Thinking About (ok bought) F-350 with PowerStroke 6.0L - Questions

Ted DuPuis said:
Sigh. Looking at videos, this isn't fun to get at. Well, I'll get it done sometime this weekend... probably. Debating if I want to order a new IPR pigtail and then just wait and do both at once so that I can rule it out entirely.
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Never seen one, but I know that sinking feeling when watching a YT video of something you thought would be an hour, realizing it's going to be four. LOL.

At least we have all these videos these days. I remember fondly the days of a greasy Chilton's on a fender trying to decipher the exploded diagram to figure out how the hell to get at something that was buried. Ha. Yuck.

I much prefer the modern era with a couple of even crappy videos someone took the time to shoot. If the video is done by a pro who has tips and tricks on how to get in there and get out the quickest, all the better. Or hints on what backyard tools will work when there's a special tool for something.

Sorry it's going to be a pain for you, though. Always a bummer.

"First start by removing the left front tire, the brakes and axle, and the left front fender..."

Awwww ****!

LOL.
 
After looking at it more, the IPR and ICP are both in the same location (effectively). This makes sense since the ICP is basically measuring the pressure that the IPR is regulating. Given the issues with these two components and the overall difficulty of getting to that area, I'm going to do the pair of them and the pigtails and do them both at once.

To be honest, I have a feeling that these won't do it and then the truck will need to get the dummy plugs and O-rings for the oil galleys under the valve covers (at which point I'll probably do injectors as well), but it seems like this is worth doing as a first step just because it's cheaper and easier. The injectors may be fine, but the truck really seems to lack midrange and off idle, and the ICP at idle is high. We'll see.

These newer diesels get complex and ultimately have a lot of items that can wear out.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
After looking at it more, the IPR and ICP are both in the same location (effectively). This makes sense since the ICP is basically measuring the pressure that the IPR is regulating. Given the issues with these two components and the overall difficulty of getting to that area, I'm going to do the pair of them and the pigtails and do them both at once.

To be honest, I have a feeling that these won't do it and then the truck will need to get the dummy plugs and O-rings for the oil galleys under the valve covers (at which point I'll probably do injectors as well), but it seems like this is worth doing as a first step just because it's cheaper and easier. The injectors may be fine, but the truck really seems to lack midrange and off idle, and the ICP at idle is high. We'll see.

These newer diesels get complex and ultimately have a lot of items that can wear out.
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I have replaced both multiple times, one you get the turbo off it's not that ba
 
Criitter7 said:
I have replaced both multiple times, one you get the turbo off it's not that ba
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The videos I've seen online don't involve removing the turbo. They remove the induction hose for the turbo, the coolant tank, and the FICM. The access still isn't great but they manage to get it done.
 
And might as well replace all coolers and filters while
In there. Not sure if you mentioned it before, I didn't read all the posts
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The videos I've seen online don't involve removing the turbo. They remove the induction hose for the turbo, the coolant tank, and the FICM. The access still isn't great but they manage to get it done.
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Oh right, your not doing the high pressure pump, sorry brain fart. The turbo comes out for that.
 
Criitter7 said:
And might as well replace all coolers and filters while
In there. Not sure if you mentioned it before, I didn't read all the posts
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Right, this is IPR/IPC not HPOP. :)

The HPOP was already done on this truck and I think is fine, I think the issues are elsewhere. The oil cooler definitely seems to be fine, there's usually a <10F temp difference between coolant temp and EOT. The real issue seems to be low oil pressure at hot start.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Right, this is IPR/IPC not HPOP. :)

The HPOP was already done on this truck and I think is fine, I think the issues are elsewhere. The oil cooler definitely seems to be fine, there's usually a <10F temp difference between coolant temp and EOT. The real issue seems to be low oil pressure at hot start.
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Look at the ipr closely and make sure no material is plugging it up.
The screens from the cooler come apart and screw up the ipr. if you get stuck give me a shout I can try to help. Mine is an 06 so it's different, but I've done a few earlier ones
 
I started tearing into things to replacing the IPR and ICP today. Honestly, it all was a lot quicker to take apart than I had imagined. I have to give the folks at International credit, they manage to pack a lot into a complex package, but also designed it in such a way that it came apart pretty easily.

