The Travails of He who is The Steingar

steingar

steingar

Taxi to Parking
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Feb 6, 2007
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Land of Savages
Display Name
steingar
Haven't seen me much in these pages for awhile. Didn't crash or get shot in the back by a jealous husband, sadly my absence was utterly mundane. I was flying a Mooney Ranger, one of my most favorite airplanes in all the world (a Mooney Chaparral would be my most favorite) and all was well until the Pandemic. Prices on everything went up, fast. My hangar went from $300 to $550. Avgas went from $4 to $7. Insurance climbed from $1200 to $1800, just like that.

You know what didn't go up at all? My pay. I realized I could no longer afford GA, and had to sell out. My last flight in the Mooney it wouldn't descend. I kid you not, coming into my home drome I pulled out power as I passed the numbers to descend. No joy. Pulled some more as I turned base. Still no descent. I was at idle throttle on long final before the Lucky Strike would start descending. It was as if the airplane knew it was its last flight with me. I miss it more than I can say.

I got the boot from my job for stupid reasons. I got another job, and got kicked out for stupid reasons. I am now retired, and I have same money as the second job I was doing. In a couple years I'll have as much as my first job.

Right now I'm going to school for Airplane Mechanic for free. The bad news is I won't be able to get an A&P license from it, as I am am auditing (though I'm doing far better than anyone else in the class). My plan is afterward I want to go to a company and be an apprentice. Hopefully a year later I can get the license. That, and I do need some extra money for some crap for the Steinholme.

I want to go to the Dark Side, and get and an experimental. Way cheaper, as you all know. My favorite experimental is probably a Vans RV. Can't buy one, the prices are nutz right now, but I do have enough money to get a kit. What I don't have is enough to get a new engine. But, if I have the A&P license I can buy one on the cheap that's got too many hours and do a field overhaul myself. I bet that I can afford.

My only real worry right now is insurance. I think aviation insurance is shrinking like crazy, and it could be that because I'm old they won't allow insurance for an RV. Especially a taildragger RV, which is what I want. My BFR will be taildragger school. We'll see. I recall a guy flying a Mooney who couldn't get insurance because he was 80. I'll be 65 when I start hunting for an airplane, so I am concerned.

So that's why I haven't been around. No flying, no POA. But my toe is getting back into Aviation, and I want to start flying as soon as I can! I'll go absolutely nuts if I can't.

Sincerely,

Your Friendly Neighborhood Steingar
 
Teach Origami.

Welcome back.
 
steingar said:
I want to go to the Dark Side, and get and an experimental. Way cheaper, as you all know. My favorite experimental is probably a Vans RV. Can't buy one, the prices are nutz right now, but I do have enough money to get a kit. What I don't have is enough to get a new engine. But, if I have the A&P license I can buy one on the cheap that's got too many hours and do a field overhaul myself. I bet that I can afford.
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Come to the dark side Luke Steingar...

You don't need an A&P to overhaul the engine on an experimental. It just makes it an uncertified engine, meaning you have a 40 hour phase 1 test period instead of 25.
 
Glad you're back and you have a plan. I think EAB is a great path. I'm envious of you doing A&P school. Find a way to get the ticket!
 
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steingar said:
I want to go to the Dark Side, and get and an experimental. Way cheaper, as you all know. My favorite experimental is probably a Vans RV. Can't buy one, the prices are nutz right now, but I do have enough money to get a kit. What I don't have is enough to get a new engine. But, if I have the A&P license I can buy one on the cheap that's got too many hours and do a field overhaul myself. I bet that I can afford.

Your Friendly Neighborhood Steingar
Click to expand...
1) Welcome back.
2) You don't need any sort of a license to do a field overhaul on an engine for an experimental. There's a manual that lays it out pretty clearly.
3) Insurance? Depending on a million things, you may find it isn't necessary.
4) Good luck with the tailwheel thing. I may not be most coordinated person, but I didn't feel comfortable in anything but very modest conditions for a while after I moved to a tailwheel airplane.
5) I'm still primed for our failed paper airplane duel at Oshkosh.
 
Thank you all for the welcome. I am an Origami expert (Sensei of my own state and probably a few others), and I have published 3 books on Origami Airplanes. I have a fourth, simple Origami Airplanes I intend to title Above the Fold. I've designed more simple Origami airplanes for another book I will title Far Above the Fold. My old publisher doesn't want it, so I need to find a new one. I also have to redo the book somewhat, though right now I haven't the time to do it.

