To BasicMed or Stay with 3rd Class

TulsaWeather

TulsaWeather

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TulsaWeather
my 3rd class medical expires May 31.

I'm in my mid 50s, no known issues which would preclude a 3rd class renewal.

I'm a instrument-rated PP, but I don't have any aspirations of flying commercial, or for hire. I'm fine with my piston, single-engine, four-place poking around.

Should I just bow out of the 3rd class and go basicmed now? I guess I'm having trouble putting the pros and cons in perspective.

What are your thoughts?
 
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As long as getting a 3rd class is no issue, no reason to change IMHO.
You can always just let it expire and switch if something changes…
The pro to basicmed is when the FAA starts asking for yearly/costly stuff your doc says aren’t needed and is willing to help you manage, and sign off on the form.
 
DGlaeser said:
As long as getting a 3rd class is no issue, no reason to change IMHO.
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Change when it expires. Basicmed is good for 4 years vs 2 for 3rd class. There is a class renewal at 2 years for BM, but it's online on your schedule.

BM would make it tough if you get years down the road and have one of the conditions that require an SI. Reconstructing all the medical visits you've had for years as you age can be difficult and if you're active, the odds are high you'll miss something. Personally, I will see 7 different doctors this year alone - nothing serious, just a lot of little things.
 
bflynn said:
BM would make it tough if you get years down the road and have one of the conditions that require an SI.
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No tougher than getting the SI while on a 3rd class. Having one of those conditions means getting a fresh SI 3rd class, so I don’t see any difference.

Unless you plan to fly to Canada, there’s not really any advantage to the 3rd class over Basic Med, but there are important disadvantages and risks.
 
TulsaWeather said:
my 3rd class medical expires May 31.

I'm in my mid 50s, no known issues which would preclude a 3rd class renewal.

I'm a instrument-rated PP, but I don't have any aspirations of flying commercial, or for hire. I'm fine with my piston, single-engine, four-place poking around.

Should I just bow out of the 3rd class and go basicmed now? I guess I'm having trouble putting the pros and cons in perspective.

What are your thoughts?
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I can only think of a couple of things that a 3rd class would get you over BasicMed. (1) If you are flying to Canada, Basicmed is not recognized there yet; (2) Last time I checked, you needed a 3rd class medical if you want to get into the FAA normobaric chamber for hypoxia training. On the other hand, Basicmed can be done for free during your routine annual doctor's visit.
 
I think it makes sense to get Basic Med in addition to your class 3 med cert, especially if you actually adhere to the FARs, because if you develop a condition that would make you unable to meet the requirements of the med cert the FARs say you must self-ground. It's a cheap and easy fallback to deal with an unexpected change in your medical status, or a failure to renew your class 3 on time.
 
dbahn said:
I think it makes sense to get Basic Med in addition to your class 3 med cert, especially if you actually adhere to the FARs, because if you develop a condition that would make you unable to meet the requirements of the med cert the FARs say you must self-ground. It's a cheap and easy fallback to deal with an unexpected change in your medical status, or a failure to renew your class 3 on time.
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Unless you’re doing something that requires the 3rd class, why do this? Just get Basic and let the 3rd expire. I don’t see any reason to have both.
 
I've been BasicMed for Alost 5 years now. Have not missed by third class, although I sometimes do think, what if I need to cross into Canada?

I agree with those who, based on what you indicated in your post, said there appears to be no advantage to a third class medical.
 
Half Fast said:
Unless you’re doing something that requires the 3rd class, why do this? Just get Basic and let the 3rd expire. I don’t see any reason to have both.
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As I say, it only matters if you strictly follow the FARs, because you don't need to self-ground if you have Basic Med as a back up when a medical condition arises that would make you need to self ground with an FAA issued medical. You have no break in the period where you are legal to fly. But you're right in the sense that usually you can get Basic Med quickly when you need it. The same can't be said in most cases for an FAA issued med cert.

