Thinking of going Sport Pilot

luvflyin

luvflyin

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
17,444
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Display Name
Luvflyin
Home Airfield
KVUO
Class III due soon. No particular problems other than just gettin effin old and thinking maybe why risk a failure or whatever it’s called on the Medical. Have Drivers License. So do I just not do it, quit flying things that need it and start flying Sport Panes under Sport Rules. Or do I gotta actually do something. Yeah it’s in FAR 61, but youse guys are easier to read.
 
Self verify before every flight and have a valid drivers license.

basic med is not much more. Just have a doc sign you off. No paperwork goes to Faa.
 
Salty said:
Self verify before every flight and have a valid drivers license.

basic med is not much more. Just have a doc sign you off. No paperwork goes to Faa.
Click to expand...

I always self verify. I didn’t think you even needed Basic Med for Sport.
 
You may wish to take a quick look at 61.315.

At some point, I convinced myself that the limitations for B,C,D airspace or endorsements Vh above below 87 knots do not apply if you have a private ticket.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
You may wish to take a quick look at 61.315.

At some point, I convinced myself that the limitations for B,C,D airspace or endorsements Vh above below 87 knots do not apply if you have a private ticket.
Click to expand...

Ok. Read it. It points you to .325. All of those things would have been required to get a PPL, so I’m convinced to.
 
The fastest sport plane? 120 kts, because that is the limit. If you want to buy, they're all still pretty new, so expect six figures. Some of the old grasshoppers qualify for sport. If you want 80 kts low and slow, they're fun too.

Then again, with BasicMed, your personal doctor signs you off and you can continue to fly anything that is
  • under 6000 lbs
  • 6 seats or less
  • no greater than 250 kts
  • under FL180
That includes complex, high performance, multi engine, float plane, IFR, aerobatics, tail dragger, nose dragger, experimental, whatever as long as it meets the rules. I don't know what you're flying, but you have a lot more airplane choices from just a simple doctor's visit.

Look at it this way - would your doctor sign you off as being fit to drive a 6700 lb Chevy Navigator SUV through the streets with little kids playing? If he has no concerns about that, then a 3000 lb airplane should be nothing.
 
Last edited:
luvflyin said:
Cool. Now, what’s the fastest Sport plane out there. Say 400 lbs of people and stuff and an endurance of say 2+30 at Max cruise.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that all LSA's are limited to a top speed of 120 kts. @ msl. So, while some models do cruise at a higher airspeed than others, the differences are usually not that significant. I see IAS's of 105-108 kts. at 2500-3500 msl at 5200-5300 rpm. I did fly an Evektor on a demo flight and I think we never broke 95 kts. IAS, but we weren't really doing speed checks. The older LSA's seem to have higher payloads. My P2004 (2006)Tecnam Bravo has a payload of 540 lbs. That translates to a cabin load of right at 380 lbs. with full fuel. Fuel capacity is 26.4 gallons, giving a endurance of 5+ hours. That means, of course, that the fuel load can be reduced, say, by 10 gals./60 lbs. and still have 3+/- hours endurance. To my knowledge, there is no maximum cabin load. Another nice facet is that it appears (by my calculations) that as long as the maximum gross weight is not exceeded, c.g. is never an issue. I am not familiar with the other LSA models to give details specific to them.
 
WDD said:
Path of least resistance - Let your current 3rd class expire, go to Basic Med.

Sport planes are very hard to find to rent, limiting on weight, etc.
Click to expand...
You don't even let the medical expire. Even though I still have almost two years left on my medical, I got my PCP to sign off basic med at my last physical. That and the few minutes it took to burn through the Mayo course and take the exam and I'm doubly covered.
 
Go Basic Med then if you have one of the big 3 (cardiac, stroke, mental) and you are still healthy enough to fly go LSA. Not dealing directly with the FAA on health matters is priceless.
 
luvflyin said:
Ok. Read it. It points you to .325. All of those things would have been required to get a PPL, so I’m convinced to.
Click to expand...


I just got my sport CFI last month.
You are correct, if you have/had a PPL you are "automatically" covered on these things.

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
You may wish to take a quick look at 61.315.

