The time has come...

No one is getting out in a hurry post accident with child seats in the way. Forget about getting by to use the loo inflight if you are inside an aisle with child seats. Kids will survive the crash to burn to death with all the trapped adults. Brilliant.
 
ClimbnSink said:
No one is getting out in a hurry post accident with child seats in the way. Forget about getting by to use the loo inflight if you are inside an aisle with child seats. Kids will survive the crash to burn to death with all the trapped adults. Brilliant.
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Now now Gregg, don't come injecting common sense into this poorly conceived solution for a non-existent problem.
 
flightwriter said:
I'm fine with that, except we also then need to remove the threat of legal action against the airline/automobile/cruise line if the child is injured due to the parents' decision.
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Completely agree except it needs to be taken further. If the parent's decision causes injury to the child (or anyone else) then that's criminal and should be treated as such. Take the responsibility and then be responsible.
 
I favor requiring a seat for each soul on board. Safety is a factor, but so is the condition lap children create for other pax in the immediate area. It is ludicrous to suggest that a baby or toddler genuinely consumes less space (in net) than an older child, especially after factoring in the attendant stuff and space required for proper pea-picker maintenance.
 
If I die and wake up on an airliner seated next to an infant, I'll know I went to hell.

Add putting a ball-gag in their mouth to the car seat proposal.
 
txflyer said:
If I die and wake up on an airliner seated next to an infant, I'll know I went to hell.



Add putting a ball-gag in their mouth to the car seat proposal.
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There were two of them last night on a six hour flight from Dulles to Sac. Not even my Bose ANR headphones could keep it all out. I walked off with a splitting headache.
 
I got to ride in front of two kids, maybe 4-5. They fought, yelled, kicked, you name it. Then we finally took off and one promptly puked all over the both of them. Good times. But I've flown with my kids, too.
 
docmirror said:
The time has come(long past, really) to get the govt out of family issues and let parents decide the risk associated with their kids. If a parent wants to risk an airplane flight without restraints on the child, then so be it. If they want to buy an extra ticket, child safety seat, and buckle them in they can do that. If the parent wants to alternatively go by ground, or sea, or walk they can do that.

Go away with your laws, rules, regulations for children outside of the workplace. Just go away.
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I would agree with most of this. It should be personal choice whether you wear a helmet on a motorcycle, seatbelts in a car or bus, child seat your kids, or a bunch of other governmental intrusions that our elected officials don't believe we are capable of making choices for ourselves or family. And while I'm at it, I do not necessarily believe helmets, seatbelts, or carseats are wrong, I just believe it is my choice. Then again, without all these intrusions into our lives, the government would go broke since they can't fine us for the choices WE should be making on our own.
Is it bad parenting if you take the bubble wrap off your kid and sail around the world, leave on a jet plane without carseats, or let them play in the driveway behind your family SUV?
 
Here's another wrinkle for airline travel that probably doesn't affect our personal aircraft. In the case of depressurization, an oxygen mask drops for each seat. If every seat is occupied and you are carrying your infant/toddler on your lap to save the cost of a seat and the masks drop, you have a decision to make. Who gets the oxygen?
 
AuntPeggy said:
Here's another wrinkle for airline travel that probably doesn't affect our personal aircraft. In the case of depressurization, an oxygen mask drops for each seat. If every seat is occupied and you are carrying your infant/toddler on your lap to save the cost of a seat and the masks drop, you have a decision to make. Who gets the oxygen?
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I've never seen the rubber jungle deployed, but I seem to recall that there are 4 masks for each row of three seats for that specific purpose.

Edit: I was correct, 4 masks per row of three seats. From JetBlue's website:

"One lap child per adult is allowed. Due to the number of oxygen masks per row, only one lap child is allowed per row of three seats"
 
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ClimbnSink said:
No one is getting out in a hurry post accident with child seats in the way. Forget about getting by to use the loo inflight if you are inside an aisle with child seats. Kids will survive the crash to burn to death with all the trapped adults. Brilliant.
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They don't allow child seats in the exit rows. If you are trapped by a child seat in the row in which you are sitting you would need to be pretty large.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
We had one of these for a couple years. Was really convenient for GA travel, since we didn't have to schlep a separate stroller. Not cheap though.

http://www.amazon.com/Lilly-Gold-Stroller-Combination-sunshade/dp/B004EBUP1A
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How long ago was that? Because many strollers now have a car seat/stroller combo. Mine does. I can pop the car seat into and out of the stroller base in seconds. When my child was an infant, I just used the car seat and stroller base and not the stroller seat. So when traveling, I popped the car seat out and gate-checked the stroller. Very easy.
 