Before we had Basic Med a similar situation arose with Light Sport (actually still does) in the sense that you might be required to self ground from operating a C172 but still be perfectly legal to fly a Cub. What's really buried in the medical deficiency regs is the operation. Personally, I'm always concerned about the operation being perfectly legal so that I avoid a challenge from my insurance carrier in the event of an incident.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I've been BasicMed for Alost 5 years now. Have not missed by third class, although I sometimes do think, what if I need to cross into Canada?

I agree with those who, based on what you indicated in your post, said there appears to be no advantage to a third class medical.
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AOPA claims to be working on the Canadian problem, but are they working hard enough? Seems to me it would benefit Canadian economy with very little risk as well.

Pilots who are interested in flying to Alaska are out of luck right now with Basic Med, which is unfortunate. IMHO that's one of the great adventures in flying.
 
TulsaWeather said:
I guess I'm having trouble putting the pros and cons in perspective.
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With BasicMed the only con, currently, is your ability to fly in other countries.

Which of the following do you think you'll miss by going BasicMed?

Aircraft Requirements
- Any aircraft authorized under federal law to carry not more than 6 occupants
- Has a maximum certificated takeoff weight of not more than 6,000 pounds
Operating Requirements
- Carries not more than five passengers
- Operates under VFR or IFR, within the United States, at less than 18,000 feet MSL, not exceeding 250 knots.
- Flight not operated for compensation or hire

With a 4 seater piston, my guess is you'll miss none of them.

But, if you try it and decide that BasicMed is not for you, you can still go back to the class 3. So nothing lost by trying out this new fangled thing.

And in case you didn't hear, BasicMed can be used to operate as a Safety Pilot and if you wanted to get your CFI, that can be done on BasicMed too.

So really, no practical downside to coming on over.
 
I fly on Basic Med. I may see about getting a 3rd class though. I own a turbo airplane, so the FLs would be nice. But not required.

Not flying to Canada is a slight bummer.

According to what I have heard Canada will accept Basic Med once ICAO approves it. And that should be not too long.
 
Half Fast said:
Can you elaborate? I haven’t heard anything about ICAO approval of Basic Med. That would be sweet.
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Mark Baker did a session on Social Flight. He stated that Basic Med was in front of ICAO and approval was expected soon. It has been delayed due to COVID.

He stated that Canada was not proceeding right now, waiting for the ICAO to accept it.
 
dbahn said:
As I say, it only matters if you strictly follow the FARs, because you don't need to self-ground if you have Basic Med as a back up when a medical condition arises that would make you need to self ground with an FAA issued medical. You have no break in the period where you are legal to fly. But you're right in the sense that usually you can get Basic Med quickly when you need it. The same can't be said in most cases for an FAA issued med cert.

Before we had Basic Med a similar situation arose with Light Sport (actually still does) in the sense that you might be required to self ground from operating a C172 but still be perfectly legal to fly a Cub. What's really buried in the medical deficiency regs is the operation. Personally, I'm always concerned about the operation being perfectly legal so that I avoid a challenge from my insurance carrier in the event of an incident.
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You are correct that self-grounding with an FAA medical is worded more strictly than with BasicMed. "unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate" vs. "unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner."

I'm just not sure how much practical difference there is if there is an accident or incident in which the pilot's medical condition becomes an issue.
 
I understand that those who would like to enter the EAA air race have to have at least a 3rd class medical.
 
midlifeflyer said:
You are correct that self-grounding with an FAA medical is worded more strictly than with BasicMed. "unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate" vs. "unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner."

I'm just not sure how much practical difference there is if there is an accident or incident in which the pilot's medical condition becomes an issue.
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Even though 91.3 makes the pilot-in-command the "final authority" regarding the operation of each flight, I've noticed that the FAA is not shy about second guessing any decision we make whenever they think there is a reason to do so.
 
Palmpilot said:
Even though 91.3 makes the pilot-in-command the "final authority" regarding the operation of each flight, I've noticed that the FAA is not shy about second guessing any decision we make whenever they think there is a reason to do so.
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There ahould be a law that FAA inspectors must be active pilots in the category and class that they work with, including a requirement for, say, 100 hours per year and five hours in the preceding 60 days.
 
