The testing center has accused me of cheating on my IR written.

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by SixPapaCharlie, Feb 14, 2020.

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  1. Arnold

    Arnold Line Up and Wait

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    I've read all three pages. I don't see the humor, but I'm just an old guy.

    1) Truth is a complete defense to defamation. Motives don't matter.
    2) OP admits in his post about his written expiring that he does stupid thing.
    3) Is someone who is self destructive and incapable of thinking his actions might have consequences a pilot you want to share the sky with?

    OP will get away with this, not because his post was only a "joke" but because it appears in the end he did nothing wrong with regard to the exam.
    If I was running the exam location I would sue him for defamation and let a judge or jury (I'd go bench trial everyone knows judges have no sense of humor) decide if a post that states the school permits cheating is defamation.

    Lastly: Y'all know this board is not private - don't you?
     
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  2. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Pattern Altitude

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    Bryan: "Take my wife, please."
    Random person: [actually takes Bryan's wife]
    Bryan: "WTF man!?"
     
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  3. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    I bet this is a joke. A publicity stunt. Or not.

    If it is, it’s brilliant.
     
  4. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You can avoid the rap, but you can't avoid the ride....

    They want you to assimilate.

    FAA has to investigate a complaint. The school knows there will be no blowback to them for reporting - they have a certain obligation to do so with the FAA. The FAA can't come down on them for making a potentially valid report. Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe might find a way to rattle the cage of the school if they can prove that the schools action was malicious, but that's really hard to do and not worth the time or money.

    Remember the term BOHICA. And "Don't **** into the wind".
     
  5. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I disagree completely, as your statement below shows I would have found the humor in it whether they were tagged or not.

    and I still have zero clue how tagging the testing center would have even been a thought in the first place. I may start tagging businesses now:

    "I cooked a nice meal for m'lady yesterday for valentines day. hashtagPublix"

    "after the meal I cooked yesterday, I've been spending a lot of time on the toilet. hashtagLowesPlumbingSection"

    "after my dump I took a flight and got flight following. hashtagATC"

    "on my way home from the airport I ran a red light. hashtagLocalPoliceDept"
     
  6. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    A social media comment on a platform they signed up for willingly, but have no idea how to use, which provides them exactly zero customers and is unnecessary, is vandalism.

    Hilarious.

    You know how easy ANYBODY could have pretended to be Bryan or anyone else and posted that?

    Here’s a clue: Hit delete. FB isn’t reality.

    They do actually have a way to tell he didn’t cheat. It’s the entire reason they exist.

    Think real hard about it. It’s the only value add they have to even exist.

    If they don’t know how to operate it... before calling their customer... because a social media comment panicked them...

    I’m still going with “idiot owner” here. Nice try.
     
  7. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Is that something new? I don’t recall them taking my phone away when I took my written.
     
  8. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    You’re sharing the sky with people who have far more dangerous deficiencies than that, IMO.
     
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  9. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    I took the tests in 2012-2013, so not that new


    Tom
     
  10. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Nah. Stupid business owner who doesn’t know anybody can make any Facebook account under any person’s name.

    Doesn’t understand the platform nor the tech and doesn’t even need to be there.

    Doesn’t understand their role as tester has absolutely and unequivocally nothing whatsoever to do with Facebook. EVER.

    Needs to fully understand how to operate one system, their cameras, considering it’s the only reason they even exist as a business...
     
  11. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Don’t tag where you took the test, you’ll be put on “the list” :)
     
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  12. Arnold

    Arnold Line Up and Wait

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    This is sociologically fascinating. The generational divide is startk.

    Old Guys - you're responsible for what you post, live with it.
    Young Guys - they could easily have determined this was joke, it's harassment.

    Naturally there is some cross pollination.
     
  13. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    If it were me, I would have already posted a “mea culpa” to my followers. So when you talk to FAA, you can show, hey my bad, I already let everyone know it was a bad joke.


    Tom
     
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  14. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    If what Bryan says is true, I’d say the testing center owner should go to jail for making false accusations of FAR violation.

    does that make me a young guy or an old guy? ;)
     
  15. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    Maybe I missed it but how does his followers know it was a joke? They may have the time stamp of the post, but they don’t know if he was taking the test or not?



