Three US F-15Es Lost Over Kuwait, Friendly Fire, All Survived, 3/1/26

I'm just offering what some fighter pilots I watch were saying. They basically said that F-15 fighter guys consider the Mud Hen to be a different plane.

It is pretty different, both in terms of mission, and from what I have gathered fighting both types, flying qualities as well. The -E got the "big motors" (-229s) later on, but either way, they have those huge conformal tanks which really add to the drag, as does the 2 place canopy. Not nearly the "air superiority" fighter that the A-D are/were. Fighting a Strike Eagle in the F/A-18 was like clubbing a baby seal.
 
I'm just offering what some fighter pilots I watch were saying. They basically said that F-15 fighter guys consider the Mud Hen to be a different plane.

Understood, but "the F15 is undefeated***" just doesn't have the same ring.
 
WWII happened just a few years before I came into being.

I never forgot. Never forgot the Alamo either.

I would bet that the Kuwait history books did not leave out the occupation nor did the people forget.
A few years ago I ran into a Dutch family that was here visiting. The father was the oldest, in his 40s. Part of the reason for the trip was so that they could visit the country that helped rescued them...meaning their country.
 
WWII happened just a few years before I came into being.

I never forgot. Never forgot the Alamo either.

I would bet that the Kuwait history books did not leave out the occupation nor did the people forget.


Memories and grudges are funny things.

When I bought an RX-7 back in 1986, one of my uncles thoroughly cussed me out for buying a car from "those $%#^&*^! Japanese ba$+ards." Meanwhile he had a Volkswagen parked in his driveway.
 
Meanwhile he had a Volkswagen parked in his driveway.
The Germans didn't bomb Pearl Harbor.

Reminds me of the old joke with the pilot telling war stories to high school students visiting a museum:
As we were over Germany we were attacked by a bunch of Fokkers...
The Fokker was a German plane from World War 2,
added the museum's PR guy.
Yes, replied the pilot, but those Fokkers were flying Messerschmitts.
 
Memories and grudges are funny things.
Went on a Normandy battlefield tour about ten years ago. One stop was Pegasus Bridge, where the British glider troops swooped in to capture the bridge before the Germans could blow it up.

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The two concrete memorials show where the first two British gliders stopped...QUITE close to the bridge.

On the other side of the stream is an old cafe that pre-dates the war. It's owned by the daughter of one of the glider troops. She banned Germans from the premises.
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Now, mind you, for holding REAL grudges, you have to be Irish.

Ronald (O'Neill) Wanttaja
 
I can think of a group that makes the Irish look like bunny rabbits and gold fish rolled into one... but, yes, I'm going to hide behind the POA ROC which will allow me to not identify the group.
 
I can think of a group that makes the Irish look like bunny rabbits and gold fish rolled into one... but, yes, I'm going to hide behind the POA ROC which will allow me to not identify the group.

Coward. We all know you’re talking about the MC...
 
There is more to this story. Give it a little more time.
 
Dad-who took Nipponese shrapnel to the temple as a young 11th ABN officer, and who near the end of his career was posted to Poitiers, FRA-would have some wry comments about Japanese cars (we had mazdas and hondas-along with ramblers) and the inability of the French to let go of grudges...
 
There is more to this story. Give it a little more time.
It’s not in the Government’s interest to dig into this, nor the Air Force’s, nor Kuwait’s. Nobody killed, easy to blow it off. No doubt some congresscritter will try to set up hearings, but probably that can be quashed.

Ron Wanttaja
 
I think the odds of this being intentional are slim. Green on blue was common on the ground side when dealing with Afghan soldiers but a Kuwaiti pilot? If it was intentional, this would be suicide for the pilot because it wouldn’t be hard to find sympathetic links to Iran.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it’s simple “fog of war.” Why does a Navy F-14 pilot shoot down a AF F-4? Why do 2 F-15s shoot down 2 UH-60s…with VID? Heck, how can a ship shoot down an Iranian airliner that’s clearly no threat? While these are old examples of fratricide, confirmation bias still exists today and is a powerful thing.

Also, I’ve worked with both foreign military pilots and foreign ATC and I can tell you in some parts of the world, they are not even close to our standards. There’s a lack of understanding their equipment and policy / procedures. Couple that with the fact they’re operating under English language when English isn’t their first language. I’ve seen some scary stuff when conducting joint multinational military ops.
 