I will hit Oshkosh one of these days, and if there is a paper airplane contest I can teach simple paper airplanes that fly like homesick angels (I used to teach at the craft tent, but they shut that down so no teaching for me, a real pity as I know a LOT of really simple models that really pop). I'll learn how to overhaul an engine in school, but I think I do need a license to overhaul a true airplane engine. I want it so that I can do it legally, and so if I buy an experimental I can annual it myself. I'm having a lot of fun in the school, it is a pity I'll not get a license. I think it really stupid, there really isn't any rule saying I can't, just how the school has decided to interpret it. Could just as easily go the other way.

I miss flying more than I can tell any of you. I'd love to have another Mooney, but the damn things are so bloody expensive now that there's no way to get back into one unless the economy lays a big dump like it did in '08, though I'd truly hate to see that again. That said, it is possible I might find one with a runout engine, at that point I probably could buy in and do a field overhaul in the motor (so long as I have the license, of course). I couldn't do the annual myself, but I could fix whatever squawks come up.

But I still suspect an experimental. Like I said, an RV kit and a runout engine, do an overhaul on the motor and build the kit. Or find one that someone started and ran out of time/juice/interest/whatever. I'd prefer to have the license before I overhaul a real airplane engine, as it will be worth far less being overhauled by a non-A&P since it could never be used on a certificated airplane. Most airplanes are an engine with a worthless airframe attached to it.

Sorry about the long posts, its been a minute.
 
steingar said:
Thank you all for the welcome. I am an Origami expert (Sensei of my own state and probably a few others), and I have published 3 books on Origami Airplanes. I have a fourth, simple Origami Airplanes I intend to title Above the Fold. I've designed more simple Origami airplanes for another book I will title Far Above the Fold. My old publisher doesn't want it, so I need to find a new one. I also have to redo the book somewhat, though right now I haven't the time to do it.

I will hit Oshkosh one of these days, and if there is a paper airplane contest I can teach simple paper airplanes that fly like homesick angels (I used to teach at the craft tent, but they shut that down so no teaching for me, a real pity as I know a LOT of really simple models that really pop). I'll learn how to overhaul an engine in school, but I think I do need a license to overhaul a true airplane engine. I want it so that I can do it legally, and so if I buy an experimental I can annual it myself. I'm having a lot of fun in the school, it is a pity I'll not get a license. I think it really stupid, there really isn't any rule saying I can't, just how the school has decided to interpret it. Could just as easily go the other way.

I miss flying more than I can tell any of you. I'd love to have another Mooney, but the damn things are so bloody expensive now that there's no way to get back into one unless the economy lays a big dump like it did in '08, though I'd truly hate to see that again. That said, it is possible I might find one with a runout engine, at that point I probably could buy in and do a field overhaul in the motor (so long as I have the license, of course). I couldn't do the annual myself, but I could fix whatever squawks come up.

But I still suspect an experimental. Like I said, an RV kit and a runout engine, do an overhaul on the motor and build the kit. Or find one that someone started and ran out of time/juice/interest/whatever. I'd prefer to have the license before I overhaul a real airplane engine, as it will be worth far less being overhauled by a non-A&P since it could never be used on a certificated airplane. Most airplanes are an engine with a worthless airframe attached to it.

Sorry about the long posts, its been a minute.
Click to expand...
Forget the Mooney, I’d buy an LSA like an RV12. That’ll get you back in the air for waaay less.
 
steingar said:
Haven't seen me much in these pages for awhile. Didn't crash or get shot in the back by a jealous husband, sadly my absence was utterly mundane. I was flying a Mooney Ranger, one of my most favorite airplanes in all the world (a Mooney Chaparral would be my most favorite) and all was well until the Pandemic. Prices on everything went up, fast. My hangar went from $300 to $550. Avgas went from $4 to $7. Insurance climbed from $1200 to $1800, just like that.

You know what didn't go up at all? My pay. I realized I could no longer afford GA, and had to sell out. My last flight in the Mooney it wouldn't descend. I kid you not, coming into my home drome I pulled out power as I passed the numbers to descend. No joy. Pulled some more as I turned base. Still no descent. I was at idle throttle on long final before the Lucky Strike would start descending. It was as if the airplane knew it was its last flight with me. I miss it more than I can say.