Palmpilot said:
Even though 91.3 makes the pilot-in-command the "final authority" regarding the operation of each flight, I've noticed that the FAA is not shy about second guessing any decision we make whenever they think there is a reason to do so.
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I don't think it happens quite as often as we like to think. The one that comes to mind is emergency authority. I think the FAA can probably latch on to the main exception to the emergency defense - that the emergency was "of the pilots' own making" - in many if not most situations, it's relatively rare for the FAA to second guess the decision to declare.

Interesting are some of the cases which disallow the defense when a pilot fails to inform ATC of the emergency. Not because pilots have to declare to take advantage of the rule. We don't (my very first enforcement case was an undeclared emergency). But rather because (a) advising ATC of the problem would would probably have avoided the emergency; (b) not advising ATC led the fact finder to disbelieve there was on; or (c) declaring would have avoided the consequences of the emergency.
 
ateamer said:
There ahould be a law that FAA inspectors must be active pilots in the category and class that they work with, including a requirement for, say, 100 hours per year and five hours in the preceding 60 days.
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...and you're willing to spend your tax dollars to pay for that flying time too? The inspectors would love to go flying two hours every week.
 
midlifeflyer said:
You are correct that self-grounding with an FAA medical is worded more strictly than with BasicMed. "unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate" vs. "unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner."

I'm just not sure how much practical difference there is if there is an accident or incident in which the pilot's medical condition becomes an issue.
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Further, it's extremely rare that the FAA takes enforcement action on a supposed violation of 61.53. I've never seen one, nor could I track any down. I suspect that there are more plenty of other violations that are much easier to build a case.
 
Brad Z said:
...and you're willing to spend your tax dollars to pay for that flying time too? The inspectors would love to go flying two hours every week.
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Good point, I did not think that through. But it would be much better for us if they were active aviators with up-to-date experience of what we’re all doing and dealing with.
 
Half Fast said:
Unless you’re doing something that requires the 3rd class, why do this? Just get Basic and let the 3rd expire. I don’t see any reason to have both.
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I maintain both a BM and 3rd class. I do this because if my doctor or the group he is with ever decides from a liability standpoint they don’t want to do BM sign offs, I’m covered. He signs the BM off as part of my yearly, and my 3rd class is only $125. I do have an SI for OSA, so if that gets to onerous for yearly reporting, I will let the 3rd class and SI expire and just go BM. YMMV.
 
Brad Z said:
Further, it's extremely rare that the FAA takes enforcement action on a supposed violation of 61.53. I've never seen one, nor could I track any down. I suspect that there are more plenty of other violations that are much easier to build a case.
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I don't think of it as an enforcement issue, especially since in many cases the pilot in violation is deceased. But I can see how it can be a liability issue in those circumstances, where the plaintiffs (survivors or family members of the deceased or injured) go after the estate of the pilot who flew with a known medical deficiency. Violations of 61.53 tend to be found on autopsy, where enforcement action is moot.
 
Rcmutz said:
I do this because if my doctor or the group he is with ever decides from a liability standpoint they don’t want to do BM sign offs, I’m covered.
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I don't understand this. If the doctor ever decides he'll no longer do Basic Med, then get the 3rd (or find another doc). How is getting a 3rd every year (and risking a denial which would preclude Basic) "covering" you for anything?
 
Half Fast said:
I don't understand this. If the doctor ever decides he'll no longer do Basic Med, then get the 3rd (or find another doc). How is getting a 3rd every year (and risking a denial which would preclude Basic) "covering" you for anything?
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I get the third class every 2 years. The reporting for the SI is due every year. Basically a compliance report and data from the CPAP machine. If I were to let the SI associated with the 3rd class expire, and I couldn’t find a doctor to do the BM, I’d have to start all over seeking an SI. As long as the annual reporting is not onerous, I’ll keep the 3rd class. I understand what you are saying about risking NOT qualifying for the 3rd class, but when I go, it is after my annual with my personal Doc, who does the BM sign off each year, so I am pretty sure I’ll qualify for the 3rd. As a matter of fact my AME asks me if my annual doc did the prostate check. :eek:
 
Rcmutz said:
...and I couldn’t find a doctor to do the BM,...
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Okay, I understand your point, but the "risk" that you wouldn't be able to find a doctor to do BM is tiny or non-existent. It's really just a matter of how you're prioritizing convenience, since you could travel to any physician in the US who does Basic Med, and chances are there would be one within an hour or two of your location in Columbus at the most. So really, it just comes down to you not wanting to take the small chance of having an inconvenient trip to get a BM exam.