ClimbnSink said:
No one is getting out in a hurry post accident with child seats in the way. Forget about getting by to use the loo inflight if you are inside an aisle with child seats. Kids will survive the crash to burn to death with all the trapped adults. Brilliant.
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The car seat with infant goes on inside seats not the aisle seats. The middle rows have two aisles. Mine was in the middle of three seats, with us on either end. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about.
 
docmirror said:
When I was a kid, my mom had a 50s Nash with a bench seat in front. I can recall as a kid of 3 or so standing on the front seat and leaning against the seat back. When my mom would go around a right turn, I would make a game of standing still, and then tumbling over into her shoulder, then she would push me back upright like a robot. Once I did it on a left turn, and almost went out the window. Ah - the 50s.
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My parents had T-Bird, I'd ride laying above/behind the back seat pressed against the back window. Was peaceful until the brakes were abruptly pressed. I recall sitting in my mothers lap and I've traveled many miles in the back of a Chevy truck. Amazingly, I survived without tons of government laws.

it looked just like this, same color and everything.

320px-77-79_Ford_Thunderbird.jpg
 
I want to point out that all of you who complain and say it's stupid to require a seat for an infant, also complain about screaming infants on airplanes. I strongly suspect that one reason so many infants scream is they are just uncomfortable! Sitting on someone's lap for hours is not comfortable. I flew to/from Europe on eight hour flights with my infant in a car seat and she slept most of the way because she was in a comfortable familiar car seat. I would not want to have her sitting on my lap for 8+ hours. And those of you who don't even have kids, your opinion is pretty worthless.
 
bluee said:
I want to point out that all of you who complain and say it's stupid to require a seat for an infant, also complain about screaming infants on airplanes. I strongly suspect that one reason so many infants scream is they are just uncomfortable! Sitting on someone's lap for hours is not comfortable. I flew to/from Europe on eight hour flights with my infant in a car seat and she slept most of the way because she was in a comfortable familiar car seat. I would not want to have her sitting on my lap for 8+ hours. And those of you who don't even have kids, your opinion is pretty worthless.
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I know I don't give a crap if you pack your kids in luggage and check them. I'm certianly not cheerleading for more laws.

I'll reserve the right to roll my eyes at you if you make a dumbass decision to let your child sit on your lap for 15 hours. But I'm not lobbying to take that choice away from everyone because there are a few a lot of dumbasses with offspring out there.
 
bartmc said:
I know I don't give a crap if you pack your kids in luggage and check them. I'm certianly not cheerleading for more laws.

I'll reserve the right to roll my eyes at you if you make a dumbass decision to let your child sit on your lap for 15 hours. But I'm not lobbying to take that choice away from everyone because there are a few a lot of dumbasses with offspring out there.
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I could not have said it better myself.
 
Well then don't complain when you hear screaming kids.
 
bluee said:
Well then don't complain when you hear screaming kids.
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So now it's the government's role to inact laws that protect us against screaming kids? WOW! I'm not allowed to complain because someone made a legal but poor choice? Because there's no law against it? WOW! Why don't we just go ahead and make it illegal to complain?

Your kids may or may not be fine in your lap on a flight from Kansas City to Bombay. You know them better than the goverment does, be a grown up and make the right choice. Just because Patty in seat 3C didn't. It doesn't mean we need to take the choice away from everyone else.
 
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I really don't give a crap what you think. I highly doubt the laws will change anyway.
 
bluee said:
I really don't give a crap what you think. I highly doubt the laws will change anyway.
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That's very obvious, and the problem. You want to roll out laws that effect everyone else without giving a crap what they think.
 
Actually no. I never said I was in favor of the laws. I said I traveled with my kid in a car seat. I also said I think infants cry because they are not comfortable, and probably would be more comfortable in a car seat. I really don't care what other people do, except that crying infants bother everyone.
 
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AuntPeggy said:
How easy is it to transition?
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About 15 seconds. The wheels just pop out of the bottom. It basically is a "retractable gear" stroller. The advantage over the stroller/car seat combos is that it is much smaller, all-in-one unit. The only disadvantages are the wheels are a bit small, so going off-pavement doesn't really work (short carpets are fine), and there isn't much storage space for miscellaneous baby-gear.
 
bluee said:
How long ago was that? Because many strollers now have a car seat/stroller combo. Mine does. I can pop the car seat into and out of the stroller base in seconds. When my child was an infant, I just used the car seat and stroller base and not the stroller seat. So when traveling, I popped the car seat out and gate-checked the stroller. Very easy.
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The big problem for us with those was the size of the stroller unit - it would take up most of the back of the 182.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Here's another wrinkle for airline travel that probably doesn't affect our personal aircraft. In the case of depressurization, an oxygen mask drops for each seat. If every seat is occupied and you are carrying your infant/toddler on your lap to save the cost of a seat and the masks drop, you have a decision to make. Who gets the oxygen?
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I think (but am not sure) that the standards call for 125 percent as many masks as there are seats, or something along those lines. Maybe it was four for three, or one more mask than seats in the row... something like that. I think I remember something along those lines from when I was in A&P training. But I wouldn't swear to it.

