Thinking About a Tractor

Old tractors can still do a lot, here's my of TO-30
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New ones can do more though... This is the Mahindra 3535 and I think either an 1100 or 1400# bale

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Arbiter419 said:
Can't say enough good about Kubota equipment. I've been hard on diesel Kubota tractors and UTVs. Real good stuff.
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Biggest mistake I ever made was giving away my Kubota L3710 and buying a new John Deere 4105 -- what a sorry piece of crap. :(
 
If you do go for the little compact tractors, the 4x4 is a dang handy option.

For used, the old Massey's and the JD 20's are nice machines and run forever.

The old Ford 8n's have some peculiar habits, and, they have some unique values to the orchard and vinyard guys. And, lots of old guys like to put fresh paint on them and jack the price up.
 
8Ns and the like are beautiful lawn ornaments that can serve limited function. Most working and even hobby farms that have one, have a newish Kubota as well. :lol:;)
 
One good thing about the old tractors though is the PTO wheel on the side for belt driving a jack shaft. You can run a portable timber mill with one and drag it through the woods with it as well.
 
There's a lot of useful info in here, I appreciate the input.

Looking around, it's easy to find tractors, it's easy to find loaders, it's harder to find tractors with loaders. How difficult is it to add a loader to a tractor? Seems simple in concept, but...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
There's a lot of useful info in here, I appreciate the input.

Looking around, it's easy to find tractors, it's easy to find loaders, it's harder to find tractors with loaders. How difficult is it to add a loader to a tractor? Seems simple in concept, but...
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I'm in the process of doing that right now. Each install is a bit of a challenge, but here's one man's take on it.

Find the tractor. Now, find the loader that will fit that tractor. Find the live hyd system that will fit the loader, and driven from the tractor. Mount an external hyd pump driven by the belt, or direct off the crank, or from the PTO shaft(not recommended). Disassemble the loader into the frame, and articulated pieces. Use another loader, or a overhead lift to set the frame in place, and bolt it up. Set up the hyd to the tractor. Use that other loader to now re-mount the articulated part. Attach the hyd pistons to the articulated part. Purge the lines, and test hyd. Attach bucket. Have a beer.

Of course, I"m doing it on my little 8N, but the process is basically the same. If you could find a loader on the tractor in your price range, test it, buy it.
 
Doc, I somewhat had that impression and figured it was better to find them combined if possible. Of course, it does require actually finding one that's so equipped.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Doc, I somewhat had that impression and figured it was better to find them combined if possible. Of course, it does require actually finding one that's so equipped.
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They're around. Putting them on is reasonably straight forward, well within your skill set. One thing about loaders on 2WD tractors is the small front wheels sink into soft ground too easily, and the front axles aren't really made to put up with the extra load and the service requirements go up.
 
Much like airplanes, it's far, far easier and cheaper to buy one equipped the way you want it to begin with. Don't forget that we'll be heading into the fall farm and equipment auction season soon. They're all listed online. Do your research, then find the farm and equipment auctions in your area, bring cash and try your luck. I got a great deal on a skidsteer that way, but you have to be patient and be ready to walk.

Or buy that Massey-Ferguson. That's a smokin' deal. I have an MF 65 with a Perkins diesel and love it.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
Everyone I've talked to who's owned a Kubota has said the same thing. Great equipment, just keeps on working. That would push up the budget a bit, though.
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Check out the BX25. It's a compact tractor but I've never had to do anything with ours that it wouldn't do albeit with some ballast added from time to time
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
Much like airplanes, it's far, far easier and cheaper to buy one equipped the way you want it to begin with. Don't forget that we'll be heading into the fall farm and equipment auction season soon. They're all listed online. Do your research, then find the farm and equipment auctions in your area, bring cash and try your luck. I got a great deal on a skidsteer that way, but you have to be patient and be ready to walk.
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Agreed that it's best to just buy one that's equipped as needed. So, we'll see what we can find. I figured that it wasn't going to be very bolt-on. One friend of mine bought a new front end loader for his Kubota. He said he had to modify every piece of the kit, and it cost $5k.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Agreed that it's best to just buy one that's equipped as needed. So, we'll see what we can find. I figured that it wasn't going to be very bolt-on. One friend of mine bought a new front end loader for his Kubota. He said he had to modify every piece of the kit, and it cost $5k.
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It just depends on the FEL he bought and the tractor model he is putting it on. Generally on the newer FEL's, if they are the same brand as the tractor, the brackets/bolt holes are already in place, as well as the hydraulic ports. If you're adding a Woods universal FEL to a tractor, there's probably going to be a bit of fab work.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
One friend of mine bought a new front end loader for his Kubota. He said he had to modify every piece of the kit, and it cost $5k.
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:D