At some point, I convinced myself that the limitations for B,C,D airspace or endorsements Vh above below 87 knots do not apply if you have a private ticket.
Click to expand...
 
luvflyin said:
Cool. Now, what’s the fastest Sport plane out there. Say 400 lbs of people and stuff and an endurance of say 2+30 at Max cruise.
Click to expand...
Arion LS-1 Lightning. It looks like an ordinary LSA, until you notice the Vne is +180 kts. It's got 4-5 hours range.
 
luvflyin said:
Cool. Now, what’s the fastest Sport plane out there. Say 400 lbs of people and stuff and an endurance of say 2+30 at Max cruise.
Click to expand...
that will be a problem.LSAs are two-seaters. i only have time in a Cessna 162 (Skycatcher) and a Remos G3/GX. the 162 has baggage room but you'll never get 400-lbs of people and stuff into it unless you and your passenger are thin. as i recall the baggage area was rated for 40-lbs but check. the Remos had a much better payload easily accomodating two 200-lb people and a full load of fuel but it has virtually no baggage area. if you need more than 2-seats or 400-lbs of people and stuff than going SPL is not for you. consider Basic Med.
 
rk911 said:
that will be a problem.LSAs are two-seaters. i only have time in a Cessna 162 (Skycatcher) and a Remos G3/GX. the 162 has baggage room but you'll never get 400-lbs of people and stuff into it unless you and your passenger are thin. as i recall the baggage area was rated for 40-lbs but check. the Remos had a much better payload easily accomodating two 200-lb people and a full load of fuel but it has virtually no baggage area. if you need more than 2-seats or 400-lbs of people and stuff than going SPL is not for you. consider Basic Med.
Click to expand...

400 lbs of people included pilot and passenger
 
luvflyin said:
400 lbs of people included pilot and passenger
Click to expand...
All LSA are 1320lbs MGW.

SkyCatcher is ~850lbs empty and 144lbs of fuel with tanks to full leaving 326lbs for pilot, passenger and baggage.

An RV12 is ~775lbs empty and 120lbs of full fuel, so that's 425lbs (hope you pack light).
 
luvflyin said:
Cool. Now, what’s the fastest Sport plane out there. Say 400 lbs of people and stuff and an endurance of say 2+30 at Max cruise.
Click to expand...
Had a Sling LSA for 5 yrs and 1,500 hrs., landed in all the lower 48 states. Could get from Los Angeles to New York with just two stops, flight planned for 115kts at <4 gph mogas. Then sold it back to dealer for more than I payed for it (for use in their flight academy.) Started flying it with sport pilot cert, but eventually got PPL and IFR in it before I sold. Don't expect to have as useful or economical plane ever again, I also consider it the best-flying / easiest-to-land of the LSA's. (don't have anything to do with company except they treated me right.)

As others have noted, you don't need to do anything to fly under sport pilot privileges, just don't fly when you're unwell/unsafe. One downside with Sport Pilot, you can't fly at night (as well as 2 place only, 120kt max, No IFR, etc.)
 
Love the idea of Sport Pilot. I actually started that route by taking the written, but I had to start training in a Skyhawk with a regular CFI because I couldn't find an LSA instructor local. Then after digging a lot I found there were not nor ever going to be any LSA's to rent where I lived. So I "gave up" and did the 3rd class medical and got the PPL. Which in in hindsight is more suited for the type of flying I like to do. After viewing Paul B's video on LSA accident rates (landing accidents), it seems that if they let LSA's get heavier they might actually have a better safety record.
 
You can fly an LSA with a PPL and Basic Med, but you can't fly a C172 under Sport rules. PPL + Basic med give you more options. Unless you have specific reasons why you'd fail a Basic Med examination there's really no reason not to do it. In a few cases insurance is easier to get with PPL + Basic med than with Sport + No Med.
 
Cogito said:
Had a Sling LSA for 5 yrs and 1,500 hrs., landed in all the lower 48 states. Could get from Los Angeles to New York with just two stops, flight planned for 115kts at <4 gph mogas. Then sold it back to dealer for more than I payed for it (for use in their flight academy.) Started flying it with sport pilot cert, but eventually got PPL and IFR in it before I sold. Don't expect to have as useful or economical plane ever again, I also consider it the best-flying / easiest-to-land of the LSA's. (don't have anything to do with company except they treated me right.)

As others have noted, you don't need to do anything to fly under sport pilot privileges, just don't fly when you're unwell/unsafe. One downside with Sport Pilot, you can't fly at night (as well as 2 place only, 120kt max, No IFR, etc.)
Click to expand...


Craig, good to see/hear from you. I haven't figured out how to send a private message.
We sold 516NG to their mechanic, so it went back to Torrance.
 
WDD said:
Love the idea of Sport Pilot. I actually started that route by taking the written, but I had to start training in a Skyhawk with a regular CFI because I couldn't find an LSA instructor local. Then after digging a lot I found there were not nor ever going to be any LSA's to rent where I lived. So I "gave up" and did the 3rd class medical and got the PPL. Which in in hindsight is more suited for the type of flying I like to do. After viewing Paul B's video on LSA accident rates (landing accidents), it seems that if they let LSA's get heavier they might actually have a better safety record.
Click to expand...

