Tower Closings?

nddons said:
They should close Reagan National's tower. Make things sporting for the folks on each end of Pennsylvania avenue.
Click to expand...

Actually, I seem to recall that both American and United demonstrated that you don't need an operating control tower to land at DCA.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Originally Posted by roncachamp
There is a very real danger here. If these towers are closed and operations continue without any problems it will demonstrate that these towers are not needed




Fearless Tower said:
That is actually a pretty accurate statement and one of the reasons that the DoD chose its one day a week furlough plan vs full time furlough of non-essential personnel. When every employee is furloughed one day per week, it is a lot more difficult to point the finger at specific positions and claim they are not necessary.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...



Nice, honest observation and answer from a citizen who is employed by the government....


Now...... How do we cut out the waste and fraud?:dunno:
 
Doesn't bother me at all.

Out here in Western Kansas, there are no towers.

Terry
 
Terry said:
Doesn't bother me at all.

Out here in Western Kansas, there are no towers.

Terry
Click to expand...

There are plenty of towers in Texas, many of them laughably unnecessary. We call them "Prestige Towers".

If they all closed tomorrow, permanently, it it would take until Oshkosh for me to notice. And I will make forty or more flights between now and OSH.
 
We are based at Dallas Executive (KRBD), a contract CT on the list. It lies below the DFW shelf in one of the busiest airspaces in the world. It is designated as a class B reliever airport. As a class D, it is comforting to know that when I get a handoff from the D10 TRACON to the RBD CT on arrival, that they continue to keep me on radar and while separation in the class D airspace is not a responsibility of the CT, they do keep me aware of the traffic, most of which is just trying to stay clear of the DFW bravo just overhead while in transit. So losing this tower has me a little concerned about my own transit vertically through this space, both when departing and arriving, but especially on arrival in MVFR when the chances of close encounters with scud runners is high when I break out on approach. It also makes departure a nuisance because I need to contact TRACON from the ground to obtain my clearance, easy enough to do but they don't like the call unless you are holding short and ready to takeoff, and that is followed by a five to ten minute wait for release. This is something I do when the tower is not open, usually early in the morning when traffic is "light". If I have to do that in the day when there are hub complexes running at DFW & DAL, I honestly don't what kind of release delays to expect (hoping someone else on the board who routinely operates IFR from under the DFW bravo from an untowered airport might chime in here to give us a hint as to what we might expect).

So I guess my main concern from a safety perspective is the change from class D to class E in this extremely high volume airspace. I have flown into many of the other towered airports on the list here in Texas and I don't have the same concerns.

There is one that is not on the list because it doesn't have a tower, but it should have, and that is Austin Executive (KEDC). While the airport is not under a class B shelf, the approach to KEDC from the north and northwest crosses the flow to Austin Bergstrom and it gets very hairy when there is a southbound flow into KAUS so it's a similar situation to the one at KRBD and that is my point of reference for what to expect at Redbird. Not fun.
 
Last edited:
flav8r said:
Many towered airports that have scheduled carrier service close after 11pm and any carriers that have late arrivals land using the CTAF.
So I would venture to say that it depends more on traffic load versus type of aircraft.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. That's why I said most. Like Dallas Exec may need a tower, not due to operations numbers but due to airspace coordination issues.
But towers like that are the exception, not the rule. I stand by my statement that most non-carrier airport towers could be closed tomorrow without significant effect.

If an airport needs a tower to chase the kind of operations they want, then they can fund the controllers needed.
 
Fearless Tower said:
What is the FAA really planning to do as far as the actual controllers? Are they going to furlough just the controllers of the towers they are going to shut down, or are they doing what the DoD is (basically furloughing all employees one day per week for the rest of the FY)?
Click to expand...

Facilities that are to remain open will see part time furloughs of controllers.

Seems like they could reduce any disruption to both pilots and the FAA employees by following the DoD model and reducing the operating hours of the towers.
Click to expand...

