Tower freaked me out for no reason

A

anonymous

Guest
Crossed over XXX VOR inbound to YYY airport. Called the tower. Tower says "cross midfield and join the downwind, and by the way, there is a TFR covering a 3 mile radius of XXX VOR which you just violated".

Turns out, tower was wrong. TFR was for parachute jumping at a football game, 3 mile radius of a point some miles away from the VOR on a particular radial. Guess they'd missed the offset from the center of the VOR somehow when they read it to themselves.

Rest of the approach was highly unfocussed, nearly forgot to put down the gear, and I fully expected getting a number to call when I rolled out. Second guessed myself repeatedly until I was home and able to look the actual TFR up on the computer.
 
Wow, it would tend to distract. One of the benefits of ads-b and xm is the display of TFR's right on the map. Being able to see TFR's relative to my position is helpful to increase confidence in situations such as this.
 
Man that sucks. Glad to hear it went ok though.

What things would you do differently next time? Teach us stuff.
 
steingar said:
Controller should have left that for after you landed. There is no point to spooling up a pilot in flight. No point at all.
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this. even if the pilot did bust through the TFR whats the point of telling him that in the air. You should call the tower back and tell the sup about it
 
anonymous said:
Crossed over XXX VOR inbound to YYY airport. Called the tower. Tower says "cross midfield and join the downwind, and by the way, there is a TFR covering a 3 mile radius of XXX VOR which you just violated".

Turns out, tower was wrong. TFR was for parachute jumping at a football game, 3 mile radius of a point some miles away from the VOR on a particular radial. Guess they'd missed the offset from the center of the VOR somehow when they read it to themselves.

Rest of the approach was highly unfocussed, nearly forgot to put down the gear, and I fully expected getting a number to call when I rolled out. Second guessed myself repeatedly until I was home and able to look the actual TFR up on the computer.
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When did you realize he was wrong?
 
steingar said:
Controller should have left that for after you landed. There is no point to spooling up a pilot in flight. No point at all.
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Completely agree. In fact, if that happened to me, I’d call the tower manager after the fact and, constructively, note that telling a pilot something in the middle of the landing process like that is a safety-of-flight issue. I’d also note in this case that the controller was wrong about the TFR, compounding the confusion.

I’ve called towers and Approach once or twice before and they’ve always been receptive to feedback - that’s presented in a factual, courteous, constructive way.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Completely agree. In fact, if that happened to me, I’d call the tower manager after the fact and, constructively, note that telling a pilot something in the middle of the landing process like that is a safety-of-flight issue. I’d also note in this case that the controller was wrong about the TFR, compounding the confusion.

I’ve called towers and Approach once or twice before and they’ve always been receptive to feedback - that’s presented in a factual, courteous, constructive way.
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^^^THIS^^^

I once called our local approach (its a combination of several class Cs in the area known as "great lakes approach") for a similar situation. While on approach in solid IMC, they interrupted and simply said, "Copy this number", then gave me a phone number. I thought I'd just gotten a brasher. It wasn't until after I landed and called that I realized it was just the number to cancel IFR. After gathering my wits and calming down, I called back and asked for a supervisor. He pulled the tape, then he AND the controller called with an apology. They both said I was right, that it did sound like a brasher. We all ended the call on a friendly basis.
 
1. One way to deal with this, is to get in trouble SO MUCH, you develop a tolerance...

2. Another way is to realize “controller” is a euphemism, they’re advisors. Don’t get me wrong, they’re great, smart, different and useful perspective, I personally like them, but...

3. They don’t screw up much, BUT, and this one is a big BUT, when they do, it’s YOUR butt up their. Being able to compartmentalize anything that comes across your headset from them is essential. Just is.

Listen to what they say, apply sound decision making, press. Be offended later. It ain’t easy, I got there using option one for what it’s worth! I’m VERY good at begging forgiveness too...
 
anonymous said:
Tower says "cross midfield and join the downwind, and by the way, there is a TFR covering a 3 mile radius of XXX VOR which you just violated".

Turns out, tower was wrong. TFR was for parachute jumping at a football game, 3 mile radius of a point some miles away from the VOR on a particular radial. Guess they'd missed the offset from the center of the VOR somehow when they read it to themselves.
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Fu_k that controller. Call the tower, ask to speak to a supervisor. Explain to them what occurred.

First off, there is no point in saying that when they did. Should have waited til after you landed.

Also, this person sounds like an awful controller, with no situational awareness. A TFR on a 3-mile radius on a VOR seems like an unlikely occurrence, unless the VOR was on the airfield and there was some reason for a TFR at the airfield. Otherwise, it seems unlikely you'd have a TFR right AT a VOR. The case of several miles away on a radial seems much more likely.
 
You and the other anonymous guy who let his DPE distract him need to start a support groups for the easily rattled.

Now do I support the controller for either his error in the TFR coverage area or his timing in notifying you? Absolutely not! He could probably use some remedial training. But as a pilot, if this rattled you, I would be concerned how you’d handle an actual emergency.
 
