This flying seems awfully expensive...

FormerHangie said:
Nah. We own a 21 foot bowrider. It's kept in a dry stack marina, which is the most expensive way you can keep a boat like this, $4400 a year. Fuel is about $600, insurance $250, maintenance $500 because we have the marina do it, taxes $300. Depreciation is surprisingly low at around $1200. For that money, I could rent an ancient 172 or Archer for 35 hours a year and a renter's policy.
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Hang onto the boat for a while and watch that maintenance cost go up. Especially in salt water.
 
Pinecone said:
A NICE sports car will cost you more than a nice plane.
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”nice” is rather subjective. If we’re talking about a Bugatti Centodieci then sure, my flying costs less than $10 million. But I can think of a few sports cars cheaper than an airplane that I would consider nice
 
I got the plane and the expenses of solo long term ownership. Really only flying to keep the plane reliable, except for long trips usually yearly. But I’m continuing to work to support this habit.

Half Fast said:
And you should try to add up what racing sports cars costs in dollars / hour. Fifteen years ago a typical race weekend cost me at least $2k if nothing got bent or broken (and something always did) and I got maybe a couple of hours of track time, usually less. $1k per hour, and I was racing in one of the least expensive classes.
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I’m just foraying into club racing or autocross, not to be a serious racer, but just for the occasional kick. Since I own a relatively slow but good handling classic Vette, I don’t plan on getting too far into the limits, and maybe only a couple times a season. I’m hoping to minimize the added expenses to tires and brakes and driving it to location. Everyone’s admonition may make me regret the new hobby’s expensiveness. Maybe I’ll have to work two jobs now! ;)
 
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Zeldman said:
WOW.!!

I remember my dad buying a horse at auction for my sister back in 1965. I am pretty sure it was for less than 20 bucks.
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That's a deal. Our two were $100 each. They were stabled at the NM state fairgrounds, and we lived up near the mountain in the NE Heights. It was really exciting to get horses.

Then I found out someone had to drive me and my siblings to the fairgrounds every stinkin' day to feed them and muck the stalls, and they had to be ridden every few days. This was not something I bargained for.

The shine wore off quickly.

:biggrin:
 
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Aviation is an expensive hobby, but its not my most expensive hobby ever...try a family that races motocross (or quite frankly, any form of motorized racing). Now THAT is an expensive hobby.
 
I work in aviation because I love aviation.
I own a plane because I love aviation.
I'm on this forum because I love aviation.

Reasons that are important to me that allow me to "justify" having my own airplane for now.
Availability - it's always available. I don't have to compete with club members or renters. I don't have to be back a certain time for the next person. I can take it on a trip without accruing additional daily charges. It's always hangared and clean.
Safety, Reliability and Confidence- I know every inch of my airplane and I personally maintain it to a high standard and i know that it is as safe as possible. I always preflight and post-flight. I don't have to worry that the following was done on the previous flight:
1. Overstressed.
2. Slammed onto the runway.
3. Engine operated improperly.
4. Flight controls allowed to slam in the wind when parked.
5. Switches moved, checklist misplaced, cockpit left in disarray, pitot cover left off...
6. A squawk not reported.
In my area, there are rental aircraft I wouldn’t take around the patch much less on a XC flight.
Potential investment-
I'm no accoutant. Unless I'm mistaken, rental fees or club fees are expenses that most likely cannot be recovered. Since I bought my plane 2.5 years ago, it has went up in price significantly. So much so that all of my expenses to date have not surpassed the increase in value of my plane. Not even close. As a note, I fly about 100hrs a year. When I sell it one day, I anticipate i will recover some of my addiction money versus nothing. Hope I'm right.

It's mine-
I can make it my own and tinker. There's a lot to be said about the benefits of tinkering on your own plane.

P.S- My comments are not meant to be snarky but in fact encouraging. If you are in a position to do it I say go for it!
As I have previously stated, I love aviation!
 