I got the boot from my job for stupid reasons. I got another job, and got kicked out for stupid reasons. I am now retired, and I have same money as the second job I was doing. In a couple years I'll have as much as my first job.

Right now I'm going to school for Airplane Mechanic for free. The bad news is I won't be able to get an A&P license from it, as I am am auditing (though I'm doing far better than anyone else in the class). My plan is afterward I want to go to a company and be an apprentice. Hopefully a year later I can get the license. That, and I do need some extra money for some crap for the Steinholme.

I want to go to the Dark Side, and get and an experimental. Way cheaper, as you all know. My favorite experimental is probably a Vans RV. Can't buy one, the prices are nutz right now, but I do have enough money to get a kit. What I don't have is enough to get a new engine. But, if I have the A&P license I can buy one on the cheap that's got too many hours and do a field overhaul myself. I bet that I can afford.

My only real worry right now is insurance. I think aviation insurance is shrinking like crazy, and it could be that because I'm old they won't allow insurance for an RV. Especially a taildragger RV, which is what I want. My BFR will be taildragger school. We'll see. I recall a guy flying a Mooney who couldn't get insurance because he was 80. I'll be 65 when I start hunting for an airplane, so I am concerned.

So that's why I haven't been around. No flying, no POA. But my toe is getting back into Aviation, and I want to start flying as soon as I can! I'll go absolutely nuts if I can't.

Sincerely,

Your Friendly Neighborhood Steingar
Click to expand...
As a prospective buyer stuck in hold for the last 3 years I can tell you there's been some softening on RV prices. Though I concur, not enough to move the needle/largely still overpriced. I'm also heartened to see you want a taildragger, as I don't need the additional price competition for trikes. :thumbsup:

From a sustainability pov and at your age (I'm presuming here; projecting my bias as someone who wishes to quit the labor force by 57), I believe you're doing the correct thing focusing on EAB, especially now that you can attain inspection authority as a non-builder (which removes the signatory capture, which was the plurality of my fixed expenses, which were mx-decision related).

You're not alone on what drove you out. I'm in the same boat, specifically the powerplant issue. It's a big problem, even in the experimental space.

Good luck with the search, it's still a clown market, largely frozen in 2022 FOMO asking. Right now, it's still just a trawler market. I know you don't wish 2008 on anyone, but that is precisely the kind of cracking event required to regain acquisition affordability. Remember, it's largely loose (inflation fueled) lending that gives rise to these goofy prices in the first place. Threaten the macroeconomics behind that financing-centering scheme, and the toys come out the ledger. Look at the public listings, they're priced on collusion. Everything is proverbial "130K" listed, whether a C-150 or a Turbo Lance. Chaff. Dummy 'trawling' priced, it's like reading battery voltage without load testing. It's not price discovery. As @ArrowFlyer86 has highlighted in his market watch thread: asking prices absent *transactions (*with public inventory size as an inverse proxy for said quantity) is not price discovery.

Lastly, be careful right now. There's a lot of scams going on in the public listings. I'm on the second bid in the past 30 days where bad actors are pawning off airplanes they don't have registered in their possession, quickly make it back to the listing. Like no kidding transactions less than 60 days from sale being immediately being put back on the market. You inquire and poof, you get ghosted or they panic and de-list, put it up again 30 a few weeks later. icky stuff you'd think would be reserved to trading used kitchenware in a mall parking lot after talking for a few days on fakebook marketplace, not a 75K aircraft deal you know? Digressing.
 
steingar said:
I think I do need a license to overhaul a true airplane engine. I want it so that I can do it legally, and so if I buy an experimental I can annual it myself.
Click to expand...
If you're not familiar with the LSRI-A certification, look it up. 2 day course > annual an EAB you own. Also, LSRM-A 2 week course > annual others EAB + count hours toward A&P cert.
 
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steingar said:
but I think I do need a license to overhaul a true airplane engine.
Click to expand...
Only if it goes in a certified airplane. Otherwise, you're free to build, buy, overhaul, or do anything else to the engine you put in a homebuilt. And you don't need supervision or anyone else to review your work or paperwork. But its a good idea if you haven't done it before...
 
kyleb said:
Only if it goes in a certified airplane. Otherwise, you're free to build, buy, overhaul, or do anything else to the engine you put in a homebuilt. And you don't need supervision or anyone else to review your work or paperwork. But its a good idea if you haven't done it before...
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If I build I'll definitely find someone to look over what I've done. What looks good in my eyes might not look so good in others...

