This awesome airplane is not right for you if you need to see the logbooks

mandm

mandm

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Display name:
Michael
Sent an enquiry on an airplane for sale and here’s the response (last paragraph) from someone I’ve never talked to before.

Old people syndrome or old people sales tactics? Not the first “old” person I’ve met that claims I’ve talked to them in the past.

Someone at the airport claims I called them for advice on my hangar prior to buying it, umm nooooo. Now a douche selling an airplane? Claims they sent me the logs 6 months ago (aka their airplane isn’t selling since it’s still for sale), and I’ve searched my phone for their email, name and tail number and no results…

“I think I sent those logs to you a while back. I'm willing to share the logs with anyone who wants to come and see the airplane first. It's that nice and probably not the right one for you if you have to see logs to make its value. There's nothing disconcerting in the logs. I work on a trust basis.”
 
So I had a couple espresso martini’s so I decided to reply, now I’m being called “a broker”

I explained that I have an Arrow and I need something faster.

Now I’m getting selected log entry photos sent via email.

But heck I’m already feeling the Red Flag as you said…
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
Sounds like somebody I almost knew. They were selling a vehicle from Facebook Marketplace. Transaction fell apart when they mentioned they had to be paid in Bitcoin.
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before seeing the vehicle
 
"I'm glad you work on a Trust Basis so I kept the log books. I sent Kevin Lacey from Airplane Repo to pick up the Airplane. Trust me, the checks in the mail."
 
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If I wasted any more time at all on that it would be to reply, "Thank you for your informative response."
I never understood the desire to argue with someone who doesn't want to sell you something.

Nauga,
who doesn't need the last word.
 
as someone who has sold a couple planes - trust me as it isnt any more fun on the other side. There are so many tire kickers, and just as many dishonest buyers out there as there are sellers. its the wild wild west. . . lol I dont know how many people who promised this or that, or will be here this or that or will have the deposit in escrow (with a reputable escrow, not your friend) that Ive gotten while trying to sell my cessna before. . .
 
mandm said:
Sent an enquiry on an airplane for sale and here’s the response (last paragraph) from someone I’ve never talked to before.

Old people syndrome or old people sales tactics? Not the first “old” person I’ve met that claims I’ve talked to them in the past.

Someone at the airport claims I called them for advice on my hangar prior to buying it, umm nooooo. Now a douche selling an airplane? Claims they sent me the logs 6 months ago (aka their airplane isn’t selling since it’s still for sale), and I’ve searched my phone for their email, name and tail number and no results…

“I think I sent those logs to you a while back. I'm willing to share the logs with anyone who wants to come and see the airplane first. It's that nice and probably not the right one for you if you have to see logs to make its value. There's nothing disconcerting in the logs. I work on a trust basis.”
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Checked a Tiger in Arizona years ago, couldn't get the logs scanned ... before traveling asked every which way to Sunday if there were any incidents, accident or known damage history ... response was "no" ... I traveled with a buddy and found an off airport "incident" into 8 feet of salt water with sudden engine stoppage" in the log book entered by the mechanic with no engine tear down "because that engine only had 25 hours since over-haul" according to the seller:rofl:

Had another one (also Arizona) for an Arrow, traveled and plane looked to be in annual or major repair on arrival so now way to go on a test flight ... despite old owner saying it was "ready to go, come and see it" ...
 
That sounds like a couple of red flags. I'd be wholly disinterested in pursuing the chat any further. Hope you're able to get to the bottom of that pretty quickly without too much headache!

... And what does it even mean when someone says they work on a "trust basis", when you have absolutely no foundation or basis to believe the person to begin with? I mean, it's just a stranger off the internet lol.
 
Not defending the guy, but your perspective may change when you sell an airplane...
 
When I get around to selling the cherokee, I’ll make as many copies of the logbook dvd and mail to anyone interested. They can pay the $5 for the FAA cd. But I want $25 up front for time, effort and postage.

We’ll see who’s really interested.
 
murphey said:
When I get around to selling the cherokee, I’ll make as many copies of the logbook dvd and mail to anyone interested. They can pay the $5 for the FAA cd. But I want $25 up front for time, effort and postage.

We’ll see who’s really interested.
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I got an email from POA that said $10, sounds like you changed that to $25 haha.

Take photos, upload to Dropbox, share the link, no need to mail anything.
 
idahoflier said:
Not defending the guy, but your perspective may change when you sell an airplane...
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Yes, I find myself on both sides of a sale quite often these days. Many sellers believe their plane is top of the market. Many buyers are willing to pay top dollar for a fresh clean aircraft that's going to be low maintenance for the next 5 years and/or 500 hours.

Unfortunately, 50 year old aircraft are not going to be free of problems. If it's low time it will have dried out seals, gaskets, bearings, bushings and hoses. High time aircraft with lots of good maintenance history maybe beat up and worn out. Either way the buyer beware.

There's only one way to get an aircraft that is "LIKE NEW"..... Order a new aircraft.
 