The IPR and ICP definitely need attention. I saw oil from the general area and the pigtails don't look to be in very good shape. The IPR has been touched at some point. Its pigtail had aluminum foil wrapped around it, and the IPR-side connector is wiggling around. The ICP looks like it's been replaced at some point. I'm wondering if they weren't replaced with aftermarket parts that aren't working right.

Speaking of aftermarket, I found out that the ICP I ordered (which was supposed to be OEM - the website was misleading) is actually a Bostech sensor. Same for the pigtails I ordered. It looks like Bostech sells a lot of things for diesel engines, but that doesn't mean they're any good. I'm inclined to call the Ford dealer tomorrow and just get the real thing. They should at least have the ICP in stock, although maybe not the pigtails since those seem to be less common. Although the pigtails might not be too terrible to put aftermarket ones on. I've got some firesleeve sitting around that I'm going to put over the wires to help shield them since the location is poor, being right next to the exhaust inlet for the turbo. They really shouldn't have put anything there.

I'm hopeful that this work at least does something, but it won't surprise me if I have to pull the valve covers do the dummy plugs and some of the O-rings under there to ultimately fix the hot start issue.
 
I'd be surprised if you didn't have to pull the valve covers, unfortunately, but will add that my f550 had an ICP go bad (just unplug it truck runs fine, just reverts to some base mapping) and the aftermarket ICP replacement failed shortly after install. Ford part, while wildly expensive in relative terms, seems to be lasting much better.
 
parts.com has always sent me real OEM parts at prices that significantly beat local dealers. Try that one sometime.
 
I do suspect that it'll end up needing valve covers pulled (sigh) but I'll try these. At the very least, it does look like they needed to get done. Part of me thinks I should just pull the valve covers now and bite that bullet...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I do suspect that it'll end up needing valve covers pulled (sigh) but I'll try these. At the very least, it does look like they needed to get done. Part of me thinks I should just pull the valve covers now and bite that bullet...
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You know I would. Just replace ****ing everything then enjoy years of never having to touch the thing again.
 
jesse said:
You know I would. Just replace ****ing everything then enjoy years of never having to touch the thing again.
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You make a valid point. But I also like to find out what fixed what problem along the way. Realistically, though I'm probably going to end up doing the whole thing on this anyway...
 
jesse said:
You know I would. Just replace ****ing everything then enjoy years of never having to touch the thing again.
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That's kinda what I did on the Dodge when I blew it upnot knowing the turbo was set up wrong.

"Just fix everything thats broken, or about to break, or is likely to break... and while you're in there put in new slightly bigger injectors..."

Still came out $40,000 cheaper than a new one, so WTH.

The real way to drive any diesel forever of course, is to buy a new one and do every ounce of maintenance yourself the right way, and all of them will go a million miles easy.

But who wants to pay $60K-$70K for a pickup truck? Insanity. Especially when the old ones don't have DEF or any of that crap to mess with, and in my case, dragged its butt home towing 12,500 lbs, with one cylinder completely down.

Beasts. They're all beasts. If you can just keep the stupid sensor and computer crap at bay.

Us IT guys always screwing up stuff that worked. Hahahaha.
 
I've more or less decided that what I'm going to do is replace the ICP and IPR, replace the pigtails, and then put it semi back together so I can start it and see how it runs (but not drive it). If it still seems to need some work then I'll just do the stuff under the valve covers.

Problem with doing everything is I don't tend to keep vehicles forever. So if I do everything, someone else ends up receiving most of the benefits. But of course I want it to be reliable and work right. This isn't a "forever" truck, it's a "for now" truck.
 
Shoulda bought a Dodge, but that's another matter. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Shoulda bought a Dodge, but that's another matter. :)
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Nah, then the motor might last a little longer, but the rest of the truck gives up on you. I really got a kick out of the wonderful dashboard material they used for a while that cracked to pieces if you looked at it wrong. Made an otherwise nice truck look neglected/wrecked/cheap.
 
SaltH2OHokie said:
Nah, then the motor might last a little longer, but the rest of the truck gives up on you. I really got a kick out of the wonderful dashboard material they used for a while that cracked to pieces if you looked at it wrong. Made an otherwise nice truck look neglected/wrecked/cheap.
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My general preference is Ford for the truck, and Cummins for the engine if I'm going diesel. That said, I haven't gotten this thing running the way I want it, so I may change my mind once that happens. The transmission may also work more to my liking once I do that. The V8 diesel sound just isn't very good in my opinion.