Again, thank you all so much for the welcome back.
 
steingar said:
I got the boot from my job for stupid reasons. I got another job, and got kicked out for stupid reasons. I am now retired, and I have same money as the second job I was doing. In a couple years I'll have as much as my first job.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, the real world guidance counselors never speak of. I've had my horse shot out from underneath me a few times as well. If I had stolen office supplies, ran a casino on company property off hours, or started my own import/export business during office hours instead of whatever they were paying me to do, I could see the exit request. But reality is managers and people can go stupid, and as well will set fire to their grandmother's house in order to make the required contribution/profit for the year.

steingar said:
Right now I'm going to school for Airplane Mechanic for free. The bad news is I won't be able to get an A&P license from it, as I am am auditing (though I'm doing far better than anyone else in the class). My plan is afterward I want to go to a company and be an apprentice. Hopefully a year later I can get the license. That, and I do need some extra money for some crap for the Steinholme.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm retired and doing the A&P school thing as well. Suggestion for you - forget the auditing, just sign up and take it for "real" and get your A&P in 1 1/2 years. A&Ps are in such high demand, you can get any part time job you want, and get paid for doing it, and you can work on any plane certified or experimental. The school route will have you graduated with the three written tests and two DME exams completed. You have to do those regardless of the school vs apprentice route, and might as well use a schools resources to help with those tests. Besides, it might be difficult to get hired as a non A&P. You and I have the "he's an old guy" working against us, which can be countered by "he's already got his A&P".

hindsight2020 said:
it's still a clown market,
Click to expand...
This is now going into my "cool phrases I never heard of but need to use" book.
 
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WDD said:
Hey, I'm retired and doing the A&P school things as well. Suggestion for you - forget the auditing, just sign up and take it for "real" and get your A&P in 1 1/2 years.
Click to expand...

Which school are you using, how did you find it, and how much did it cost?

I fantasize about this.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Which school are you using, how did you find it, and how much did it cost?

I fantasize about this.
Click to expand...
I'm at Chattahoochee Tech here in the north west area of Atlanta area. They just opened the A&P school a few years back, built a new school campus / building adjacent to the Paulding airport.

Found it by searching high and low on the internet for trade schools, found this one and found out who was running it. Reached out and spoke with the guy about how the school worked, asked who to talk to about how to apply, who reviews the applications, etc.

In Georgia seniors like me (65) don't pay tuition, I just have to pay $500 or so in "fees" each semester. For non senior students, tuition and fees would be about $5000 a year.

I'm in the night hours version with people who work full time to pay bills and want a new career job as an A&P. We do M-Thurs 4:30 - 8:00 for two years. The Day classes run longer each day but are done in 1 1/2 years.
 
steingar said:
But I still suspect an experimental. Like I said, an RV kit and a runout engine, do an overhaul on the motor and build the kit. Or find one that someone started and ran out of time/juice/interest/whatever. I'd prefer to have the license before I overhaul a real airplane engine, as it will be worth far less being overhauled by a non-A&P since it could never be used on a certificated airplane. Most airplanes are an engine with a worthless airframe attached to it.

Sorry about the long posts, its been a minute.
Click to expand...
if you keep an eye out you could do like me. I found an un loved RV-4 with leaky tanks. Probably could'a been back in the air under $35k all in. Of course I got carried away with fastback mods and avionics. But I should still finish under $60k (and will out run a Mooney ;)).
 
Good to have you back. Sounds like you have a good plan to get back into the air.
 
The only thing more expensive than buying an experimental is building an experimental. God speed.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Which school are you using, how did you find it, and how much did it cost?

I fantasize about this.
Click to expand...
I am using Columbus State, the school is right next to KTZR. There is an old Wheeler Express sitting on the field that I'd love the fly, the thing looks like a hoot. It is about 5K/year for tuition, but I prefer the free route. I don't mind apprenticing for a year, I bet I'll get the gig easily as I'll have been in A&P school so I won't be so green. Whatever I get paid is extra money, so I don't mind. Might even work for a couple years as an A&P. I bet wherever I apprentice will realize that I'm a hard worker, and a smart and enjoyable guy. At least, that's my hope. Could be I'm wrong on all counts, but we'll see.
 
