every bump would make the VSI go crazy or we'd move from one area where my current power and trim settings worked for a few seconds, and then suddenly it'd be way off after the next bump and we'd be descending above speed instead of climbing at 300FPM at my given speed.

I know it'll all come with time.
Click to expand...

First, these are your first few lessons, it will get better and easier with more experience.
Second, pick a better time for your lessons, like mornings or evenings, at least until you have a little more experience.
Third, remember, pitch+power=performance.
If you have full power and pitch to the climb attitude, you'll get the same performance each time, assuming somewhat calm conditions.
I assume you instructor wants you to climb at say 500fpm, but in rough bumpy conditions you'll have to settle for averaging it out. The VSI will vary up and down, but if you have the power and pitch at least close, you'll get the rate you want over time.
Try not to chase the ASI and VSI, that only makes you work harder. On the smoother days you'll be able to nail the ASI and VSI as your instructor wants you to.
Keep at it, you'll get it.
 
We went up in chop in the sense that it's nearly always bumpy to some degree around Denver. But if there was a ton of virga and/or if my or other instructors reported sh**ty conditions, we skipped.

There is no point in going up and not being able to learn much. But yes, some chop and even light or moderate turbulence worthwhile at least once because there is a 100% chance that we'll all encounter turbulence in the the course of our non-training flying. I have always been told that in turbulence, you maintain aircraft control but don't overcontrol it. Ripping the wings off busts PTS too. :D
 
I went up yesterday no wind on the ground not to warm, but the thermals kicked my butt. It was all I could do to keep it within +/- 100. I am about a week away from a check ride, it just makes its so much harder, you have no time to set anything up cause your constantly trying to manage altitude here in the hills of NY on sunny days.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top