Thunderbird Crash Scuttlebutt

hindsight2020 said:
Military talks on Uniform as a custom, not Victor. We can, but generally don't. This leaves the victor radio for intraflight frequency. This is especially so for the fighter/bomber types. Heavies and tankers are often found talking on victor however. LiveATC doesn't tape UHF from my understanding.
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LiveATC streams/records whatever someone puts up a receiver for. Alas, not too many people have UHF feeds up.
 
I was an USAF ATC and we transmitted/received on both VHF/UHF. Been awhile but I believe the newer fighters (F16, F15) had VHF capability (maybe Evil Eagle can fill us in). Done a few airshows when the Tbirds were at the base and don't recall the frequency they used, but it was a discrete frequency during the airshow and we didn't have it. If needed we could always transmit on 121.5/243.0.
 
silver-eagle said:
I always believed MULDER was right. Sully should have been listening more closely. The truth is; a better team is created when they have the difference of opinion.
I can believe a gov't conspiracy faster then a bunch of the MOST SKILLED AF pilots f'd up.
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I think Sully was too busy trying to duck geese and then land in the Hudson.
 
mscard88 said:
I was an USAF ATC and we transmitted/received on both VHF/UHF. Been awhile but I believe the newer fighters (F16, F15) had VHF capability (maybe Evil Eagle can fill us in). Done a few airshows when the Tbirds were at the base and don't recall the frequency they used, but it was a discrete frequency during the airshow and we didn't have it. If needed we could always transmit on 121.5/243.0.
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They have the capability to transmit on VHF, but it is limited. You won't here the fighters talking around here on VHF. Maybe an E-2/C-2 and helos often do, but I never here the pointy nose guys.
 
My son is Navy ATC currently stateside at an Naval air station. He said the birds on his base broadcast and receive UHF. However, ATC uses both, they are near a busy Class B.
 
mscard88 said:
I was an USAF ATC and we transmitted/received on both VHF/UHF. Been awhile but I believe the newer fighters (F16, F15) had VHF capability (maybe Evil Eagle can fill us in). Done a few airshows when the Tbirds were at the base and don't recall the frequency they used, but it was a discrete frequency during the airshow and we didn't have it. If needed we could always transmit on 121.5/243.0.
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Both Eagles and Falcons have VHF capability. The 16's VHF radio works quite well, ours was an afterthought of 9/11 and was poorly executed in the contract... but we do have some capability to transmit VHF. The installation in the Eagle is such that no one uses it - it's on our aux radio only and to tune a VHF frequency you have to go to a preprogrammed frequency greater than 10, less than 20, then go to manual tuning and dial each individual digit - but add 200. So tuning in 128.250 you put 328.250 in the radio. The controls for this are by your left hip at about seat height so it's not the easiest thing to do when you are flying around low level, in formation and going fast. We stick with UHF unless we absolutely have no other choice.
 
The ATC tapes were routed through Clinton's server and have mysteriously disappeared. The FBI was tasked to investigate. Director Comey met with CSAF on the Tarmac for a brief conversation when their airplanes were at Andrews.

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Cheers
 
Fearless Tower said:
They have the capability to transmit on VHF, but it is limited. You won't here the fighters talking around here on VHF. Maybe an E-2/C-2 and helos often do, but I never here the pointy nose guys.
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The F/A-18 has dual ARC-210 radios which are UHF, VHF, and a few other bands and functionalities. My habit pattern is to switch to VHF freqs when I get switched from center to approach if going to a civilian field, but that is personal technique only. Early F-16A/B's have a somewhat similar configuration to what Evil mentioned, though a little different…….UHF only on comm 1, VHF only on comm 2. They also have knobs to turn each frequency digit so it is really cumbersome to use anything other than pre-programmed channels. Not sure if this changed with the F-16C/D, though I would certainly hope it did.
 
Fearless Tower said:
They have the capability to transmit on VHF, but it is limited. You won't here the fighters talking around here on VHF. Maybe an E-2/C-2 and helos often do, but I never here the pointy nose guys.
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All the fighters have VHF, but no one ever uses it because all the chatter. UHF is quieter and makes hearing comms on the tactical frequency easier.