Jjackh01 said:
if you keep an eye out you could do like me. I found an un loved RV-4 with leaky tanks. Probably could'a been back in the air under $35k all in. Of course I got carried away with fastback mods and avionics. But I should still finish under $60k (and will out run a Mooney ;)).
Click to expand...
I I find such an airplane I will jump on it. Redo a runout engine, fix some squawks, I think I can handle it. But right now RVs of all stripes are going for stupid money. Your Steingar isn't that stupid...
 
steingar said:
Haven't seen me much in these pages for awhile. Didn't crash or get shot in the back by a jealous husband, sadly my absence was utterly mundane. I was flying a Mooney Ranger, one of my most favorite airplanes in all the world (a Mooney Chaparral would be my most favorite) and all was well until the Pandemic. Prices on everything went up, fast. My hangar went from $300 to $550. Avgas went from $4 to $7. Insurance climbed from $1200 to $1800, just like that.

You know what didn't go up at all? My pay. I realized I could no longer afford GA, and had to sell out. My last flight in the Mooney it wouldn't descend. I kid you not, coming into my home drome I pulled out power as I passed the numbers to descend. No joy. Pulled some more as I turned base. Still no descent. I was at idle throttle on long final before the Lucky Strike would start descending. It was as if the airplane knew it was its last flight with me. I miss it more than I can say.

I got the boot from my job for stupid reasons. I got another job, and got kicked out for stupid reasons. I am now retired, and I have same money as the second job I was doing. In a couple years I'll have as much as my first job.

Right now I'm going to school for Airplane Mechanic for free. The bad news is I won't be able to get an A&P license from it, as I am am auditing (though I'm doing far better than anyone else in the class). My plan is afterward I want to go to a company and be an apprentice. Hopefully a year later I can get the license. That, and I do need some extra money for some crap for the Steinholme.

I want to go to the Dark Side, and get and an experimental. Way cheaper, as you all know. My favorite experimental is probably a Vans RV. Can't buy one, the prices are nutz right now, but I do have enough money to get a kit. What I don't have is enough to get a new engine. But, if I have the A&P license I can buy one on the cheap that's got too many hours and do a field overhaul myself. I bet that I can afford.

My only real worry right now is insurance. I think aviation insurance is shrinking like crazy, and it could be that because I'm old they won't allow insurance for an RV. Especially a taildragger RV, which is what I want. My BFR will be taildragger school. We'll see. I recall a guy flying a Mooney who couldn't get insurance because he was 80. I'll be 65 when I start hunting for an airplane, so I am concerned.

So that's why I haven't been around. No flying, no POA. But my toe is getting back into Aviation, and I want to start flying as soon as I can! I'll go absolutely nuts if I can't.

Sincerely,

Your Friendly Neighborhood Steingar
Click to expand...
Keep on keeping on. Fight the good fight. Insert other encouraging phrases of your choice here.
 
hindsight2020 said:
…it's still a clown market.
Click to expand...

You aren’t kidding. I sold my Cherokee for $30K in 2019, and it’s listed at $90K today. Same engine with a few hundred more hours on it, same wing spars with a bunch of ADs on them. No thanks, I’ll go work on my golf swing.

I’m afraid many of these planes will be left on the ramp to rot because current owners are too proud to lower their absolutely ridiculous asking prices.
 
flyingfrog said:
I’m afraid many of these planes will be left on the ramp to rot because current owners are too proud to lower their absolutely ridiculous asking prices.
Click to expand...
The prices aren't ridiculous as long as there are people willing to pay them. I know many people that have bought and sold airplanes at these prices.
 
Glad to see you around again, @steingar.

steingar said:
You know what didn't go up at all? My pay. I realized I could no longer afford GA, and had to sell out. My last flight in the Mooney it wouldn't descend. I kid you not, coming into my home drome I pulled out power as I passed the numbers to descend. No joy. Pulled some more as I turned base. Still no descent. I was at idle throttle on long final before the Lucky Strike would start descending. It was as if the airplane knew it was its last flight with me. I miss it more than I can say.
Click to expand...
Fitting; first, a Cherokee that flies like an anvil, then a Mooney that refused to come down... :rofl:
 
steingar said:
I I find such an airplane I will jump on it. Redo a runout engine, fix some squawks, I think I can handle it. But right now RVs of all stripes are going for stupid money. Your Steingar isn't that stupid...
Click to expand...
Hello Steingar ! I will soon have my RV6A up for sale. Pictured. DM me if interested.
 
He wants a taildragger. I however, want a nose draggger, so if you're willing to share the linko, I'd be interested in taking a look.
 
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