Tiedown spot options?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by FastEddieB, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    Eddie, are you going to sink tie-down rings into the concrete? I didn't notice anything in the photo, but it was taken from a distance.
     
  2. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    I bought 4 eyebolts* and bolted metal plates to them:

    [​IMG]

    Also bought some 4” PVC couplers to serve as “surrounds”:

    [​IMG]

    I think you can zoom into my earlier photos and see them in place.

    I dug down just over a foot and placed the rings flush with where the concrete will be, and poured some Quickrete around them. I think that, plus the concrete in the slab above them should be pretty secure.


    *My Sky Arrow ties down best at the wings and nose. But I wanted other planes to be accommodated, so I placed one at the tail as well.
     
  3. Half Fast

    Half Fast En-Route

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    Very cool!

    I have this image of your plane being carried away in a high wind, with the slab still strapped to it...
     
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  4. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    That, sir, is an excellent idea.

    We plan on back-filling the area around the slab, so not much of a ramp will be needed.

    But I may place a form for an extension that could hold the utility box seen in the photos, where I keep tiedowns, fuel and misc supplies. I can keep one side “mobile”, something like...

    [​IMG]

    Maybe order an extra half-yard to be safe.

    Thanks for the suggestion!
     
  5. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Plus, Eddie, you never get ALL the concrete out of a truck. Most plants will batch a bit extra to account for this but one never knows.

    Also, the truck might want to "wash out" the drum somewhere in the immediate area. Is there a ditch nearby that could stand to be lined with a concrete slurry mix? They'll leave the "wash out" in a pile...you'll need to contour it, easy enough to do though as long as you're not too busy with your slab at the same time.
     
  6. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    How did I miss this thread? Great work Eddie, nice project.
     
  7. bflynn

    bflynn En-Route

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    Buried cinder blocks would be my call. I like the look and the cost is right. You could inexpensively improve your anchoring by driving some rebar diagonally through the holes in a cinder block an X shape to hold the block down.

    Second would be Matson mat. $900 to get the mat, then a lot of crushed stone under it.
     
  8. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Pour scheduled for next Wed at noon, if anyone wants to lend a hand!
     
  9. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Worked on finalizing things today, and took your advice:

    [​IMG]

    If there’s excess, I’ll have it added to that little extension. I left one side movable, so I can expand it to take whatever extra concrete is available.

    Thanks for the advice!
     
  10. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

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    Yeah, thats exactly what I do. Much better than possibly running short on the main slab.
     
  11. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    The deed is done!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The fellow who delivered the concrete was a big help - working the bull float looks likes it takes some finesse.

    We had to extend the extension another 6’ or so to take all the extra concrete. Thanks again forane! 4 yards altogether got the job done.

    Thanks again for all the help!
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  12. Half Fast

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  13. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Nice job, dude!!

    Just one more suggestion if I may...don't gag your lolly in getting it back filled. The worse thing that can happen now is to have rain runoff undercut it by washing some of the gravel out from under it.

    Re-establishing proper sub grade compaction if this happens is damned near impossible.
     
  14. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The driver was a hellofahand to work like that. Pours I’ve been on all the driver does is press the levers and wash down. Of course we always had more than one guy on hand...
     
  15. PaulS

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    Looks great can't wait to see an airplane parked on it.
     
  16. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What! Where's all those POAers who were gonna help! Like Clark said you're fortunate that driver helped. Ones I've dealt with just do their truck part. Looking good though.
     
  17. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Thanks, all!

    I stopped by the property briefly today and the concrete is just starting to “whiten” in patchy areas. Some tiny paw prints, but barely noticeable.

    Good point. We should start excavation shortly for our pole barn - look for a separate thread on that. But that’s when we’ll have equipment on site and dirt available to back fill.

    Which leads to 3 questions:

    1) When will it be safe to knock off the forms?

    2) My friend asked what the purpose of the gravel was, and I wasn’t really sure.

    3) It seemed like the concrete was liquid enough to flow into the couple of inches of gravel, and then set. Does it?

    Thanks again - this has been educational, and I’ll never look at concrete slabs the same way again!
     
  18. Getonit

    Getonit Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have only poured small pads, less than 4' wide and it is easy to screed it level, but how is it done on wider pads?
     
  19. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    In one of the photos above, you should see us using 2 2x4’s screwed together as a screed. Over 16’ long to get a grip on the ends, but manageable. Not sure at what size it would become problematical.

    As an aside, I did set the forms up for a 2” drop over the 20’ length back to front for drainage. I had read 1” in 8’ was desireable, but figure I got close enough.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  20. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    What should be the final cost breakdown:

    [​IMG]

    Way better than the $3,800 estimate.

    Then again, a LOT of labor went into that slab. The fact that my time is worthless probably helped a lot!
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  21. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    1. Forms can be removed the following day if you didn't pour it too wet.

    2. In areas where the soil is clayey using crushed stone under the concrete allows water to drain, thus preventing it from standing under the concrete. The gravel subbase is known as a "drainage course." In areas of very sandy soil that drain well, one can get by with a thin "sand leveling course" under the slab. Dry subgrade is stronger and frost heaves less than saturated subgrade.

    3. Yes.
     
  22. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Very cool project.