Here is the issue I see; you didn’t do a proper preflight weather brief and planning or you would have known right then and there you hadn’t violated a TFR. Learn a lesson from this.
 
Clip4 said:
Here is the issue I see; you didn’t do a proper preflight weather brief and planning or you would have known right then and there you hadn’t violated a TFR. Learn a lesson from this.
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Well, but for those emergency pop- up tfr's....
 
SkyDog58 said:
You and the other anonymous guy who let his DPE distract him need to start a support groups for the easily rattled.
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IMHO that seems a bit harsh. I suspect many of us adopt a sterile cockpit approach when landing, especially on an instrument approach so we don’t get distracted. Seems to me a situation like this - whether one reacts with “Oops - did I screw up?!?” or “FU - that was wrong to do now” - is more distracting than a right-seater asking about the game yesterday. Yeah - we should learn to handle distractions but let’s be real here.

Just me…
 
I'm thinking that controller said that to you, then his supervisor told him he was wrong and the guy was too embarrassed to apologize. 99% of controllers a good at what they do. When one is a jerk, or makes a mistake, you can't let it affect you, you need to move on.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Well, but for those emergency pop- up tfr's....
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Most emergency TFRs are to keep news crews from interfering with emergency operations. If you really didn’t notice the emergency equipment with all their lights on around the perimeter of a major gas leak, the chemical plant on fire, the smoke from a large forest or brush fire, the buildings destroyed with smoke and on fire from an earth quake, or the airliner crash site while flying Visual Flight Rules and didn’t think the FAA issued a TFR for that. The TFR violation isn’t your real problem.
 
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PaulS said:
I'm thinking that controller said that to you, then his supervisor told him he was wrong and the guy was too embarrassed to apologize...
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This happens ALL the time. As a supervisor, I'M the one who answers the phone and my usual response is: "Yep, I've already beat the controller around the head and shoulders." One of the reasons you didn't get an apology from the controller may very well be because the supervisor told him/her, "shut up, don't make a bad situation worse."

I wasn't there, don't know the particulars, but I just wanted people to know that supervisors DO correct their controllers and less is more when it comes to keying up that mic.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
IMHO that seems a bit harsh. I suspect many of us adopt a sterile cockpit approach when landing, especially on an instrument approach so we don’t get distracted. Seems to me a situation like this - whether one reacts with “Oops - did I screw up?!?” or “FU - that was wrong to do now” - is more distracting than a right-seater asking about the game yesterday. Yeah - we should learn to handle distractions but let’s be real here.

Just me…
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A pilot needs to focus on the task at hand and put any other BS on the back burner until on the ground. I have has students lessons go to hell because they mentally focus on the one thing they did wrong. By worrying about the possible TFR, that can snowball into something worse, but that is something the pilot needs to focus on.
 
Not that I ever make mistakes but, one day I might. In that unlikely event, I hope the controller cuts me some slack so I cut them slack when they make mistakes. Pay it forward as the kids say.
 
TommyG said:
A pilot needs to focus on the task at hand and put any other BS on the back burner until on the ground. I have has students lessons go to hell because they mentally focus on the one thing they did wrong. By worrying about the possible TFR, that can snowball into something worse, but that is something the pilot needs to focus on.
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Don’t misunderstand me: I totally agree AND know it’s still easy (for me) to be distracted despite knowing I should do otherwise. I think telling someone who reacted quite commonly should “…start a support groups (sic) for the easily rattled” is still harsh, in my opinion
 
fasteddie said:
Fu_k that controller. Call the tower, ask to speak to a supervisor. Explain to them what occurred.

First off, there is no point in saying that when they did. Should have waited til after you landed.

Also, this person sounds like an awful controller, with no situational awareness. A TFR on a 3-mile radius on a VOR seems like an unlikely occurrence, unless the VOR was on the airfield and there was some reason for a TFR at the airfield. Otherwise, it seems unlikely you'd have a TFR right AT a VOR. The case of several miles away on a radial seems much more likely.
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Said actual tfr was on a radial x miles from the VOR that had a 3 mile radius. There's a chance it was misheard. Regardless both pilot and controller were wrong. Controller could have helped the pilot avoid the tfr if there was dialogue prior to that. If the tfr was busted, notify on ground. Pilot was caught unaware that the tfr even existed at all. So even if it wasn't violated, the shock of the tfr being there was real.
 
fasteddie said:
... A TFR on a 3-mile radius on a VOR seems like an unlikely occurrence, unless the VOR was on the airfield and there was some reason for a TFR at the airfield. Otherwise, it seems unlikely you'd have a TFR right AT a VOR. The case of several miles away on a radial seems much more likely.
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VORs are airplane magnets and I could easily see two aircraft having a midair over a vor and a subsequent TFR being imposed. That being said, the controller should have waited until the aircraft had safely landed before commenting.
 
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