    Tom
     
  16. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    True for me and you...but reality is whatever someone makes it. There are plenty of people who believe if it’s on FB that it’s real. They don’t have to be right in order to act on it and make it real.
     
  17. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Hm, I took mine in 2013 also. Maybe testing center specific?
     
  18. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Cleared for Takeoff

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    This is the culture of social media, "Look at me!", "Look at what I'm doing!". The constant search for "content" for their various outlets, and the constant need for attention. Just take a look at this thread, 135 post over 4 pages, and it will continue for quite some time.

    The OP is getting exactly what he is after, which is attention, here and his social media. And everyone is playing into it. Don't think for one minute this will curtail the OP from doing something else ignorant, he's only encouraged by all the attention.
     
  19. Walboy

    Walboy Cleared for Takeoff

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    Reminds me of Petty Officer Third Class Jones telling the rest of the crew on the bridge the Admiral has no idea of what he's doing.
     
  20. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    The list of approved items in the test facility hasn’t changed in decades for FAA.

    All unapproved electronic devices are supposed to go in a locker, or back in your car, or whatever.

    They don’t typically frisk or pat your junk like TSA, so if it’s on silent, they’re generally not going to notice.

    If it makes noise, another test taker may complain. Or if the proctor is in earshot they’ll notice.

    Most of the sites do testing for multiple customers besides FAA and many have no rule about having a phone in your pocket or various other stuff for certain tests.

    Some are even open book.

    So no. Not new. They probably missed it. If you didn’t whip it out, they just didn’t notice it.
     
  21. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Roger that. It’s been 7 years ago now, maybe they did take it, I don’t recall for sure.
     
  22. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Pattern Altitude

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    Right - this isn't (fake) politics it's a company he eff'd with by tagging it. They have the right to protect their reputation/brand, etc. On the face of it (and no one has all the facts here) I cannot point blame at the owner of the company. It's not like they publicly outed Bryan though maybe not the *best* way to handle it.
     
  23. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    Interesting how American Flyers doesn't know how to spell "Addison" in their tag...
     
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  24. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    Mine took it seriously, they videotaped the test, they took my electronic devices, they would allow a electronic E6B, but they would erase all the memory first. They would not allow any paper unless supplied by them, and ditto for the pencils I believe. I was a little put off at first. Mine was at a 141 school, I believed they needed to protect themselves to keep the certification.


    Tom
     
  25. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    The lowest bidder contractor who’s only role is to watch video cameras aren’t tempered with and reboot PCs they don’t understand once their call center in India tells them to... somehow made Admiral, eh?

    ROFLMAO.

    I knew a franchisee personally. He was computer illiterate. Nice guy but shouldn’t have ever been running a test facility.

    He eventually lost the testing franchise, but not over his literally nonexistent computer skills.

    He definitely wouldn’t have had any idea how to manage a social media page.
     
  26. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Except that
    Oh, please. Do you know how many thieves and other criminals are caught because of their FB posts? And unless someone hijacked this particular FB account, it sure looks as if it's the right one.
    It was a stupid post. Not even funny, as most of his stuff is. But just stupid. And the outcome was predictable. You cannot expect someone running a testing facility to ignore that post.
     
  27. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I do recall mine doing all of the above as well. Come to think of it, I do believe they did have me place my phone into a basket before going into the room.
     
  28. Walboy

    Walboy Cleared for Takeoff

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    All the FAA test centers I have been to are incidental to the flight instruction business. The businesses are under far more scrutiny than just written testing operations. American Flyers certainly fits in this category.

    IMO, you're painting with a broad brush.

    Edited to add: within 150 miles of my location, there are 27 test centers, 23 of which are affiliated with some sort of aviation enterprise. 85% are not just stand alone test centers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  29. PeterNSteinmetz

    PeterNSteinmetz Cleared for Takeoff

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    Usually the people who enforce these rule hierarchies take them rather seriously.

    One time a student turned a receipt for a new coffee maker for the lab to be reimbursed. Description of expense was “programmer refueling device”. Our department administrator was not amused
     
  30. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    My perspective: anyone who has taken an FAA written exam in the last 15 years or so knows that there is no reasonable way that someone could be consulting an electronic device while a test was underway; no devices into the room, and full-time proctor monitoring.