Edit: I just saw 35AoAs post, and I also would only tune VHF when going into a busy airport. Sometimes it's tough to work your way into the comms when you can't hear anyone else talking.
 
Cooter143 said:
UHF is quieter and makes hearing comms on the tactical frequency easier.
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No disagreement on that. I've always preferred UHF for that very reason, but for a surface guy, the range is very limited since it is pretty much limited to line of sight.
 
Seems like they could have landed at Ft Carson. Its only a few miles away. Dont they have fuel gauges? If it gets to be an emergency, you just declare and do it.
 
BUTTS has fairly small runways 4500x75 but PUB is only 30 miles to the south of COS and APA 45 to the North both with much more reasonable runways.
 
I hadn't seen this thread but I'm not buying it. The scanner buffs around here had all the frequencies except the scrambled stuff up, and unless all of this negotiation was happening on one of those... Nah.

Nauga is right on this one. There'd be posts about folks hearing the fuel emergency call even if it was just part of the post-"knock it off" call on the team frequency.

It took the scanner folks about two hours to have every single primary and backup frequency for the forest fire stuff figured out today after the handoff to the USFS team, for example. Not just the usual stuff but even the handhelds at the tanker bases, and what not.

That info gets around lightning fast. At air shows about half to three quarters of it is guessed at before the show even begins.

POTUS' freqs? A little less known. Well usually known very well and fairly quickly but uncopyable encrypted P-25.
 
denverpilot said:
I hadn't seen this thread but I'm not buying it. The scanner buffs around here had all the frequencies except the scrambled stuff up, and unless all of this negotiation was happening on one of those... Nah.

Nauga is right on this one. There'd be posts about folks hearing the fuel emergency call even if it was just part of the post-"knock it off" call on the team frequency.

It took the scanner folks about two hours to have every single primary and backup frequency for the forest fire stuff figured out today after the handoff to the USFS team, for example. Not just the usual stuff but even the handhelds at the tanker bases, and what not.

That info gets around lightning fast. At air shows about half to three quarters of it is guessed at before the show even begins.

POTUS' freqs? A little less known. Well usually known very well and fairly quickly but uncopyable encrypted P-25.
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I read this thread with deep skepticism. I can't believe a Thunderbird pilot would be so passive as to hold until he had a fuel emergency for something as ludicrous as a TFR. These guys are supposed to be the cream of the crop, not some weekend spam canner who runs out of fuel 'cuz he can't read a watch. Unless the Air Force has changed, the guys I flew with would have said, "screw the TFR, I need to get on the ground now so clear the %%%%in' runway."
 
There are many things to be skeptical about in this thread, starting with the fact that the information came to someone's inbox.
 
I heard it a long time ago. It is unlikely that just one of the airplanes ran out of fuel. Also witnesses commonly reported a loud bang followed by smoke. That isn't symptomatic of running out of gas in any airplane that I know of. But I'll admit I don't know much about military jets.
 
bflynn said:
I heard it a long time ago. It is unlikely that just one of the airplanes ran out of fuel. Also witnesses commonly reported a loud bang followed by smoke. That isn't symptomatic of running out of gas in any airplane that I know of. But I'll admit I don't know much about military jets.
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Not sure about a big Pratt or GE but in a little turbine (RR250) she makes several loud bangs and smoke before she runs out of gas. Sounds like a compressor stall.
 
We have an AGT-1500 in the M1A1 Abrams tank and I knew when my wingman lost power it was because of fuel starvation. His transfer pump failed and as he ran dry the old girl let out 3 or 4 loud bangs and then spooled down.
 
For maintenance reasons, you will occasionally shut a motor down by using other means than the throttle to starve the motor of gas (i.e. shut the valves that need to be open for fuel to flow). 1) it normally takes a really long time compared to what you might expect, and 2) it is like turning the knob on your gas grill off……..just a flameout and spool down of the motor. There might be something about small turboshafts that makes a bang when starved of fuel, but I haven't seen that in a jet fighter motor ever. Maybe nauga can comment, as he has probably done more of this kind of thing in the test world than I ever have.

edit: I'm not saying he didn't run out of gas, but that info isn't convincing to me. Most "witnesses" of any aircraft accident report some form of audible engine problems followed by the obligatory maneuver to avoid population areas prior to ejection. Neither of which generally have any basis in reality.
 
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