Tower Closings?

nddons said:
Why do you need two towered airports for your XCs?
Click to expand...

You are right. I only have to do 3 take-off and landings at a towered airport, and it doesn't have to be during the XC. If I have to fly somewhere, it might as well be to towered airports for practice. My instructor said standard XC for the school is KHXF-KUES-KOSH-KHXF.
 
comanchepilot said:
Some enterprising Fox News reporter needs to gather up all of the threatened closures and then come to the conclusion that the threatened closures total 600 billion or some such figure.

And Ron, really, you know better. While they cannot overspend their allocated budgets they can BORROW from them because- there is no federal budget.

Absent a federal budget there is no budget to overspend - everyone us operating on a continuing resolution from the 2007-2008 budget - with a 3% increase every year unless they get a special allocation. You are telling me that a reduction of zero percent in the FAA tower operation budget requires that they close 600 control towers? Really?

What bull.
Click to expand...

There are appropriations bills, and those cannot be legally overspent, as I understand it.

Given that small airports tend to be busiest on weekends, maybe it would make more sense to close a larger number of towers, but only on weekdays.
 
If we didn't have a tower here it would be complete chaos :crazy: Better not happen
 
SkyHog said:
LOL, they're gonna shut down KINT and KHKY? Oh the humanity!!!

That means like 10 planes a day are going to need to self announce!

On the other hand, KJQF is gonna be rough without a tower.

Isn't KFTG extremely busy??
Click to expand...
On days we fly Young Eagles, possibly 100-150 operations. Any weekday? Maybe 10. Nice clear sunny weekend? Let's say 20-25. The tower was scheduled to be u funded about 3 years ago but some political pressure (trips to DC) resulted in a reprieve.

Should be interesting, since the airport is positioning itself as the colorado Spaceport. Can't do the UAV testing without tower....*evil laugh*
 
How would you suggest staffing such installations?

Palmpilot said:
There are appropriations bills, and those cannot be legally overspent, as I understand it.

Given that small airports tend to be busiest on weekends, maybe it would make more sense to close a larger number of towers, but only on weekdays.
Click to expand...
 
willywildes said:
Please. a 85 billion cut on 3 plus trillion budget. A little over two percent cut. You have to be joking. I'm not scared bring it.
Click to expand...

Um, a trillion is a THOUSAND billion.

Cutting $85 billion from a $3.5 trillion budget is less than a rounding error. They could eliminate forty-five F-35s and save more.
 
Last edited:
ktup-flyer said:
If we didn't have a tower here it would be complete chaos :crazy: Better not happen
Click to expand...
You'd be surprised at how many airports can actually operate without a tower as long as the pilots follow the rules of flying into an uncontrolled field.

As long as your airport doesn't have too many jet-jockeys the flow of piston powered planes can run smoothly upwards of 400 operations per day.

It's not until you get the jets involved that it becomes a problem since they don't believe that they need to follow the rules of flying into an uncontrolled field.
All too often the only calls you'll hear from the jets is that they are in a straight in approach to runway XX and if there's anyone in the pattern to advise them.

Which airport is it that you believe will become chaotic if there's no tower?
 
flav8r said:
You'd be surprised at how many airports can actually operate without a tower as long as the pilots follow the rules of flying into an uncontrolled field.

As long as your airport doesn't have too many jet-jockeys the flow of piston powered planes can run smoothly upwards of 400 operations per day.

It's not until you get the jets involved that it becomes a problem since they don't believe that they need to follow the rules of flying into an uncontrolled field.

All too often the only calls you'll hear from the jets is that they are in a straight in approach to runway XX and if there's anyone in the pattern to advise them.
Click to expand...

What rule does that violate?
 
flav8r said:
You'd be surprised at how many airports can actually operate without a tower as long as the pilots follow the rules of flying into an uncontrolled field.

As long as your airport doesn't have too many jet-jockeys the flow of piston powered planes can run smoothly upwards of 400 operations per day.

It's not until you get the jets involved that it becomes a problem since they don't believe that they need to follow the rules of flying into an uncontrolled field.
All too often the only calls you'll hear from the jets is that they are in a straight in approach to runway XX and if there's anyone in the pattern to advise them.

Which airport is it that you believe will become chaotic if there's no tower?
Click to expand...

So, sequester = renewed usage of ATITAPA? :goofy::D
 
roncachamp said:
What rule does that violate?
Click to expand...
Etiquette, protocol, common decency towards your fellow pilots, safety and the list goes on and on and on.