Heck, to get my 3rd class I traveled all the way from Florida to Peoria, IL, so I really don't get people who say they "can't find a doctor" to do Basic Med. Certainly they can; they're just not willing to endure a little bit of travel.

But if folks are willing to spin the FAA medical roulette wheel every two years to avoid a trip every four years, who am I to question someone's choice to gamble?
 
Half Fast said:
It's really just a matter of how you're prioritizing convenience, since you could travel to any physician in the US who does Basic Med, and chances are there would be one within an hour or two of your location in Columbus at the most. …
Heck, to get my 3rd class I traveled all the way from Florida to Peoria, IL, so I really don't get people who say they "can't find a doctor" to do Basic Med.
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in another case of “wish I had thought of this sooner”:
If you work a job where you do business travel (within the USA) this is a good chance to “shop around” for a Basic Med doctor while you are out there. Eg I travel a lot on 1-week or 2-week rotations, and alot of walk-in clinics advertise that they do DOT medicals (for truck drivers) so call around, and stop by while you are in town.
The CMEC is good for 4 years, and you don’t need to wait for the old one to expire you can “reset the clock” while you have time and are in an area with more opportunities to find a helpful Doctor.
 
Half Fast said:
But if folks are willing to spin the FAA medical roulette wheel every two years to avoid a trip every four years, who am I to question someone's choice to gamble?
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And that's the crux of Basic Med, where you can manage your own medical status without being concerned about getting caught up in the FAA treadmill when what seems to be an insignificant medical condition arises but turns out to be a big deal in Oklahoma. Every time you get recertified by an AME you are rolling the dice, which realistically are always stacked against you because you are expecting them to be in your favor.
Rcmutz said:
I understand what you are saying about risking NOT qualifying for the 3rd class, but when I go, it is after my annual with my personal Doc, who does the BM sign off each year, so I am pretty sure I’ll qualify for the 3rd. As a matter of fact my AME asks me if my annual doc did the prostate check. :eek:
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But that "pretty sure" is the gamble. If something comes up on your exam after MedExpress is accessed and you are denied a medical certification you are grounded, even if you already have Basic Med.
 
dbahn said:
If something comes up on your exam after MedExpress is accessed....
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OR if OKC changes the rules on you and something that’s never been a problem in the past suddenly is. I just don’t see any sense at all in gambling on the FAA in situations where Basic Med is adequate.
 
Good point as well.

Haven't there even been some instances where that situation resulted in someone needing a Special Issuance based on previously reported information that didn't require it at the time?
 
My AME says you can't have both. Either a certificate or basic med, but not both.

Me? I don't know. I have a third class right now but will expect to return to a second class in August, now that my vision has been fixed with cataract surgery.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
My AME says you can't have both. Either a certificate or basic med, but not both.

Me? I don't know. I have a third class right now but will expect to return to a second class in August, now that my vision has been fixed with cataract surgery.
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He's wrong.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/media/basicmed_faq.pdf
See Q6:
Q6: Can I exercise BasicMed and hold a medical certificate at the same time?

A: Yes. If you are operating under BasicMed, then you must comply with the
BasicMed operating limitations (e.g. flying only within the U.S. and at or less than 250
knots). When operating under BasicMed, you are not exercising the privileges of your
medical certificate.​

I had both until my 3rd expired. Many others have done the same.
 
And yes - look for a more knowledgeable AME. One who can at least be bothered to look at the FAA's website.

Who knows what else he's missing?
 
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