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AH-64A Battalion Commander 1-1 Aviation smoked friendlies during the opening hours of Desert Storm following all the rules…after a ground hand off…he transposed two numbers in the fire control computer and slaved the sights to a friendly Bradley Fighting Vehicle…they did not stand a chance… we changed readback procedures within a few days but well past the 100hrs it took to end the war…part of the problem was a Field Grade front seater with limited time in the aircraft and proficiency probably the biggest issue.
 
I was the junior officer of the deck on a frigate during a naval gunfire exercise.

Watched in relative horror as that damn 5” gun turned around (despite interlocks) and pointed RIGHT AT the bridge.

Flippin near shot ourselves! Ya, fog of war may or may not be the case, but it’s CERTAINLY plausible and most likely.
 
The early stages of war or even doing joint exercises are always jacked up. The air space composition and the amount of coordination (or lack of) between inter agencies is mind boggling. Example, my first flight in country in Iraq, I’m approaching Balad from the south. “Balad tower, Army12345 6 miles south, inbound FARP.” Unfortunately none of our flights had the classified sector charts. Obviously when transmitting position over an unsecure freq in combat, it helps if it’s encoded. So, tower comes back with “Army12345, say your sector position.” Crickets. Who dropped the ball and didn’t add these charts to our kneeboard packets? No telling but that’s just an example of simple information not getting passed that could be crucial when the shooting starts.
 
So you were shot down and killed?
“But did you die!” :p Nope, we luckily survived. Kidding. While in practice a good idea, the odds of Hadji being able to 1) hear the transmission 2)interpret what I said and 3) just happen to be in the same area with an SA-7 would be slim. Still, opsec has its purpose and no point in showing our hand to the enemy if we don’t have to.
 
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Friend of mine bombed himself. Plugged the wrong grid into a gadget, fed it to a B-52, and ate a JDAM.

Anyone who has been to war knows it is a goat rodeo, especially at the start. Over time you sort out procedures to avoid foul ups, but the opening phases are always a cluster F. That goes 10x for multinational warfare.
 
BTW another good rule is the more advanced the technology, the higher the odds of mishaps.

Hard to think of a more technologically complex environment than the airspace over the Persian Gulf right now.
 
Friend of mine bombed himself. Plugged the wrong grid into a gadget, fed it to a B-52, and ate a JDAM.

Anyone who has been to war knows it is a goat rodeo, especially at the start. Over time you sort out procedures to avoid foul ups, but the opening phases are always a cluster F. That goes 10x for multinational warfare.
Man I remember that. I’ve got A Legion of Brothers on DVD. The basis for the movie 12 Strong. I think they cover that incident at the end. Absolutely amazing what those guys accomplished in like 6 months.
 
Man I remember that. I’ve got A Legion of Brothers on DVD. The basis for the movie 12 Strong. I think they cover that incident at the end. Absolutely amazing what those guys accomplished in like 6 months.

Yeah, it was the mission of a lifetime for those guys.

But like any op, there were plenty of screw ups, some hilarious and some horrible. Two US guys were killed in the B-52 incident.

Funny side story: one of the most famous horse soldier photos was of a widely despised senior commander. He showed up after the action and took a BS ride for the cameras.
 
Back when I was a kid (1970-71) I had a paper route. I read the paper every day from first to the last page. Except Sunday.

I remember one story where the Houston police had a stand off with a single gunman. The police had the house surrounded and was trying to talk the gunman into surrendering.

After a few hours a shot came from the house, and in the ensuing 2 hour gun battle 4 or 5 policemen were injured, by bullets.

When the police went inside, they found the gunman dead. 1 revolver with 1 spent round in the cylinder with the rest empty. 1 box of bullets minus 1 round. The gunman had one bullet wound that entered right under the chin with the exit wound through the top of his head.

Hmmmm...
 
Dad-who took Nipponese shrapnel to the temple as a young 11th ABN officer, and who near the end of his career was posted to Poitiers, FRA-would have some wry comments about Japanese cars (we had mazdas and hondas-along with ramblers) and the inability of the French to let go of grudges...
Off topic on the above thread drift. Flying with an older guy than me, maybe Korea Vet, me being a VN Era vet, can't remember the genesis of the conversation, but he corrects me as to us losing the VN "war" or whatever I had said. He says: "That's the only war we ever won. Have you seen a Vietnamese car being sold in the US?"
 