My homemade loader was built for the 8N. It's one of the old tube design for light weight. So far: Remove front of tractor to install pump drive kit on crank pully. Set loader base on tractor, mark front fittings to mount. Remove loader base and cut/grind mounting flanges. Tack weld flanges to loader base. Refit to tractor and check fitment. Remove loader base, weld flanges, and drill mounting holes. Assemble front of tractor. Replace three hoses. Make new bushings for articulating section.

I'm about half way there, or a bit more. This is not something I'm complaining about, I enjoy the work, and I'm teaching my daughter to weld a bit. but, clearly it's tedious unless bought all together and ready to go. Not anything I would recommend to a novice around metal.

Good news is, once I get it fitted, not many 8Ns out there with loaders. And, my total out of pocket for the deal is $1200 including new tires on back. Light duty, but fits my needs exactly.
 
JHW said:
there's a reason for that. The front spindles won't take it if you actually try to use the loader.
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Bushings are a grease and replacement item. That's why there are bushings in there.

To reduce the wear on the front spindles, most 8Ns have a small bucket, about 35-40" which is what mine is. There is also a recommendation to add 400lbs of ballast to the rear blade. I can find a used barbell set and just weld a post to the 3pt frame and stack the weights back there when using the loader to cantilever the weight more to the rear.

Alternately, I could spend another $6-12k for a unit with 4WD and a built in loader.

Nah
 
docmirror said:
Bushings are a grease and replacement item. That's why there are bushings in there.

To reduce the wear on the front spindles, most 8Ns have a small bucket, about 35-40" which is what mine is. There is also a recommendation to add 400lbs of ballast to the rear blade. I can find a used barbell set and just weld a post to the 3pt frame and stack the weights back there when using the loader to cantilever the weight more to the rear.

Alternately, I could spend another $6-12k for a unit with 4WD and a built in loader.

Nah
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What are you using for a hydraulic pump? I got a 14gpm Prince from Surplus Center for my 65 a few years ago pretty cheap. Rigged it to run off the harmonic balancer through a Lovejoy coupler and fabbed up the mount.Got the 2 way power beyond valves from them too. Ran supply and return hoses to the tractor trans sump. Worked out pretty good...
Those 5gpm pumps it comes with will run a loader, but in slow motion.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
What are you using for a hydraulic pump? I got a 14gpm Prince from Surplus Center for my 65 a few years ago pretty cheap. Rigged it to run off the harmonic balancer through a Lovejoy coupler and fabbed up the mount.Got the 2 way power beyond valves from them too. Ran supply and return hoses to the tractor trans sump. Worked out pretty good...
Those 5gpm pumps it comes with will run a loader, but in slow motion.
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Similar, it runs off a jack shaft forward of the crank and drives the front mounted pump. I don't know the flow yet, but it's fairly hefty. It's a balance between loading the engine for the pump and the speed of the rams. I'm guessing it won't be the most powerful, and won't be the fastest but I'm a cheap bas....
 
So, we moved to Kansas, as my profile indicates. We are very happy out here, but something was missing from our lives... a tractor.

Based on input from this thread and our own thoughts, we had basically decided on getting an 8N. My concerns with the 8N were that I would like to have a live PTO and power steering (not needed, but nice to have for intended uses), and I just had this feeling that we would end up finding it being smaller and less tractor than we needed once we got into tractor uses.