    So I have an extremely dumb question but there seem to be a number of concrete experts here, so here goes.

    How in the world do they pour steeply sloped driveways and pads? I’ve always wondered that my entire life, honestly.

    I always figured they make it very dense but doesn’t it still want to run downhill like a very slow mudslide?

    I’m not talking steep enough that they terrace it in multiple pours, but steep enough you’d think it would all run downhill somehow before it set.
     
  23. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Angle of repose. The aggregate by itself will not “flow” until its angle of repose is exceeded. The angle can be viewed/measured at any sand pile. Add in a properly dry mix (google slump test) and you see how the properties of a cement slurry can be tailored to avoid problems with flow. Throw in some CaCl and the slurry will set quickly. Do not throw in sugar by mistake...

    Anyway, from a practical point of view just use the mix spec’d for curbs and you’ll be fine. That stuff can almost be stacked.
     
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  24. Cluemeister

    Cluemeister Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Looks great Eddie! When does the steel building get set on it? :)
     
  25. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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  26. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Got back up to the property Monday, and knocked off the forms yesterday and hacked out the tiedown rings - photos to follow.

    Looking good, but...

    All of the sides of the slab look nice and solid - except the back, which has gaps. I think the word is “honeycombed”. Even though I was tamping down with a hard rake, I recall that right after the pour started the driver suggested he needed to add some water to the mix. Hence, that very first pass might have been a tad “dry”.

    Question: is it worth my while to fill it in before backfilling? If I don’t it sure seems water could intrude and freeze, causing problems. And if I do, what should I trowel in there? I have a partial bag of Quickcrete I could mix up, but some sort of premix from a bucket or even a caulking gun would be less of a chore.

    Thanks yet again in advance!
     
  27. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    As promised...

    Karen giving 2 thumbs up:

    [​IMG]

    Forms knocked off:

    [​IMG]

    That side extension was a great idea, forane!
     
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  28. Flying Fever

    Flying Fever Filing Flight Plan

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    Eddie--

    It happens all the time, even on those beautiful concrete columns along the interstate...and it's easy to fix. If you want pristine sides just use a bag of quickcrete, without the gravel component, and trowel that into the honeycombed areas, btw, this is called 'point and patch' easy to do especially if you're worried about aesthetics.

    D.
     
  29. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Thanks. The area will be backfilled anyway so aesthetics are unimportant. I may jump on this project later today.
     
  30. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    Yamaha TW200?
     
  31. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    As a visual, this is the one bad stretch:

    [​IMG]
     
  32. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Yep!

    My KTM 950 Adventure was just starting to feel too intimidating, so about 6 months ago I sold it and bought the 2017 “TDub”.

    Which is an absolute hoot, both on and off-road.

    Wringing every last ounce of performance from 196cc and 16hp is a whole new challenge!

    Earning my “Dragon” about a month ago:

    [​IMG]

    Drop by our TN digs and let’s ride!
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  33. RalphInCA

    RalphInCA Cleared for Takeoff

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    We had a bunch of those at the motorcycle training school I taught at a few years back. Almost indestructible fun little machines.
     
  34. coloradobluesky

    coloradobluesky En-Route

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    How steep? Unless they are super steep, its no problem. Concrete will stay where it is until hardened. You might have to pour it a bit dryer than usual. If it gets incredibly steep, then special measures have to done, but that would be way steeper than any normal very steep driveway. (Steepest interstate grade is 6%, steep driveway is 12%. Those are percent not degrees btw). Could easily pour 20% grade with no special techniques, just use a dry mix.

    Something that DOES have to be designed for even with gently sloping concrete is anchoring. Concrete pads have a tendency to creep downhill over the years. This is done by having a flat heavy concrete pad at the bottom and/or caissons (deep piers) steel tied to the slab. Or something else.

    • less than 30-degree slope--2- to 4-inch slump
    • 30- to 45-degree slope--1- to 3-inch slump
    • more than 45-degree slope--double forming may be considered for concrete thickness of about 6 inches or more [or shotcrete should be used]
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  35. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Thanks @coloradobluesky — I just always wondered. My ramp up to my house from the driveway is fairly steep and we’ve thought about doing a pad there, but we have friends with houses on hills that have way steeper concrete up from the road. Just a curiosity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  36. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    Actually either location works for me. I could meet up at the Dragon or somewhere similar, or down in Copperhill.
     
  37. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Good thing aesthetics don’t count:

    [​IMG]

    Still, filled in the gaps and should at least delay water intrusion.

    Speaking of aesthetics, once I chipped out down to the 4” PVC sections, the edges looked rough:

    [​IMG]

    Note: the upper edge of the PVC is actually smooth ~ what makes it look ragged is remnants of the black duct tape I used to tape them off.

    Looked for at Home Depot flanges for and found these:

    [​IMG]

    Of course, many will see these and think “toilet”, but that’s their problem!
     
  38. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

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    if it prevents chafing of your tie down ropes or chains, who cares. Nice job.
     
  39. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    For those not following the Pole Barn Adventure, yesterday I finally got to park the Sky Arrow on the slab for the first time:

    [​IMG]

    Thanks again for all the help and advice!
     
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  40. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

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    'Bout time!

    But seriously, looking good (and color me jealous!)