I talked to the Ford dealer and they have the ICP and IPR pigtails in stock, and are getting an ICP pigtail for me that should come today. So I'll be able to get the truck back together with genuine parts hopefully tonight. Or rather, I'll put it back together enough to make it run, fire it up, see how that does relative to the problem, and then probably order more parts to take it all apart and do injectors/dummy plugs/etc.
 
SaltH2OHokie said:
Nah, then the motor might last a little longer, but the rest of the truck gives up on you. I really got a kick out of the wonderful dashboard material they used for a while that cracked to pieces if you looked at it wrong. Made an otherwise nice truck look neglected/wrecked/cheap.
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The former owner of mine stuck a matching color dash rug on the dash of my Dodge as soon as reports of cracking started and the dash is flawless under it. Rug looks decent too.

Haven't seen any trucks of the Big Three that didn't have fit and finish problems the day you buy them new. They just don't take the care on pickup trucks, even the so-called "Platinum" and what not higher levels of "quality". Stuff just doesn't fit right.

The Top Gear episode on the Ford F-150 is a total hoot. And true.

But I still prefer a truck.

Maybe someone will make a nice one one of these days that isn't participating in the torque wars and has a nice medium load capability, AND a premium interior that can also be cleaned. That'd sell well.
 
I'm almost done with anything GM. It's taken me 18 years to convince everyone in the family to quit giving me their crappy GM vehicles when they want to get rid of them.
 
Craig said:
I'm almost done with anything GM. It's taken me 18 years to convince everyone in the family to quit giving me their crappy GM vehicles when they want to get rid of them.
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My biggest gripe with GM has been the electronic stuff. Engine/ABS sensors, window motors/actuators, faulty ignitions, stereo/climate stuff. I've had issues with them since '99 GMC all the way to an '07 GMC/Pontiac. The engines/transmissions (other than the Pontiac) have been fine, aside from burning more oil than they should. I have had much better luck with Ford, personally. I wouldn't touch a Dodge made before '08 or so, but they've gotten better over the past decade.
 
charheep said:
No Chevy/GMC love?
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Not particularly. While I have heard good things about the Duramax, I don't like the ergonomics of the Chevys. It seems like they're designed for people about 4-6" shorter than me. The Fords and Dodges fit me a lot better.

We had a 2003 Avalanche and My first truck was a '97 C2500. Just not a fan of how I fit in them or how they drove.
 
charheep said:
No Chevy/GMC love?
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I must be doing something wrong. I bought my GMC 11 years ago and the most expensive problem I have with it (besides filling it up) is I have to put tires on it every 5 years..... I need to change the coolant this year. Darn GMC.... biggest piece of crap I ever owned...:lol::lol:

True, I could have bought 2.5 brand new Fords or Dodges during that time and spend the same money as I did buying the one GMC. Dodge must be having a great sale on 1 ton duallies right now, there is a boat load of new Dodges running around on the reservation.

And I do understand there are people that could drive a D-10 dozer and still tear it up.
 
Craig said:
I'm almost done with anything GM. It's taken me 18 years to convince everyone in the family to quit giving me their crappy GM vehicles when they want to get rid of them.
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Heck, free is free. I'll take them when you don't want them... haha. There's not much to go wrong on the pickup trucks, and parts are cheap and plentiful. (You can keep the GM cars, though...) As someone said, electronics aren't GM's strong point.

I've replaced various electronics on the '04 Yukon, but that's about it. It's creeping up on 150,000 miles now.
 
denverpilot said:
Heck, free is free. I'll take them when you don't want them... haha. There's not much to go wrong on the pickup trucks, and parts are cheap and plentiful. (You can keep the GM cars, though...) As someone said, electronics aren't GM's strong point.

