Time for Mulligan to upgrade?

kayoh190 said:
Turbine Duke!

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The BEAST!
 
Will the extra kid fit in a golf club type shipping box? Ship him via ship sticks...much cheaper.

Seriously might be time to consider fractional jet ownership, especially if you are thinking of hiring a pilot to fly your plane. You could still keep the cirrus for most missions.

Also, third class medical makes sense for don't turboprops experience better fuel economy at higher altitudes, and better weather avoidance.
 
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Teach the wife or one of the kids to fly and rent a second plane for one of them to fly when load dictates?

Mulligan flight of two...
 
Todd82 said:
Wait where are you? Buy the second SR22 and I'm sure one of us here would fly the kid for free, in exchange for being allowed to take the plane for our own personal use on occasion.
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Heck I offered that to him and the bastard moved to Louisiana!
 
Update to class 3 medical
Bump to an unpressurized Navajo for 2-3 years to learn multi and get proficient with long term plan to upgrade to an MU-2. Ask @Ted DuPuis can’t beat the speed/cost ratio of a MU2. Bit you need to learn to twin crawl then walk then run!!! My buddy left our home base 30 min after I did for a trip 130nm away. Me in the 182 whipping and cursing, him in the mu-2 yawning... hear him enter pattern when I’m on final..grrrr!!!
 
The MU-2 is an awesome plane, no doubt. It would be a terrible idea for an upgrade from a Cirrus (not to mention you need 100 hours of multi time before starting the training per the regs). So it could be an “eventual” just not a “next.”

I love me some Navajo, and they’re great planes that are easy to fly for the size. But I don’t think that hits the mark for Mulligan. 2 hour block time for the family trips, 3.5 for the longer solo trips. And you’re flying lower, generally 12k or less.
 
The M600 and TBM are no-brainers they do your missions with ease but are tough to do on a 2 mil budget unless you go old TBM or get a partner in an M600 or later model TBM. The M600 is basic med capable, not the TBM due to GW. The Meridian/M500 will do your 670 nm mission cheaper than any other certified turbine. Carrying 3 couples, the Vision jet won't work. It is only certified for 5 adults. Even with 5 adults the SF50 will be quite range limited due to the amount of fuel you have to leave behind. A typical Meridian/M500 on a 300 nm mission will leave about 900 lbs useful load for the cabin off ramp weight, as you will need about 800 lbs of fuel for the mission and IFR reserves with a 25-30 knot headwind. So 3, 180 lb men and 3, 120 lb women would work, so as long as you hang out with FAA average couples, you are golden ;-).
 
I still like the Caravan. :) Maybe not ideal for your mission, I just think it's a cool plane. :D
 
With a $2mil budget, PC12 is out. Only PC12's in that budget are old very high time legacy birds, and they will eat you alive in maintenance.
We had one with $200k of unscheduled maintenance, in one week.
 
Vision jet. The Flight school I work for part time is getting one and they’re managing it for one of our SR22 owners. As you know, Cirrus training is top notch so it wouldn’t be an issue to transition to it.
 
Been doing some research on the Vision. Contacted the salesman who lives in my neighborhood and is taking me up in his next week when he returns from overseas. Depending on how that goes I will either

A - put down a deposit on one which I should have done when I bought my SR22 and wait.

B - Look for a position that is coming up sooner for sale that is locked in at lower price and with seller markup is less than buying a new one which is hard to find.

C - wait for a couple of years for re-sales to start coming up. I’m guessing a bunch of people who bought positions 5 years out with will have had life style changes, or have already gone past the vision into the next step up and the market will have some buying opportunities which is why I am hesitant on paying the extra .5m right now.

The problem now is that they went from $2m to $2.5m and I was prepared to spend the $2m today but the extra $.5m is just being thrown away and given to those who were smarter than me and bought earlier.