These are executive branch agencies. The response to sequestration is designed to give maximum political advantage to the chief executive.
 
roncachamp said:
These are executive branch agencies. The response to sequestration is designed to give maximum political advantage to the chief executive.
Click to expand...

You say a little, but you said a lot! :D
 
KFTG closing - not a big deal

KBJC closing - bad idea, lots of jet traffic and helos in some of the most congested airspace in Colorado.

I tend to agree with one of the earlier posters, one accident/mid air at some of the busiest on this list will cause panic and probably a call for user fees. We are talking about the media who insert "flying without a flight plan" into the story after every small GA accident after all…

Just one Colorado aviator's .02 cents…
 
RyanShort1 said:
It will probably lead to horror stories on major media outlets, and then a call for user fees.

I'd rather do without.
Click to expand...

In the President's weekly address he stated that republicans would rather give tax breaks to users of private jets than to help solve the fiscal problem through tax reform. User fees and elimination of tax deductions for private jet owners is clearly in the sights.

roncachamp said:
These are executive branch agencies. The response to sequestration is designed to give maximum political advantage to the chief executive.
Click to expand...

Correct.

Fearless Tower said:
So are the controllers at the towers identified for closing going to get full furloughs?
Click to expand...

A fair number are contract towers, so what you stated is most likely the case. Private contractors won't keep on staff unless they're needed.

Wonder what kind of recertification is needed after a prolonged shutdown?
 
roncachamp said:
I assume they will. With the tower closed there's nothing for them to do.
Click to expand...

I would expect that proper seniority levels. The Jr guy at a open tower gets furloughed, and a Sr controller at a closed tower gets his position. Of course we now have moving costs to factor into the budget.
 
This is all pretty disgenous. The IDEA for sequestration was Jack Lew's, in the Obama administration. Now the PR campaign that "we can't allow this to happen!" "We beg to differ, Mr. President, it was your idea and you signed it into law".

http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/staff/jack-lew

Yes, there will be problems, ATC notwithstanding. He'll probalby shut down some chicken confinement operations (no inspectors) and cry, "they're raising the price of food". But really, it was an idea FROM the administration.
 
Given that Congress passed appropriations that will cause the debt ceiling to be exceeded, is there some other way for the President to comply with the debt ceiling law besides sequestration? If so, what is it?
 
I call. Bring it on, shut the whole damn thing down except for national defense. Close everything, and stop spending entirely.

This is what happens when a threat is better than what we have.
 
Richard, to my knowledge there is not. Even worse, since the amdinistrations plan is to print money to get us out of recession, the resultant inflation will cause the debt lmiit to become increasing burdensome.

The Republicans are very cagey. The conservative wing opposes the printing of money (40-80 bil/month via the Federal Reserve repurchase program), and so long as the debt limit stands, the administration will eventually print itself into a corner.
 
bbchien said:
Richard, to my knowledge there is not. Even worse, since the amdinistrations plan is to print money to get us out of recession, the resultant inflation will cause the debt lmiit to become increasing burdensome.

The Republicans are very cagey. The conservative wing opposes the printing of money (40-80 bil/month via the Federal Reserve repurchase program), and so long as the debt limit stands, the administration will eventually print itself into a corner.
Click to expand...

Here's a pretty good read on the Fed

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-23/when-fed-has-print-money-just-print-money
 
bbchien said:
Richard, to my knowledge there is not. Even worse, since the amdinistrations plan is to print money to get us out of recession, the resultant inflation will cause the debt lmiit to become increasing burdensome.

The Republicans are very cagey. The conservative wing opposes the printing of money (40-80 bil/month via the Federal Reserve repurchase program), and so long as the debt limit stands, the administration will eventually print itself into a corner.
Click to expand...

But isn't it really Congress that is printing us into a corner, since no money can be spent without Congressional appropriations? I don't think blaming one party or the other works, because given the current makeup of the House and Senate, BOTH parties had to consent to the various spending bills that have been passed.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html
 
Last edited:
So KOPF is in the list.

KOPF which has both USCG and US Customs bases, loads of biz jets, multiple training schools/planes ......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top