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Country Flier said:
Aviation is an expensive hobby, but its not my most expensive hobby ever...try a family that races motocross (or quite frankly, any form of motorized racing). Now THAT is an expensive hobby.
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Forget the racing, family (especially children) are expensive no matter what hobbies they have.

You have a limited amount of disposable money available to spend and precious time to enjoy it, I don’t begrudge anyone for how they spend it.
 
This prompted me to do the math (gross).
For 2 years, 1 month and 2 days, Owning a 1961 Comanche has cost $51,175 in exchange for 362 hours of defying gravity in style ($140 / hour).
This doesn't include hotels, Oshkoshes, Sun n Funs, Checkrides, CFI fees, etc.

Now, $27k of that is fuel. Fly less, spend less.

Is it worth it? I don't think so but I'm also not going to quit.
So what I think I have figured out is this is all pretty irrational and I'd say, don't ever do the math.
 
Half Fast said:
Value per dollar? HAH!

Try scuba. The last time I went down to Palm Beach for a 2-tank boat dive, I spent a little over $200 for an hour of bottom time. My plane costs less than that per hour to operate.
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Try mixed gas deep wreck diving. An hour on the Doria (which required three dives, one a day, plus a day out and a day back) used to cost about $3000, assuming you already had the $8000 or so in gear needed to do it. And helium costs have tripled and diesel almost doubled since I stopped diving trimix.
 
GaryM said:
Try mixed gas deep wreck diving. An hour on the Doria (which required three dives, one a day, plus a day out and a day back) used to cost about $3000, assuming you already had the $8000 or so in gear needed to do it. And helium costs have tripled and diesel almost doubled since I stopped diving trimix.
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Yep, same with cave diving, minus the boat charges.
 
Velocity173 said:
That mission isn’t all that expensive. So it’ll take a few $$$ to get it airworthy. You can afford it.
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That budget gets blown out the window when you add in the Speedy Dry and drip pans.

Nauga,
like a sieve
 
I earned my PPL in 2020 and wanted to buy a plane, but fortunately I have access to a club that has 4 Archers and 2 Saratogas. So scheduling hasn’t been a big constraint. Mostly weather and family schedules are the only limitations since I don’t yet have my IR. I flew about 40 hours last year and only cost me just over $9000 for membership fees and wet rental rates. So for me, this makes this hobby very affordable for my needs.
Also fortunately my wife has no interest in animals, much less horses. So I’m counting my lucky stars there.

Edit: I should add my wife’s only “hobby” is her monthly gym membership ($180/mo), so I’m feeling reaaalllllyyy fortunate right now…
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
This prompted me to do the math (gross).
For 2 years, 1 month and 2 days, Owning a 1961 Comanche has cost $51,175 in exchange for 362 hours of defying gravity in style ($140 / hour).
This doesn't include hotels, Oshkoshes, Sun n Funs, Checkrides, CFI fees, etc.

Now, $27k of that is fuel. Fly less, spend less.

Is it worth it? I don't think so but I'm also not going to quit.
So what I think I have figured out is this is all pretty irrational and I'd say, don't ever do the math.
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I saw a guy do a video on the cost of airplanes once............
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
This prompted me to do the math (gross).
For 2 years, 1 month and 2 days, Owning a 1961 Comanche has cost $51,175 in exchange for 362 hours of defying gravity in style ($140 / hour).
This doesn't include hotels, Oshkoshes, Sun n Funs, Checkrides, CFI fees, etc.

Now, $27k of that is fuel. Fly less, spend less.

Is it worth it? I don't think so but I'm also not going to quit.
So what I think I have figured out is this is all pretty irrational and I'd say, don't ever do the math.
Click to expand...

You fly a lot. I would argue the average owner probably flies about half of what you fly. It certainly is true for me since I bought the Comanche. I used to fly 120+ hours per year but with the Comanche I only got just over 90 despite taking more and farther trips - it just flies much faster lol.

So, let's cut fuel cost in half, that means, based on your calculation, the average owner would spend about $12,000 per year on stuff and just under $7,000 per year on gas. That's a total of under $20,000 per year on a hobby. That is not bad. And this is for a sweet a** plane like a Comanche which is also rather thirsty! I doubt there are a whole lot of other hobbies for less than $20,000 per year.