There shouldn't be a single pilot on this board that was taught to approach an uncontrolled field by making
a single call out that your on a straight in final to runway XX.

Or as Stan put it "ATITAPA".
 
Last edited:
flav8r said:
You'd be surprised at how many airports can actually operate without a tower as long as the pilots follow the rules of flying into an uncontrolled field.

As long as your airport doesn't have too many jet-jockeys the flow of piston powered planes can run smoothly upwards of 400 operations per day.

It's not until you get the jets involved that it becomes a problem since they don't believe that they need to follow the rules of flying into an uncontrolled field.
All too often the only calls you'll hear from the jets is that they are in a straight in approach to runway XX and if there's anyone in the pattern to advise them.

Which airport is it that you believe will become chaotic if there's no tower?
Click to expand...

KTUP. I would say about 60% of the ops here are jet/turboprop. We regularly get everything from C150's to Challenger 600's and occasionally (2 or 3 a week on average) get all airliners up to the 744 for scrapping.
 
willywildes said:
Please. a 85 billion cut on 3 plus trillion budget. A little over two percent cut. You have to be joking. I'm not scared bring it.
Click to expand...

Of course you aren't scared. Your comments sound just like the Tea Party masses that are gathering around the castle with pitch forks and torches chanting 'burn baby burn!'

What you don't realize is that while the cuts/reductions are tiny, it is the method that our government is executing those cuts that will cause the damage and not one dang thing is being done to address the real spending problem.

I've got news for you....contrary to the way it has been portrayed in he media, the President wants sequestration a whole lot more than he is letting on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Jay Honeck said:
Cutting $85 billion from a $3.5 trillion budget is less than a rounding error. They could eliminate forty-five F-35s and save more.
Click to expand...
Exactly.....but no one is even considering killing the program or any of the other high dollar less than effective weapon systems in the works.
 
DavidWhite said:
My home drone will be a **** show if the tower closes.
Click to expand...

GTU could get pretty hairy with all the corporate and turboprops who would scare everyone out of pattern flying straight in all the time.. plus, I can't see Georgetown really keeping the airport around if it goes uncontrolled.. The property that airport is sitting on is only a few years away from being worth 10s of millions at Austin's growth rate..
 
Fearless Tower said:
FY has 12, but when all of the cuts take place in the second half, you only have 6 to spread them out.
Click to expand...

And there is absolutely no reward nor benefit to have NOT spent your full six month allotment in the first six months.
 
jhausch said:
Since no entitlement programs are affected, I can't help but shake my head at how much the Republicans have been out maneuvered here.

Apologies in advance for the racial slur in this Blazing Saddles clip, but the sequestration is best explained by watching this starting at 2:44

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upvZdVK913I&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Click to expand...

Entitlement is such a weak word.. Falsely dividing and Falsely describing the real costs we face as a society and as a self governing democracy.

The real problem is we value our false dichotomies more than we value actually addressing things.
 
supernovae said:
Entitlement is such a weak word.. Falsely dividing and Falsely describing the real costs we face as a society and as a self governing democracy.

The real problem is we value our false dichotomies more than we value actually addressing things.
Click to expand...

I'll use a different word. That's fine.

Obama outsmarted the Republicans by exempting non discretionary spending from the sequestration.

Your interpretation of my statement is as fair as me accusing you of falsely assuming there is neither fraud nor waste in the "real costs we face as a society and as a self governing democracy"
 
flightwriter said:
Here's the list of possible tower closures released earlier today by the FAA:

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Facilities_Could_Be_Closed.pdf
Click to expand...

I've wondered about the need for several of those towers for some time. My (uncontrolled) home field seems to get more traffic than some of the nearby towered fields. The controllers i've met from local towers have all been friendly and seem like good people so i'd hate to see them without jobs... But I'm pretty sure we could get along fine without them. I would miss the TRACONs associated with some of the towers though.
 
I'm going to quit addressing the bigger picture to stay on topic. Pleased to see so many excellent comments from folks that dig behind the posturing and look at what's really happening. We need more voters like y'all!

Dave
 
supernovae said:
GTU could get pretty hairy with all the corporate and turboprops who would scare everyone out of pattern flying straight in all the time.. plus, I can't see Georgetown really keeping the airport around if it goes uncontrolled.. The property that airport is sitting on is only a few years away from being worth 10s of millions at Austin's growth rate..
Click to expand...