As suspected - for now they aren't talking. Local folks related to SJAFB know more but have been told to zip-it.

From local media.

Military leaders with U.S. Central Command confirmed that details related to three F-15E Strike Eagles that went down over Kuwait Sunday during Operation Epic Fury will not be released to the public.

“On background as a defense official, we do not discuss specific locations or units to protect operational security,” according to a U.S. Central Command official.

Seymour Johnson Air Force Base public affairs staff declined to comment on whether the base’s F-15E Strike Eagles were engaged in the conflict. Base officials directed all inquiries to U.S. Central Command.

U.S. military leaders said three American F-15E Strike Eagles were mistakenly shot down by Kuwaiti air defenses during an Iranian air assault, which occurred during an Iranian aircraft attack that included missiles and drones, according to the Associated Press.
All six crew members safely ejected from the fighter jets and were recovered.
“All six aircrew ejected safely, have been safely recovered, and are in stable condition,” according to a statement released by U.S. Central Command. “Kuwait has acknowledged this incident, and we are grateful for the efforts of the Kuwaiti defense forces and their support in this ongoing operation.

The cause of the incident is under investigation.

A witness, Ahmed al-Asar told the Associated Press that he heard the explosions “as one of the planes fell from the sky in flames.” He rushed to the scene along with many other people as the pilot parachuted down. Al-Asar said he thought the pilot was Iranian at first and then quickly recognized him to be an American.

U.S. Central Command officials said the fighter jets were accidentally shot down in Kuwait’s support efforts of the U.S. military Operation Epic Fury in Iran.

The F-15E’s are listed as a deployed U.S. asset on an information sheet about Operation Epic Fury provided by U.S. Central Command.

Military leaders with U.S. Central Command declined to disclose the number of troops deployed from Seymour Johnson AFB, also due to security concerns.

Operation Epic Fury began Saturday, Feb. 28, at the direction of President Trump.
According to U.S. Central Command, its forces are “striking targets to dismantle the Iranian regime’s security apparatus, prioritizing locations that pose an imminent threat.”

The F-15E fighter jets are among many other U.S. assets employed to go after targets, such as command and control centers, Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps joint headquarters and aerospace forces headquarters, integrated air defense systems, ballistic missile sites, Iranian navy ships and submarines, anti-ship missile sites and military communication capabilities, according to U.S. Central Command.
Commissioner Joe Daughtery, chairman of Wayne County Board of Commissioners, said Tuesday during the board meeting that residents should avoid speculation involving the aircraft.

“At this time, neither the 4th Fighter Wing nor U.S. Central Command has officially confirmed that the F-15E’s (that) were involved were Seymour assets,” Daughtery said. “Until that information is formally released it is important that we avoid speculation and rely only on verified sources.
“Seymour Johnson serves as a training base for F-15E Strike Eagle aviators. The F-15E community is a close one and when something like this happens, it is felt beyond a single duty station. We ask our citizens to keep all those connected in this mission in their thoughts and prayers and to allow official channels to provide confirmed information as it becomes available.”
 
Off topic on the above thread drift. Flying with an older guy than me, maybe Korea Vet, me being a VN Era vet, can't remember the genesis of the conversation, but he corrects me as to us losing the VN "war" or whatever I had said. He says: "That's the only war we ever won. Have you seen a Vietnamese car being sold in the US?"
Not yet!
 
Off topic on the above thread drift. Flying with an older guy than me, maybe Korea Vet, me being a VN Era vet, can't remember the genesis of the conversation, but he corrects me as to us losing the VN "war" or whatever I had said. He says: "That's the only war we ever won. Have you seen a Vietnamese car being sold in the US?"


My brother flew LOHs in Vietnam. He said it was a ****-show from the very beginning. The view from the top, where the intel assets, and the command structure did not perform the policy they said they implemented. By the time the end was near, it was a complete CF. He did three separate 6 month deployments, ending in 1972. By then, in VN the writing was on the wall, and the last 3 years were a mind-numbing effort at double-speak. I talked with him about it before I joined in 73. He advised against it, but I decided I might as well, there was no money for college, and I had a few tickets the judge said I should 'be all I could be'.
 
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The chatter is that the Kuwaiti F18 pilot was a member of the royal family
 
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