Looks like finally the LSA weight increase, among other changes, is on the horizon in 23

https://bydanjohnson.com/better-new...ulation-clarifications-to-earlier-statements/



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
If you already have a valid medical, why wouldn’t you do basic med over sport pilot?
 
Nsconductor said:
Looks like finally the LSA weight increase, among other changes, is on the horizon in 23

https://bydanjohnson.com/better-new...ulation-clarifications-to-earlier-statements/

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

Good news that there are improvements coming someday (in my lifetime?)! But you do have to love the FAA.

Option 1 - A plane that weighs up to 2700 lbs can be an LSA. And, that's all you need.

Option 2 - New class of plane LPA which has LSA as a subset, LSA now defined by a power curve chart, weight of aircraft variable depending on something - maybe heavier than current LSA, maybe not, but any plane currently designated and LSA will be grandfathered, Sport Pilots may not fly an LPA, you probably need a PPL for an LPA but not an LSA. And........
 
WDD said:
Good news that there are improvements coming someday (in my lifetime?)! But you do have to love the FAA.

Option 1 - A plane that weighs up to 2700 lbs can be an LSA. And, that's all you need.

Option 2 - New class of plane LPA which has LSA as a subset, LSA now defined by a power curve chart, weight of aircraft variable depending on something - maybe heavier than current LSA, maybe not, but any plane currently designated and LSA will be grandfathered, Sport Pilots may not fly an LPA, you probably need a PPL for an LPA but not an LSA. And........
Click to expand...
According to the formula he posted, weight is not relevant. It’s a factor of power and wing size.
 
WDD said:
Wing size or wing loading?
Click to expand...

Last I heard what is being discussed is:

200 horsepower hard point
50 knot stall
1.2 Power Index
Where:
Ip = {P/S}1/3 (that's the cube root of P/S)...
S = wing area in square feet,
P = maximum rated power in horsepower at sea level and standard temperature.
 
Does that include flaps in or out? :)
 
WDD said:
Does that include flaps in or out? :)
Click to expand...
Current LSA max stall speed is based on Vs1

(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity.
Click to expand...
 
It looks like LPA is intended to extend LSA's simper aircraft certification process (and maintenance rules?) to heavier airplanes, up to a point, and will only affect new production aircraft. While LSA will be a subset of LPA, the proposal to extend the LSA limits to heavier or faster planes is an entirely different thing, though they're both part of the same rulemaking. It actually makes sense if I understand it correctly, separating the aircraft certification process (LPA) from the division of what SPs can fly (LSA). Could clear up a lot of confusion as to what is or isn't a LSA.
 
45 knots clean stall would rule out C 150's and C172's. Never missing a chance to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory......
 
There's no way C/P want the FAA to make yet another class of aircraft that don't include at least C172/PA28, and they're going to have more lobbying clout than random euro companies that currently dominate the LSA Market.

There's a demographic of primarily old guys with money that are buying these tricked out LSA's fully loaded up to roughly $200k with more avionics than half the airliners in the sky. They'd probably be buying certificated options if any existed that could be flown with LSA medical requirements.
 
Sigh...

Yes, there are new and near-new LSAs available well into the six figure range. You can easily top $200K for some of the factory produced SLSAs. Or you can pick up an old Champ or Ercoupe for 1/10 that. Somewhere in the middle is a population of ELSA and SLSA planes of varying points of speed, price, empty weight, etc. What's the BEST deal to be had? Depends on your parameters, of course, but I was convinced enough that the RV-12 was it that I bought one, and I'd do it again.

If you're not hung up on brand new with all the VERY latest, there are some bargains to be had in RV-12s from time to time. The older ones (and by "older" I mean still decades newer than the factory produced airplanes most people are flying) are equipped with Dynon D180 panels and a Garmin 496. Many have autopilots. With wheel pants they will do 120 kt TAS, on premium auto fuel (including gasohol). Fuel consumption seems to rise sharply that last 5 knots or so, so I usually pull it back to about 115 for cruise flight. It's also happy to loaf along at 100-ish at about 4 GPH if you're just sightseeing. I finally got mine to stall at 41 kt indicated, I think it was. They perform perfectly fine at max gross, and that's all I'm going to say about that. Plenty roomy for two big guys up front. If you're looking at them, make sure you have someone who really knows the RV-12 along, and make sure the SBs have all been done or discount the price accordingly.

We budget $33 per hour, wet, with engine reserve.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top