I flew at GTU back in the good old days(~2001) and it did get hairy sometimes. But really the biggest problem I had was when a CFI in another plane decided to cut me(a solo student) off on final. The Jets and Turboprops seemed to be much more safety aware even when they were using the 'big' runway and the rest of us were on the crosswind runway.
 
jhausch said:
I'll use a different word. That's fine.

Obama outsmarted the Republicans by exempting non discretionary spending from the sequestration.

Your interpretation of my statement is as fair as me accusing you of falsely assuming there is neither fraud nor waste in the "real costs we face as a society and as a self governing democracy"
Click to expand...

Never said it was perfect.. we got A lot to fix.. but I'm also keenly aware that entitlement is usually spoken in a politically pejorative sense.

I also don't think the republicans really don't want to touch em either..
 
It will probably lead to horror stories on major media outlets, and then a call for user fees.

I'd rather do without.

Ryan
 
I think most of the towers at non-carrier airports could be closed without significant effect.
I've been based at non-towered airports that were much busier than mant of the towered airports I've flown from.

Also, there are many towers out there that are open 24hrs for no discernable reason.
 
Finding those who only want to work part-time wouldn't be a problem, it would be finding those who don't expect to be paid full-time.;)

kkoran said:
ATC isn't generally a part-time occupation. Finding controllers willing to work only on weekends might be an issue.
Click to expand...
 
No CT and airline traffic, what's the big deal? :D

Hibbing Traffic, Flagship 1645, taking off RWY 13, departing south east, Hibbing.

391204_487601114587191_1994595683_n.jpg
 
kkoran said:
ATC isn't generally a part-time occupation. Finding controllers willing to work only on weekends might be an issue.
Click to expand...

I'm sort of assuming that this would only be a temporary situation, but if it did turn out to be permanent, one way of dealing with it would be to have some of the controllers work at a GA field on the weekends, and work at a nearby airline airport for enough weekdays to add up to a full time position.
 
MSPAviator said:
No CT and airline traffic, what's the big deal? :D

Hibbing Traffic, Flagship 1645, taking off RWY 13, departing south east, Hibbing.
Click to expand...

Horizon flies into KPUW several times a day. No tower. Never been one there. They just come up on 122.8 like the rest of us. No big deal.

Now, if they shut down the tower at KSEA, oh boy that would be a mess. :D
 
PilotAlan said:
I think most of the towers at non-carrier airports could be closed without significant effect.
Click to expand...
Many towered airports that have scheduled carrier service close after 11pm and any carriers that have late arrivals land using the CTAF.
So I would venture to say that it depends more on traffic load versus type of aircraft.
 
Tower closings and the laying off of TSA ex-medicaid mommas can only be good portents for GA.
Send them all home.
Free the skies from the shackles of idiots.

Ah, I can only dream.
Common guys and gals - the reality is that the sequester does not cut spending. It merely lowers the slope of the annual growth in Federal spending by a half of a percent. They will still spend more in FY 2013 than they did in 2012 and they will spend more in 2014 and on and on until they trigger another Great Depression.

Fly as often as you can.
Keep popcorn on hand and watch the Titanic going down for the third time.
 
kkoran said:
ATC isn't generally a part-time occupation. Finding controllers willing to work only on weekends might be an issue.
Click to expand...

I don't believe there's a requirement that tower controllers be limited to one tower. Weekend tower could be staffed by the same folks that staff nearby fulltime tower.
 
Dr. O said:
...... They will still spend more in FY 2013 than they did in 2012 and they will spend more in 2014 and on and on until they trigger another Great Depression.

Fly as often as you can.
Keep popcorn on hand and watch the Titanic going down for the third time.
Click to expand...

Truer words were never spoken...
 
My training airport averages over 300 operations a day without a tower. I like the freedom.
 
roncachamp said:
I don't believe there's a requirement that tower controllers be limited to one tower. Weekend tower could be staffed by the same folks that staff nearby fulltime tower.
Click to expand...

Steven,

What is the FAA really planning to do as far as the actual controllers? Are they going to furlough just the controllers of the towers they are going to shut down, or are they doing what the DoD is (basically furloughing all employees one day per week for the rest of the FY)?

Seems like they could reduce any disruption to both pilots and the FAA employees by following the DoD model and reducing the operating hours of the towers.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
roncachamp said:
There is a very real danger here. If these towers are closed and operations continue without any problems it will demonstrate that these towers are not needed.
Click to expand...
That is actually a pretty accurate statement and one of the reasons that the DoD chose its one day a week furlough plan vs full time furlough of non-essential personnel. When every employee is furloughed one day per week, it is a lot more difficult to point the finger at specific positions and claim they are not necessary.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top