Some random browsing on Craigslist found a good deal on a Massey-Ferguson 165. We ended up getting it for an even better deal, and I trailered it home today. It's a gasser, which is preferable in my opinion, as I didn't want the diesel engine for winter starting issues (no electricity/heat in the outbuilding). 3-point, hydraulics, came with a 72" brush hog, gravel rake, rear blade, and some accessories we won't use. I'll sell those and get a front end loader, and I'm thinking we might also get a big finish mower for the PTO. This thing has enough power to run that.

The tractor is not perfect. It needs front tires (they're falling apart). Rears are dry rotted, but we can at least get another season or two out of them I figure. It needs a new seat (although that's cosmetic really). The petcock leaks when you turn it off, so I'll put a new one of those in. Likely also replace the fuel hoses while I'm at it, which I'm going to guess need it. Coolant is relatively recent and looks good, coolant hoses and radiator looked good, too. Needs two of the 4 headlights replaced (they physically aren't there), and may need some more there, I didn't test the lighting system since it really didn't matter for the purposes of whether or not I was going to buy it.

My questions:

1) Anyone have recommendations for what and where to buy for front tires?
2) Are tractor tires something you can replace yourself, or do you need to take them someplace to get replaced with a machine?
3) I have no idea what sizes finish mowers come in for PTO in greater than 72". What are some common sizes so I can more easily search?
4) This tractor is set up for a front end loader, but didn't come with one. Looked to have factory holes for the setup. Any ideas on what/where to look for/find an appropriate front end loader?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
So, we moved to Kansas, as my profile indicates. We are very happy out here, but something was missing from our lives... a tractor.

Based on input from this thread and our own thoughts, we had basically decided on getting an 8N. My concerns with the 8N were that I would like to have a live PTO and power steering (not needed, but nice to have for intended uses), and I just had this feeling that we would end up finding it being smaller and less tractor than we needed once we got into tractor uses.

Some random browsing on Craigslist found a good deal on a Massey-Ferguson 165. We ended up getting it for an even better deal, and I trailered it home today. It's a gasser, which is preferable in my opinion, as I didn't want the diesel engine for winter starting issues (no electricity/heat in the outbuilding). 3-point, hydraulics, came with a 72" brush hog, gravel rake, rear blade, and some accessories we won't use. I'll sell those and get a front end loader, and I'm thinking we might also get a big finish mower for the PTO. This thing has enough power to run that.

The tractor is not perfect. It needs front tires (they're falling apart). Rears are dry rotted, but we can at least get another season or two out of them I figure. It needs a new seat (although that's cosmetic really). The petcock leaks when you turn it off, so I'll put a new one of those in. Likely also replace the fuel hoses while I'm at it, which I'm going to guess need it. Coolant is relatively recent and looks good, coolant hoses and radiator looked good, too. Needs two of the 4 headlights replaced (they physically aren't there), and may need some more there, I didn't test the lighting system since it really didn't matter for the purposes of whether or not I was going to buy it.

My questions:

1) Anyone have recommendations for what and where to buy for front tires?
2) Are tractor tires something you can replace yourself, or do you need to take them someplace to get replaced with a machine?
3) I have no idea what sizes finish mowers come in for PTO in greater than 72". What are some common sizes so I can more easily search?
4) This tractor is set up for a front end loader, but didn't come with one. Looked to have factory holes for the setup. Any ideas on what/where to look for/find an appropriate front end loader?
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Kansas..:dunno::dunno::dunno::confused::confused:...

Try Gemplers for the tires.....

Ya got a Nitrous kit on the tractor yet??:D
 
Oh, one other thing - the exhaust is very loud, at least it seems it to me. It looks like it probably needs at least a gasket, and the muffler is also pointing directly at the driver (great engineering decision). I'd like to make it quieter...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Oh, one other thing - the exhaust is very loud, at least it seems it to me. It looks like it probably needs at least a gasket, and the muffler is also pointing directly at the driver (great engineering decision). I'd like to make it quieter...
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Welcome, from Olathe
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Oh, one other thing - the exhaust is very loud, at least it seems it to me. It looks like it probably needs at least a gasket, and the muffler is also pointing directly at the driver (great engineering decision). I'd like to make it quieter...
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Geez.....