3rd class not a problem at all. Only went that route for an SI which is a no brainer and having to renew every 4 years vs every year. Only did basic med because never had need for above 18,000 but could easily just go to AME with form from doc every year and in and out in a few minutes.
 
mtuomi said:
With a $2mil budget, PC12 is out. Only PC12's in that budget are old very high time legacy birds, and they will eat you alive in maintenance.
We had one with $200k of unscheduled maintenance, in one week.
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How much does one need to stretch that $2M to get a reasonable PC-12, though? When someone is talking about spending $2M to buy a plane, if the actual best fit for the mission is $3M then he should at least consider sources of extra million that would save him from suffering the depreciation, transaction costs, and opportunity costs that come with spending $2M on the wrong plane. A Pilatus is probably not Mulligan's best choice, but it's one of the planes that would comfortably perform his mission and you don't even have to add digits to his budget to consider it. If someone said he had a $50,000 budget and needed 6 seats, we would tell him to beg, borrow, or steal another $50,000 to get a 210, Saratoga, or Bonanza in decent condition rather than wasting his time and money on a $50,000 plane that will never accomplish the mission. (Of course, at least one person would tell him to find another $200,000 and get a pressurized Baron. And maybe I'm guilty of that here. As pointed out above, my budget and mission both limit my turbine aircraft options to the Subsonex jet.)
 
mulligan said:
Been doing some research on the Vision. Contacted the salesman who lives in my neighborhood and is taking me up in his next week when he returns from overseas. Depending on how that goes I will either

A - put down a deposit on one which I should have done when I bought my SR22 and wait.

B - Look for a position that is coming up sooner for sale that is locked in at lower price and with seller markup is less than buying a new one which is hard to find.

C - wait for a couple of years for re-sales to start coming up. I’m guessing a bunch of people who bought positions 5 years out with will have had life style changes, or have already gone past the vision into the next step up and the market will have some buying opportunities which is why I am hesitant on paying the extra .5m right now.

The problem now is that they went from $2m to $2.5m and I was prepared to spend the $2m today but the extra $.5m is just being thrown away and given to those who were smarter than me and bought earlier.

3rd class not a problem at all. Only went that route for an SI which is a no brainer and having to renew every 4 years vs every year. Only did basic med because never had need for above 18,000 but could easily just go to AME with form from doc every year and in and out in a few minutes.
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How much is having the plane now worth to you? I think that options B and C are going to be priced higher than new planes for as long as there is a waiting list at the factory, and people like you are the reason why: there is a demand for these planes that the principal supplier can't keep up with. I don't know actual numbers but I found a news report from last summer stating that there were over 600 people in line and the factory was completing 1 plane per week, with plans to produce 2 per week this year. So if you put your name in the hat today and they roll 2 per week out of the factory, you'll be waiting for 6 years. If they manage to ramp up to 8 per week, it'll still be early 2020 when you take your first trip in the jet. Of course, spending a half million extra to avoid 18 months of delays comes out to just shy of $28,000 per month of utility.

TLDR: Are you 100% sure that your kids wouldn't benefit from a few years in boarding school?
 
Not mentioned is a Diamond DA-62. Seats seven, although the back bench is either two kids or one adult seated half sideways.

@mulligan you have not stated how many hours/miles you fly a year. From memory, TBM was designed around something like 400 hours a year; if you do less than they many components will calendar time out instead cycle/hour time out. While the PA-46 line is not as "nice" especially on the fit/finish aspect it is designed around Part 91. So if you are lower in the annual hours it is a great deal.

Based on the fact you are basicmed now, this has all the feel of a retirement plane.
If you want to stay with basicmed: DA-62, SF50 (I know of one which is flown VFR almost all the time on the east coast at 17.5), Piper M500/M600, a second SR22.
If you get a third class medical: Kodiac Quest, Cessna Caravan, used TBM.

Tim
 
D6243939-9337-4421-A4CD-D6E38230C195.jpeg

3 steps closer to your dream destination


*totally stole that from Cirrus :p
 
asicer said:
You'd need one that's certificated for 6 seats and not 7. Is that possible?
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I know they have a five seat version and a seven seat listed on the site. Since I am not buying one, I never asked about a six seat version.
The difference between the five seat and seven seat is a bench in the back. With seven, you lose luggage space.

Tim
 
tspear said:
Not mentioned is a Diamond DA-62. Seats seven, although the back bench is either two kids or one adult seated half sideways.

@mulligan you have not stated how many hours/miles you fly a year. From memory, TBM was designed around something like 400 hours a year; if you do less than they many components will calendar time out instead cycle/hour time out. While the PA-46 line is not as "nice" especially on the fit/finish aspect it is designed around Part 91. So if you are lower in the annual hours it is a great deal.