If some of the plane trips you make throughout the year would have otherwise been conducted by commercial airline or car, that would effectively reduce the $20,000 figure as cars need gas too and airline tickets cost money. If part of the flying was for business reasons, that would reduce the cost as well, due to potential tax write offs. Then there is a bit of opportunity cost to consider in that scenario as well. For example, when I have to go see my employer, after a 7+ hour drive, I would usually arrive, fall into my hotel bed and do nothing for the rest of the day. That same trip is 2-3 hours of flying, I usually arrive and can still get some work done, have some meetings, etc. That's worth something. Same when going on vacation for that matter - driving to Florida is a three day adventure. It's basically driving, sleeping x 3. When we fly, we can do it in one or two days, depending on weather. Even if we split the flight, we stay somewhere overnight and still get to do some sightseeing, eat at a restaurant, sleep in the next morning - that's worth something you can't really put a dollar amount to.

My boss is a part owner in a CJ3. Since I brokered the deal for him, I know his exact cost. Forget about the acquisition cost of his share, his annual "overhead cost" alone is nearly $100,000 and that's before he spends a minute flying the plane. Now, that's some serious money for a hobby lol.
 
FormerHangie said:
Nah. We own a 21 foot bowrider. It's kept in a dry stack marina, which is the most expensive way you can keep a boat like this, $4400 a year. Fuel is about $600, insurance $250, maintenance $500 because we have the marina do it, taxes $300. Depreciation is surprisingly low at around $1200. For that money, I could rent an ancient 172 or Archer for 35 hours a year and a renter's policy.
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A 21 foot bow rider is like owning a Cub or Champ. Go diddle around a bit. Try something with a cabin in the upper 20s. :D
 
The Sky Arrow cost me relatively little to own and fly in 2023:

MOGAS $298.02
AVGAS $27.45
MAINT $100 (transponder cert)
ACCESSORIES $1,098 (net for 2 pr LightSpeed Zulu headsets after selling old Sierras to a forum member
INSURANCE $1,509
TOTAL $3,032.47

Only 19.7 flown in our Sky Arrow. Works out to $153.93/hr, with the insurance about half of that. We need to fly more. That's a given. And there are caveats:

1) No hangar or tiedown expense but we did have to build a hangar home to avoid those costs.
2) No allowance for overhaul reserve or 5-year rubber replacement expense.
3) No cost for the Annual Condition Inspection, since I do my own.
4) I get WingX free as an instructor.
5) I did make $425 doing a tiny bit of instructing.

Still an expensive hobby, but Lord knows there are a lot of hobbies that cost a LOT more.
 
Pinecone said:
Have you ever owned a boat? Unless it is a very small boat, it will cost near aviation money.

A NICE sports car will cost you more than a nice plane.
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My last boat was a 32k Everglades w twin 350's it burned nearly 45 GPH, my plane burns 6GPH in my case, aviation was cheaper :)
 
Flying can be as expensive or cheap as you want. A few years back I was flying a $7500 airplane that burned 2 GPH. It was cheap enough that I didn't bother with hull insurance, and hangar (covered tiedown) was $120. It wasn't very fast and didn't go far, but it was a lot of fun.

Experimental, of course, so maintenance costs are just the cost of uncertified parts and the annual condition inspection. I usually fly a bit over 50 hours per year.

Before that it was ultralights, which were even cheaper.

Now I'm flying a plane worth around $25K (still cheaper than any new car), burning 7GPH, paying double that for hangar and have hull insurance because I can't afford to replace it, but still considerably less than the OP or most of the people who have posted in this thread. It's not practical transportation, but that's not why I fly.
 
What plane gets in the air for $25k? Impressive
 
You can find free parking, you can fly a smaller or more economical airplane to get your insurance to under $1000 per year. You have options.

I’m sure people spend more on food or alcohol.
 