You ARE getting old, ain't ya...:D:D
 
Your tractor is smaller, but last year I bought two big rear tires for our IH 1586 and they were $1300.00 each. :cryin:


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Ted DuPuis said:
2) Are tractor tires something you can replace yourself, or do you need to take them someplace to get replaced with a machine?
3) I have no idea what sizes finish mowers come in for PTO in greater than 72". What are some common sizes so I can more easily search?
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2. I had my tires repl by Big O, and it was the worse decision I ever made. If you hire someone, watch them every second they don't damage your wheels, hubs, or tubes. My wheels were tore up on the edge, and when I got the tractor back, one axle was leaking oil. It's not a difficult job if you work in the sun, and have a couple good tire irons.

3. I don't think having an industrial finish mower is really useful unless you are doing many acres. with a finish mower, there's a point of diminishing returns on the quality of the cut at the edges. Maybe if your lawn is putting green smooth and flat, but otherwise, stick with 72" or so. I've heard of 84" and 90", but not very often.
 
I use a bush hog on grass when it gets away from me but normally a rhino fm 100. There is a newer model out now. As the name implies, it's 100 inches wide. Your tractor would run that. Seems better if you get a finish mower at least as wide as your rear wheels. 86 inch might work. That is a pretty decent tractor model and it should do what you want. I myself, prefer the exhaust to go straight up but remembering you said you were fairly heavy with trees you might want a new low exhaust. For mowing your lawn if you are going to try to make it nice you actually don't want new tires on the back. A good used set of radials with good sidewalls is the ticket to avoid leaving cleat marks in your yard. I used to be shop foreman years ago in a tractor shop so if you want, sometime I could swing by or feel free to call. Jesse can give you my contact info. Joe
 
Front tires you can find at Tractor Supply. Rear tires...heh, heh, heh. Bring yer checkbook. I get mine from a local big rig commercial dealer. Cheaper than the Ag places, but still $600 or so each.

You can replace tractor tires yourself. Leave the wheels on the machine, just make sure you have a heavy duty enough jack to get the tires up off the ground. One side at a time. Throw some blocks under the trans. The biggest PIA is breaking the bead. You'll need to buy a bead breaker. Looks like a wide chisel with a little curve to it that you place up against the rim and whack with a BFH until it breaks free. Of course, you'll need a set of spoons.
Once you get the bead broken, turn the wheel on the axle to work the tire off the rim. Lots of soapy water is your friend. If the rim is a little rough, before you put the tube and tire on, clean it up, paint it, then wrap it with duct tape to keep the rough spots from chafing your new tube. If the tires only have small splits in the casing, you can get some more life out of them by glueing a section of old rubber boot on the inside of the tire to make a patch. Those tires are spendy. Don't use fluid to fill the tire, that stuff is corrosive as hell.

It's work, but the local tire place charges me $250 to come out and do it, plus the cost of the tire. Never again. I have an MF 65. You've got a good tractor there, but you shoulda gone diesel. The gas uses a bunch of fuel. Quieter ain't gonna happen, even with a new muffler those tractors are pretty loud.

Mower. I run a seven foot Woods twin spindle. Good compromise between a dedicated finish mower and a bush hog. The blades pivot, so in the rough stuff if I hit a rock or log the machine doesn't take it on the chin, but it still does a passable job on finish work. You can find a D80 in the $800-1500 range depending on condition.
 
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Be sure and check the gear lube in the planetary drives. That's probably the most overlooked item on those machines.

One other thing particular to those tractors. Always, always, always take your time shifting gears. Go too fast and the shifter has a tendency to lock in place between gears. The only way to free it up is to remove the lube filler cap, stick a long pry bar down there and start moving gears back and forth on the main shaft. The first time it happens, it'll get your attention. Shift slowly and keep the lube topped up and it rarely happens.

Also just FYI, the MF Diesel cold-start system of that era uses a heat coil. The coil glows red and fuel is sprayed on it in the intake runner. Very effective. In 20 years I've never had the tractor fail to start even in below zero temps.
 
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You know those semi truck service vehicles that help truckers out on the highway with changing tires? I bet you could get one of those guys out to the farm to change those tires out. They have all the equipment you'd need, on the truck.
 