I've replaced various electronics on the '04 Yukon, but that's about it. It's creeping up on 150,000 miles now.
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Wouldn't wish them on a friend....now an enemy, maybe...:p

Between my 86 GMC, the 93 and 99 Chevy trucks, I've put in 7 or 8 alternators, 3 ac compressors, 2 transmissions, 2 engines, at least 20 fuel pumps, welded in a couple of repair plates in the front end on two of them and replaced one specialty armored steering column. 2 of the 3 trucks have parts that are only available from the dealer and require the VIN's to find the correct parts. That's just 3 of the 6 GM trucks I've had since I got out of high school. I could have bought a very nice a/c for what they've cost me in parts to keep them running and on the road. I only paid for 1 of the trucks out of my own pocket..
 
Zeldman said:
I must be doing something wrong. I bought my GMC 11 years ago and the most expensive problem I have with it (besides filling it up) is I have to put tires on it every 5 years..... I need to change the coolant this year. Darn GMC.... biggest piece of crap I ever owned...:lol::lol:

True, I could have bought 2.5 brand new Fords or Dodges during that time and spend the same money as I did buying the one GMC. Dodge must be having a great sale on 1 ton duallies right now, there is a boat load of new Dodges running around on the reservation.

And I do understand there are people that could drive a D-10 dozer and still tear it up.
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The Avalanche was a good truck. We sold it with something around 170k on it. My wife bought it almost new and it only ever needed shocks, brakes, and tires. Front end went out around 140k so I had to redo that. I suppose it got an alternator too.

That said, my first Excursion was an excellent vehicle. All it ever needed were shocks, brakes, and tires. Front end never went out on me but it was rebuilt shortly before I bought it.

And my Dodge was a great vehicle. Put 108,000 miles on it in 2 years, never did anything to it other than fluids.

I think the quality of the big 3 at this point is relatively even. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I wouldn't say any of them are bad.
 
I got the IPR out last night. The screen looked in good shape, but the O-rings looked shot. Also the solenoid itself rotated wiggled within the housing. It looks old, so I think that replacing it is the right thing no matter how you look at it.

Ford sells a special tool for the ICP, but it looks like I can make it work with a 1-1/16" deep well socket, so I'm going to try that first. Whole lot cheaper at least.

The pigtails weren't in great shape, and it looked like the ICP pigtail had been replaced already previously, so I'm redoing it. I have some fire sleeve that I'll put on it for insulation given the proximity to the turbo. It has insulation already but it looks like it needs more.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I think the quality of the big 3 at this point is relatively even. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I wouldn't say any of them are bad.
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That is pretty much correct. The problem is some people buy the GM Tiny Spec or the Ford Spot or the Dodge Dot and expect it to be the same as the Excursion or Cadillac Escalade.

Many years ago when I was a mechanic for a Ford dealership, a college professor bought the smallest Ford car made at the time, I think it was called Fiesta. He brought that thing back every week complaining of something. The last time he brought it in he complained of a little rattle somewhere in the body. The unlucky mechanic took that car apart piece by piece. I mean there were no two parts left joined together. He piled all the parts in the next bay, then pulled a large washer out of his tool box. He called the owner come look at what he found. He showed the guy the washer saying that was the cause of the noise, but all the guy saw was his car laying there in a pile. We never saw him again....:lol::lol:
 
I have had almost nothing but GM. No HD trucks or any truck for that matter. It seems like the olders ones, like the late 80's, 90's and real early 2000's all had issues. But my friends with the other big 2 had issues with their cars, just different. Again, no trucks though. It seems like after 2006-ish they got their stuff together and the issues are less. Maybe with the internet and message boards they couldnt hide flaws anymore? Dunno.
I was just curious as I dont like Fords and Dodge always seemed like the little brother trying to act old and mature.
 
charheep said:
I was just curious as I dont like Fords and Dodge always seemed like the little brother trying to act old and mature.
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Dodge is kinda a one-trick pony when it comes to trucks, and that trick is the Cummins engine. I guess you could say they're a two-trick pony these days, since they're also the only truck you can get a manual transmission in anymore, which is big to me.
 
There really hasn't been any good pickups since International quit making them.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Dodge is kinda a one-trick pony when it comes to trucks, and that trick is the Cummins engine. I guess you could say they're a two-trick pony these days, since they're also the only truck you can get a manual transmission in anymore, which is big to me.
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A few years ago I was in a bit of a bind when my only pump truck on location tried to drive trough the only mud hole on location. The soil there is basically bentonite so the mud isn't deep but it is slicker than snot on teflon. The truck was stuck. I really needed the pump truck in position so we could use it to get out of a little well control problem.