Based on the fact you are basicmed now, this has all the feel of a retirement plane.
If you want to stay with basicmed: DA-62, SF50 (I know of one which is flown VFR almost all the time on the east coast at 17.5), Piper M500/M600, a second SR22.
If you get a third class medical: Kodiac Quest, Cessna Caravan, used TBM.

Tim
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Mulligan was looking at a DA-62 in the past. I can't recall if it was when he got the Cirrus or when he got the 206. Either way, if the DA-62 works for his mission I am certain he's considering it.
 
Another plus for sticking with Cirrus... boat rides when you go to Knoxville

 
ktup-flyer said:
If you wanna be cool...
https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/26307739/1986-piper-cheyenne-400ls
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They are awesome airplanes.

There are also only about 25 operating in the country, and Cheyenne Air (or whatever they call themselves now, I guess it's Friend Air Care) is effectively the only company you can use for maintenance because they're the only ones who have the ability to make many of the parts for that plane. I have some friends who've been quite happy with that business, and some friends who have been very, very unhappy. While that can be said about any shop, it's enough to make me not want to try operating one. And keep in mind I'm someone who's normally running towards unusual vehicles, not away from them.

From my friends who've owned them, the Cheyenne I/II (which are PA-31T-xxx planes) are much easier to keep flying and easier to be maintained. The PA-42 series (III and 400LS) are completely different animals.
 
tspear said:
Why would you do that with no damage?

Tim
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Because an engine might have grenaded or else a major inspection came up and it made more financial sense to put on a different engine than to overhaul/inspect/whatever the ones on the plane. Happens all the time. At least one of the engines on the MU-2 isn't original.
 
ktup-flyer said:
ask Ted. He's the Garrett guru

edit: beat me to it :D
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Didn’t realize that there are Garrett’s in there. So you’d have the distinction of being the loudest girl at the party as well!!!:p
 
benyflyguy said:
Didn’t realize that there are Garrett’s in there. So you’d have the distinction of being the loudest girl at the party as well!!!:p
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Only MU2. I think it has to do with how the exhaust goes under the high wing and reverbs between the prop and the ground.
I have been next to Piper 400XLS at startup and behind it at runup. Neither was as close to as bad a an MU2

Tim
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Because an engine might have grenaded or else a major inspection came up and it made more financial sense to put on a different engine than to overhaul/inspect/whatever the ones on the plane. Happens all the time. At least one of the engines on the MU-2 isn't original.
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But both? The engine times are within 3 hours. That makes sense based on the right engine always starting first and shutting down after.
But having both engines grenade? Or some MX event?
Something does not make sense to me.


Tim
 
tspear said:
Only MU2. I think it has to do with how the exhaust goes under the high wing and reverbs between the prop and the ground.
I have been next to Piper 400XLS at startup and behind it at runup. Neither was as close to as bad a an MU2

Tim
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All TPE-331s are loud, regardless of what they're on. Look in the smiley face and see the stage 1 compressor. The MU-2 is the loudest of them all because it's got straight exhaust, whereas all others have some sort of bend.

tspear said:
But both? The engine times are within 3 hours. That makes sense based on the right engine always starting first and shutting down after.
But having both engines grenade? Or some MX event?
Something does not make sense to me.


Tim
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Looking at it again, I don't know how the engine times are logged on the airframe vs. the engines. IOW, I don't know if the engines have separate hobbs meters from the airframe master hobbs meter. Most of the time people start one engine before the other but shut them down at the same time, and of course the master is on for some period of time when the engines are off. So over time, there can be a split. The serial numbers aren't consecutive so it could also just be that they got put on at different times.

Another option is that there could've been a loaner engine program at some point, and they could've had a loaner engine on while the main engine was out getting some work done. This is common on jets and there are turboprop shops that do offer loaner engines.
 
James331 said:
For one I wouldn’t fly in a 2M PC12
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scared?

FWIW, we paid 2 on the dot for ours, then put about 500k into avionics and interior for our mission. It’s better suited to the type of flying we do than even an NG.


CFCA10D9-6455-4BDA-9AF5-4B1500D4BAAF.jpeg
 
^^^ that's pretty cool! Always loved the PC-12 flight deck.
 
kayoh190 said:
^^^ that's pretty cool! Always loved the PC-12 flight deck.
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Its a sweet airplane, and even though those cheltons are old they are incredibly cool units. It’s like the grandpa of the g1000. They were the original “Capstone” units.
 
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