100% with Nauga here. "I work on a trust basis" isn't a red flag to me, it's a full stop. It's part of a setup.

"I've talked with you before" isn't a sales tactic. It's the opening of a con. And as such it's not just an opener, it's part of their vetting process. This is about investments in particular, but it's pretty universal:


Clearly I don't know with certainty that the person you talked with is attempting something dishonest, but it is clear to me that they're using techniques associated with thieves. Duck/quack kind of thing.
 
Albany Tom said:
100% with Nauga here. "I work on a trust basis" isn't a red flag to me, it's a full stop. It's part of a setup.

"I've talked with you before" isn't a sales tactic. It's the opening of a con. And as such it's not just an opener, it's part of their vetting process. This is about investments in particular, but it's pretty universal:


Clearly I don't know with certainty that the person you talked with is attempting something dishonest, but it is clear to me that they're using techniques associated with thieves. Duck/quack kind of thing.
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I was taught ... "If it sounds too good to be true, it is."
 
murphey said:
Nope, no dropbox, no links. You serious? Prove it.
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And it could easily be argued that it is you who wouldn't be serious about selling by using such an antiquated way of sharing the logs. I want to see the logs, but now have to send you money and you'll snail mail be a CD? NEXT......
 
rsleeds said:
And it could easily be argued that it is you who wouldn't be serious about selling by using such an antiquated way of sharing the logs. I want to see the logs, but now have to send you money and you'll snail mail be a CD? NEXT......
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Yeah. It sounds good in theory, but if I'm hot on the trail of a few planes and one of them says that to me, there's no chance I'm going to go along with that. The exception would be if you're selling a rare or exceptional plane, that is already documented to be exceptional in some way that I don't have to buy the cd to find out about.

In my opinion, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water with that approach.
 
rsleeds said:
And it could easily be argued that it is you who wouldn't be serious about selling by using such an antiquated way of sharing the logs. I want to see the logs, but now have to send you money and you'll snail mail be a CD? NEXT......
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Salty said:
Yeah. It sounds good in theory, but if I'm hot on the trail of a few planes and one of them says that to me, there's no chance I'm going to go along with that. The exception would be if you're selling a rare or exceptional plane, that is already documented to be exceptional in some way that I don't have to buy the cd to find out about.

In my opinion, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water with that approach.
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Whether it's a buyer's market or a seller's market might factor into my reaction to that.
 
If they're serious, and know what they're doing, the buyer is going to spend the $5 to get the CD from the FAA and won't need my logs until they review the FAA disc. At that point, I'm open to discussion.
 
I sold 5 planes and bought 6. I always uploaded and made available the last few pages (5ish years) of the logs to anyone via Dropbox or as photos in the ad. If someone wanted to see more, they had to come see the plane. If someone had specific questions about certain ADs, I would give the information over the phone. On the flip side as a buyer, I expected at the very least the above. If the seller did not cooperate, I didn't buy his/her plane, simple as that. I've come across some really funny people during the plane buying process.
 
the flip side to some of the discussioni here - it's like people expect the seller to cater to whatever is convenient for the buyer.

Seller: I have all the paper logs
buyer: no, I want to see it electronically

Seller: I have all the logs in pdf
buyer: No, I want to see all the logs in searchable format

Seller: I have all the logs in <insert file format>
buyer: No, I want to see all the logs in some other (ancient/obscure/rare/proprietary) format

buyer: I want the logs on drop box. No I want them sent to me via icloud. No I want them sent to me via googledrive. No, I want I want I want I want.
 
Being called a broker. That happened to me a few years ago when I asked an A&P about doing a pre buy. I was trying to be discrete when the market was hot and didn’t want to identify the airplane tail number just yet, but he was being difficult. Once he reached the point of thinking I was a broker, not a buyer, his old grumpiness set in. “Trust me, I’m an expert.” He wasn’t as great as he thought of himself.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Computers don’t even come with DVD/CD drives anymore.
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RussR said:
Exactly. Might as well send me the info on a floppy disk for all the good it's going to do me. No, if the seller required me to pay for a CD with info, I'd laugh and move on.
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The boomer mentality is STRONG. $15 for an external CD Drive. Your technical ineptitude is not the FAA's or the sellers problem.

 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I sold 5 planes and bought 6. I always uploaded and made available the last few pages (5ish years) of the logs to anyone via Dropbox or as photos in the ad. If someone wanted to see more, they had to come see the plane. If someone had specific questions about certain ADs, I would give the information over the phone. On the flip side as a buyer, I expected at the very least the above. If the seller did not cooperate, I didn't buy his/her plane, simple as that. I've come across some really funny people during the plane buying process.
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This seems like a good plan. If a buyer is prepared enough to know the ADs or other specifics about the airplane, he’s prepared to look at the logbooks. If the seller gets upset about pointed questions about the airplane’s history, it’s probably worth passing on the airplane.
 
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