We used a ford diesel pickup with an automatic to pull the pump truck out. It spun all four wheels at different times as the power train tried to find the best traction.

I don't complain about automatics. I know that we don't tear up as much equipment with the automatic trannies.
 
Clark1961 said:
A few years ago I was in a bit of a bind when my only pump truck on location tried to drive trough the only mud hole on location. The soil there is basically bentonite so the mud isn't deep but it is slicker than snot on teflon. The truck was stuck. I really needed the pump truck in position so we could use it to get out of a little well control problem.

We used a ford diesel pickup with an automatic to pull the pump truck out. It spun all four wheels at different times as the power train tried to find the best traction.

I don't complain about automatics. I know that we don't tear up as much equipment with the automatic trannies.
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I understand the benefits of automatics in a work/fleet environment, and they have their benefits. However my personal preference is a manual transmission, so that factors into my purchase decision.

Yes, my F-350 is an automatic, but that's because I couldn't find any manual transmission trucks for sale locally within the price range I was looking for.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I understand the benefits of automatics in a work/fleet environment, and they have their benefits. However my personal preference is a manual transmission, so that factors into my purchase decision.

Yes, my F-350 is an automatic, but that's because I couldn't find any manual transmission trucks for sale locally within the price range I was looking for.
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Plus I can repair/rebuild a manual a whole lot easier than I can do an automatic.
 
Craig said:
Wouldn't wish them on a friend....now an enemy, maybe...:p

Between my 86 GMC, the 93 and 99 Chevy trucks, I've put in 7 or 8 alternators, 3 ac compressors, 2 transmissions, 2 engines, at least 20 fuel pumps, welded in a couple of repair plates in the front end on two of them and replaced one specialty armored steering column. 2 of the 3 trucks have parts that are only available from the dealer and require the VIN's to find the correct parts. That's just 3 of the 6 GM trucks I've had since I got out of high school. I could have bought a very nice a/c for what they've cost me in parts to keep them running and on the road. I only paid for 1 of the trucks out of my own pocket..
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That is getting pretty far back there, even for me, the guy who likes old trucks. Many believe the generation of GM trucks that started around '00 was when they finally got the truck part right, and still had electronics issues. The gen before that wasn't awful but not the best. And the '86? Good lord everyone sold crap out of Detroit back then. You couldn't find any truck back then that wasn't problematic with something.

They were still trucks and not daily drivers back then. Dodge made the first "good looking" truck that wasn't a slab sided box and then Ford added pinstripes and stuff to look relevant while they completely retooled. GM never really got completely away from old slab sides until the 2000s. The nineties Suburbans for example. Giant beasts, eight MPG... but they figured it out around '00-'02.

And Delco never did make a decent electrical part. Ever. Not even today. LOL.

Nowadays the truck makers have gone too far over into "luxury car" territory. They need to ratchet it back a bit. Most truck guys interest falls back to what the manufacturers all classify as their "work" truck or "fleet" truck lines now. We don't need a $70,000 diesel pickup with more features than a 2000's vintage luxury car. We need a truck.

A few creature comforts are nice (where the truck biz went in the early 2000s) but air conditioned seats are ridiculous for something that'll be driven through a field and all the dirt from real work tracked into them.
 
denverpilot said:
We don't need a $70,000 diesel pickup with more features than a 2000's vintage luxury car. We need a truck.

A few creature comforts are nice (where the truck biz went in the early 2000s) but air conditioned seats are ridiculous for something that'll be driven through a field and all the dirt from real work tracked into them.
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Dealers stock what sells, and what sells these days are luxury trucks. If you want a work truck, order one! One can get an F250/350 turbodiesel in XL trim, industrial vinyl seats, black rubber floors, crank windows, no bullchit. Work truck.
 
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Bill Jennings said:
Dealers stock what sells, and what sells these days are luxury trucks. If you want a work truck, order one! One can get an F250/350 turbodiesel in XL trim, industrial vinyl seats, black rubber floors, crank windows, no bullchit. Work truck.
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Another fun fact - because the volume on the base trucks are so low, the cost of many of the base trim pieces and features is more than the luxury pieces, once the very expensive tooling is amortorized over a very small number of trucks.

Upgrade option packages are big profit centers.
 
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