-Rich

EDIT: Never mind. Fearless Tower looked it up. I was too lazy. :redface:
 
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RJM62 said:
I think (but am not sure) that the standards call for 125 percent as many masks as there are seats, or something along those lines. Maybe it was four for three, or one more mask than seats in the row... something like that. I think I remember something along those lines from when I was in A&P training. But I wouldn't swear to it.

-Rich

EDIT: Never mind. Fearless Tower looked it up. I was too lazy. :redface:
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Sorry. I was misinformed about the number of masks.
 
Each child should be restrained in some sort of approved child seat, from infant on up. If that requires the parent buy a seat, so be it. If that requires the airline provide an approved seat (for a nominal additional charge), SO BE IT. As I recall, there were one or two so called lap children on United 232 that perished that would have otherwise had a chance had they been properly restrained.
 
DavidWhite said:
Stupid solution to a non-existent problem. Right along the lines of this posters MO.
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DavidWhite said:
Now now Gregg, don't come injecting common sense into this poorly conceived solution for a non-existent problem.
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David, you are certainly welcome to your opinion. I can see you have a strong one here. But it isn't really a non existent problem. Every time a so called lap child is allowed on a flight, the potential exists for a bad outcome for that child.

Not all accidents are fatal. Witness UAL 232. ANY unrestrained object becomes a hazard, and that includes infants and toddlers.

Every child should be restrained in a seat with some sort of approved child seat. And the parent should be required to purchase that seat. They are going to have to when the child reaches the age of 2 anyway.

I really don't see the issue here. If a parent would not otherwise fly, they will not otherwise fly when the child reaches the age of 2. It really IS a safety issue, not only for the child, but for the passengers around that child.
 
The saddest part of the whole discussion is that mom and dad don't find their progeny worth $150. I'm not much of a government rule pusher, but that little ankle biter is definitely worth more than that to Uncle Sam in taxes. I could see why Uncle would mandate a seat purchase to protect their investment from the breeding stock.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Each child should be restrained in some sort of approved child seat, from infant on up. If that requires the parent buy a seat, so be it. If that requires the airline provide an approved seat (for a nominal additional charge), SO BE IT. As I recall, there were one or two so called lap children on United 232 that perished that would have otherwise had a chance had they been properly restrained.
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I believe there was one who perished, due to smoke inhalation, not trauma. If anything, United 232 would seem to support the argument that traveling as a lap child does not present a substantial risk to survival in the event of a crash.

How many properly restrained adults perished on United 232?


JKG
 
I believe that a baby's life is the most important life there is, and I can't imagine forcing a lethal risk onto a baby that I wouldn't take myself.

I always paid for a ticket for my baby, so the baby could fly as safely as me, in a car seat.

Most parents don't think that way, though. It is so rare to pay for a ticket for a baby that a parent who actually does so (that was me) practically has to fight the flight attendant to board the plane with the seat. Upon spotting the car seat when I was boarding, flight attendants would never ask me, "Sir, does your infant have a ticket?" Instead they automatically told me I can't bring the seat on board, it must be checked.
 
Sure I think it should be required.

And all those people on board who take up all of their seat...along with half of yours...should have to split the cost of the kid's the seat!

:goofy:
 
If I had a kid I'd put them in a car seat or some kind of restraint but do we really need more laws and regulations to do something that common sense would already demand and any parent can do anyway?
 
NoHeat said:
I believe that a baby's life is the most important life there is, and I can't imagine forcing a lethal risk onto a baby that I wouldn't take myself.

I always paid for a ticket for my baby, so the baby could fly as safely as me, in a car seat.

Most parents don't think that way, though. It is so rare to pay for a ticket for a baby that a parent who actually does so (that was me) practically has to fight the flight attendant to board the plane with the seat. Upon spotting the car seat when I was boarding, flight attendants would never ask me, "Sir, does your infant have a ticket?" Instead they automatically told me I can't bring the seat on board, it must be checked.
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I also bought my baby a ticket. I took several flights with my infant and her car seat, and the flight attendants never said anything to me. I just buckled her car seat in, no one said a word to me.
 
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