Training someone who surrendered their certificate?

[deltaindia]

20 years ago, METAR and TAF did not exist in the US and neither did Class A, B, C, D or E airspace. ....
enough that has changed over the course of 20 years that it will probably take more than an afternoon of flipping though a book.

The airspace designations did exist 20 years ago, actually. I remember because I began my training in the Summer of 1994 and recall my instructor going over the New York sectional and mentioning that the airspace names "recently changed". METARs and TAFs also existed in 1994.

Aside from that, the CFI should absolutely encourage the pilot to go through the current PTS and relevant FAA handbooks (flying, aeronautical knowledge).

Out of curiosity, has he tried looking up his name in registry.faa.gov to see if/how his pilot info is reflected?

 

[RussR]

OTOH, if he intends to make demands that the CFI is going to get headaches over, I would take a pass.

I don't think so. We flew once this week. He's actually a really nice guy, and humble about the whole thing. So I don't see any problems there. Seems willing to do what it takes.

Out of curiosity, has he tried looking up his name in registry.faa.gov to see if/how his pilot info is reflected?

No pilot info is in there. His name shows up because he got a medical, but no actual ratings (or former ratings) show up.

 

[poadeleted20]

Ron, hiding was not my thought, suggestion, nor intent. Of course everyone on the airport will know. They already do, likely.

But it might be the cleanest route from point A to point B given the nit picking of bureaucrats
As many have pointed out:
1. He he doesn't have a written to the current standard.
2. He hasn't met the current PTS.
By the time he does those two things about all that is left is the cross countries and burning through the hours.

Why spend the money to do the XC and fly 40 hours if the applicant is ready to pass the test with half that or less?

Might be my aged brain but were I he, that is the route I would start on whilst OK City contemplates it's navel and decides what of his previous experience will apply - or not.

It all applies -- that's established in the regs. The only issue is documenting it, and based on what it says in FAA Order 8900.1 about lost logbooks, that's pretty much done.

 

[poadeleted20]

No pilot info is in there. His name shows up because he got a medical, but no actual ratings (or former ratings) show up.

...because the were surrendered. However, all of that information is available in his pilot records, a copy of which can be obtained on CD for (IIRC) $10 -- including all the 8710-1's he ever submitted, which are considered acceptable on their face as proof of aeronautical experience documented therein.

 

[Lindberg]

The FAA previously issued him a pilot certificate. I don't think they're now going to argue he didn't earn it.

 

[poadeleted20]

The FAA previously issued him a pilot certificate. I don't think they're now going to argue he didn't earn it.

I agree, but if he got it over 20 years ago, he might have done so without meeting all of today's 61.109 requirements. That means he will need to document any of the current requirements which weren't requirements when he got his certificate, and that might be a bit complicated without his old logbook. However, the only requirement I can think of which was ever less than today's requirements as far back as 1969 is the 3 hours of flight training on flying solely by reference to the instruments, and any shortage there will probably be covered during the test prep for the new practical test. So, I'm not seeing this as a big deal as long as the applicant has the FAA data package including the old 8710-1's.

 

[RotorAndWing]

The FAA previously issued him a pilot certificate. I don't think they're now going to argue he didn't earn it.

The best way to handle this is to discuss with the DPE who will be giving the ride on what the applicant needs. If the DPE is unsure he has contacts to get him the correct information.

Relying on internet "experts" is going to get you nowhere. Go to the source.

 

[NoHeat]

There is a DPE near here who often does checkrides for airline pilots who have lost their certs. Typically for alcohol or drugs.

The pilots first take all their written tests elsewhere, then travel here and stay a week or so for intense training and rapid-fire checkrides. An instructor gives them just enough lessons in a 172 or Arrow. All their previous logbook hours count, so they don't need a lot more dual or solo hours.

After a few days they do the private and IR checkrides back-to back the same day. Then more lessons. Then the commercial and (if desired) ATP checkrides back-to back a few days later. A quick but exhausting experience for the pilot, who emerges with all the certs again.

 

[poadeleted20]

There is a DPE near here who often does checkrides for airline pilots who have lost their certs. Typically for alcohol or drugs.

The pilots first take all their written tests elsewhere, then travel here and stay a week or so for intense training and rapid-fire checkrides. An instructor gives them just enough lessons in a 172 or Arrow. All their previous logbook hours count, so they don't need a lot more dual or solo hours.

That's the normal procedure. However, in this case, the applicant lost his old logbook. That complicates the problem of showing the applicant meets the requirements of 14 CFR 61.109 for the PPL ride. It appears this applicant has followed the guidance of FAA Order 8900.1 on lost logbooks, but there still may be some questions about a few of the detailed requirements that cannot be answered without actually seeing all the documentation. That is why it would be prudent to discuss this with the DPE involved ahead of time so there are no surprises on practical test day.

 

[gismo]

No longer having to comply with FARs (such as reporting change of address or motor vehicle action)

Does surrendering your certificate void those reporting requirements? I agree it should but don't know if it legally does.

 

[poadeleted20]

Does surrendering your certificate void those reporting requirements? I agree it should but don't know if it legally does.

It does -- you are no longer a certificate holder, and those rules only apply to the holders of a certificate. For example, the relevant paragraph of 61.15 regarding reporting motor vehicle actions begins, "(e) Each person holding a certificate issued under this part..." Surrender all your certificates issued under Part 61, and that no longer applies.