Some good points on here, thanks. I'm still happy with the gasser decision. We're not going to use it much, so the higher fuel burn is inconsequential. Plus no electricity in the outbuilding where it'll get stored. I'll look at changing the fluids in it, which I'm sure ain't been changed in some time. I'll look at the exhaust closer and figure out what to do with that. I notice the exhaust manifold has two outlets from a single log manifold. One is capped off and one has the exhaust coming out. Wonder if any benefit to running dual exhaust. ;)

Any thoughts on lead additive for this low compression, leaded fuel era engine?

Joe, I'll definitely give you a ring for some advice, and if you'd like to fly on down some day I'd welcome the lesson in tractoring. Laurie drove tractors a bit as a kid, but not extensively and mostly managed not to kill herself due to good luck.
 
If you won't be using it a lot, I'd run 100LL in it. I know it's more expensive, but it will save money in the long run. You can leave avgas in it all year long without worry about gumming up. This auto gas we get now is crap. The ethanol in it will eventually eat everything rubber.

I run 100LL in all my trimmers, blowers, chain-saws, small engines, etc..... it has mitigated many problems and they run a LOT better.
 
I'm not really interested in putting 100LL in, simply because it's a hassle to get for me (drive 30 minutes to the self-serve airport vs. stop at the gas station). But certainly that is one option. We'll use it enough to go through multiple tanks a year for sure, but not enough that even 2x the fuel consumption will matter.
 
I just put premium gas in my gas stuff that sits. That lasts pretty good. Wouldn't bother with lead additives. If you get bored some weekend you can fly up here and try my rig out. Bring your fishing pole along.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm not really interested in putting 100LL in, simply because it's a hassle to get for me (drive 30 minutes to the self-serve airport vs. stop at the gas station). But certainly that is one option. We'll use it enough to go through multiple tanks a year for sure, but not enough that even 2x the fuel consumption will matter.
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I would run at least a tank or two through it to clean it up and lube the valve guides. But that's up to you. :wink2:
 
Tractorin' 101.

Unlike cars, the tractor WILL overdrive the brakes. Standing on them heading toward a wall, ditch or cliff without pushing the clutch in ain't gonna stop you. Two, the brake pedals are joined by a bar. If you want to make tighter turns, flip the bar up and use them individually, but never on the road and be careful pulling a wheeled implement.

On the left here is a bar that comes out to step on with your heel. That's the differential lock. Comes in handy when one wheel starts to lose traction, but it will prevent the front wheels from having any effect, so you need to use the split brake to steer, especially if the front end is light.

Like aviation, try not to do anything stupid. PTO's bite.

You have two levers on your lift, one up/ down, the other labeled Draft. The draft lever was part of MF's system of keeping plow implements level and at uniform depth as you moved over rough ground. Unless you're going to be plowing, just leave it up and use one lever.
Everybody asks what the "draft" is for, as it's unique to MF.

The two outlets on the exhaust manifold are to allow you to set it up for vertical, as you have it, or set it up for forward and horizontal as for use in n orchard where there are low branches.

I have a shop manual, so if you need any info, give me a shout.
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
Tractorin' 101.

Unlike cars, the tractor WILL overdrive the brakes. Standing on them heading toward a wall, ditch or cliff without pushing the clutch in ain't gonna stop you. Two, the brake pedals are joined by a bar. If you want to make tighter turns, flip the bar up and use them individually, but never on the road and be careful pulling a wheeled implement.

On the left here is a bar that comes out to step on with your heel. That's the differential lock. Comes in handy when one wheel starts to lose traction, but it will prevent the front wheels from having any effect, so you need to use the split brake to steer, especially if the front end is light.

Like aviation, try not to do anything stupid. PTO's bite.

You have two levers on your lift, one up/ down, the other labeled Draft. The draft lever was part of MF's system of keeping plow implements level and at uniform depth as you moved over rough ground. Unless you're going to be plowing, just leave it up and use one lever.
Everybody asks what the "draft" is for, as it's unique to MF.

I have a shop manual, so if you need any info, give me a shout.
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Great advice.....:thumbsup::thumbsup:.

And MF's draft is like most other mfg's "float" setting...
 
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