WDD said:
What plane gets in the air for $25k? Impressive
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In my case a Hatz biplane, but you can find T-Crafts, Champs, C-120/140/150, etc., and of course lots of experimentals in that price range or less.
 
www.trade-a-plane.com

1946 ERCOUPE 415-C Single Engine Piston for sale - 2414321

1946 ERCOUPE 415-C Single Engine Piston for sale located in Stuart FL from 2414321. Search 1000's of Aircraft listings updated daily from 100's of dealers & private sellers.
www.trade-a-plane.com www.trade-a-plane.com

The ad says Stuart but that photo was taken at Winter Haven. The ramp is being re-paved so the plane may have been moved. Asking $28.5k.
 
Pinecone said:
A 21 foot bow rider is like owning a Cub or Champ. Go diddle around a bit. Try something with a cabin in the upper 20s. :D
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Yeah, a Cub seats two, the boat seats eight. A Cub has 65 hp, the boat has 360 hp. The big difference is that the whole family likes, and can operate the boat, and the needed license was free rather than $15,000+.
 
kaiser said:
For me, I’d rather spend 3x the money, go 1/3 the speed in a clapped out piston pounder.
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You do have a knack for renting the very clapped out piston pounders.
 
asicer said:
”nice” is rather subjective. If we’re talking about a Bugatti Centodieci then sure, my flying costs less than $10 million. But I can think of a few sports cars cheaper than an airplane that I would consider nice
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A lot of sports cars more expensive than a plane. Even some sporty cars.

Realize, you put opt out a Dodge Challenger to over $100,000 these days.
 
Our 21' bow rider is able to be stored at home and has for the 30 years it has been owned by my family. It has had the transom rebuilt (by me) and the v8 engine refreshed (also by me) in that 30yr span. Other than those expenses (roughly $5K all-in) it has been pretty much fuel and annual oil changes. Pretty cheap entertainment compared to just about any flying option. If I were forced to spend $200/mo in slip or storage fees, I would feel differently about that hobby.

Storage in a shared hangar is around $450/mo which means I'd spend more in storage costs for an airplane in one year than I have for all repairs on my boat in 3 decades. Obviously boats get more expensive and complex when you move up to cabin cruisers or boats in harsher environments (salt water), but I'd have to have a 30'+ cruiser before it started looking like aviation money.
 
Pinecone said:
A lot of sports cars more expensive than a plane. Even some sporty cars.

Realize, you put opt out a Dodge Challenger to over $100,000 these days.
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Don't have any new ones. Never liked the new ones enough to buy one. Especially after driving my FIL 300
I have been driving and working on Challengers since 1976. These were cheap to play with compared to buying a new one.

MVC-006S-2.jpg

$350 a month for the t hangar.
IMG_3489_p7ym8Move4F3K4SZiXnPd9.JPG
 
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Pinecone said:
Realize, you put opt out a Dodge Challenger to over $100,000 these days.
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Yeah, but what's that Dodge gonna cost to operate? The up-front cost isn't what scares folks about an airplane.
 
Skymac said:
I just tell anyone looking at owning an airplane, if you can’t afford to automatically write off 10k a year like it never existed for starters then you might be in the right position to own a plane.
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um....
 
SoonerAviator said:
Storage in a shared hangar is around $450/mo which means I'd spend more in storage costs for an airplane in one year
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That is very unique to your situation though. Here where I live, communal hangar is $200 per month and individual T-Hangar is $350 per month. On the flip side, a boat slip for a 28 ft long boat (I have my eyes on one to possibly buy this spring) at a nice marina with power supply is $4,000 for the season of six months, which checks out to $667 per month, almost double what I pay to keep my plane indoors!
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
This prompted me to do the math (gross).
…
Is it worth it? I don't think so but I'm also not going to quit.
So what I think I have figured out is this is all pretty irrational and I'd say, don't ever do the math.
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@SixPapaCharlie’s axiom-
Don’t ever do the math.

Damn straight. How rational is it that we love to pull back on the stick at 65 kts, so badly that we pay boatloads for the feeling?

Not very rational. Neither is falling in love, yet gazillions choose to do it every day.
 
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