    Of greater concern, though, is this: the guy who reported him had the absolute ability to know what was going on - either (1) he knew, from reviewing the information readily available (time stamp, test-administration records and videos, etc.) that there was no cheating going on, or (2) he declined to make the trivially-simple effort to determine whether such (improbable) activity actually took place. In neither event is the basic threshold of common sense satisfied. Plus (and let's be real here folks), if someone is dense enough to believe a person seeking surreptitious assistance on a test would post on Facebook instead of a quick, clean, Google-fu session, well, I believe they need a remedial lobotomy.

    So, I remain resolutely convinced: total dick move. And yes, possibly something worse.
     
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  31. dbahn

    dbahn Pre-takeoff checklist

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    What IS the distance in miles between VORs at different altitudes? :rolleyes:
     
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  32. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    You can. The owner of the company has nothing in his contract to PSI nor FAA to maintain a presence on, monitor, or otherwise accuse anyone of anything from an unauthenticated, untraceable, easily spoofed Facebook account.

    Or any other social media.

    FSDO and PSI both should slap him really hard for a false report of inappropriate behavior if he didn’t check his own cameras first, based off a social media comment.

    Additionally PSI themselves should have a social media expert on staff at corporate and a solid social media policy which likely precludes local franchisees handling their own pages, without training and... gasp... a test. LOL.

    I wonder who they could get to proctor such a thing...? :)

    A business owner does have a right to do whatever the platform they’ve chosen to use allows. Namely, delete posts.

    Social media has absolutely nothing to do with their contract to PSI or FAA.

    This owner richly deserves all the bad press he gets from harassing a customer outside of his contracted role.

    The camera he’s responsible to operate and is literally the only reason his business exists, won’t lie. He’ll learn real quick not to make up crap to tell FAA about or even attempt to interpret Facebook posts by customers.

    His own camera system, the most important part of his business, is about to hang him.

    You’d think... just think... he might have wanted to look at the footage before crying wolf to anyone...
     
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  33. PeterNSteinmetz

    PeterNSteinmetz Cleared for Takeoff

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    I appreciate @SixPapaCharlie ‘s humor a fair amount. And I hope he is able to continue. OTOH, I don’t ever expect the FAA or their testing contractors to have any sense of humor about these things.
     
  34. Walboy

    Walboy Cleared for Takeoff

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    Why are you repeating this? It's simply not true. American Flyers is in the Flight Instruction business.
     
  35. Witmo

    Witmo Pattern Altitude

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    It's not the testing center's responsibility to investigate anything. They are not there to prevent people cheating. They are there to provide a place and the materials to take a test, to explain the rules and monitor the taking of the test. If they suspect someone has broken a rule, it's their responsibility to inform the FAA and then the FAA can review the video, depose the proctor and test taker, ie. investigate. I have no sympathy for a person walking into an airport and making a joke that their laptop is a bomb and being arrested nor do I have any sympathy for a person about to take a test "joking" about soliciting answers to said test in violation of the test rules. I taught in a community college and have seen students attempt to use their phones to cheat so it's a real thing. IDs can be spoofed and I wouldn't doubt someone somewhere can alter time stamps on posts. I doubt a testing center is inclined to hire a computer forensics expert to determine the "validity" of a social media post.
     
  36. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    FAA isn’t going to care. They’re not allowed to use social media posts as evidence in anything.

    What they will care about is the camera footage. Which is also all they ask of the testing contractor.

    Basically you have a moron testing contractor who went way outside his swim lane and triggered another “we don’t have a choice but to investigate” waste of time for his customer. Who’s just going to review his camera footage and ask him if he’s an idiot.
     
  37. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    99% of the social media post overreactions are harmless. This however falls in to the 1% category.
     
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  38. Arnold

    Arnold Line Up and Wait

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    This got longer than I thought it would.

    Member 619 - middle aged guy - at least .
    Maule in your handle, probably a taildragger pilot - good guy - at least benefit of the doubt.

    Interesting -

    1) I you are correct that we do not know Bryan's veracity - but we do know that he made a public post that at least implied he was cheating and now says it was a joke. The time stamp (if they cannot be spoofed) cleans this up. But note, when he posted it there was no indication that he was not in the midst of the exam. Only he and the center knew the time for the exam (based on the post) so any outsider would believe he was indeed cheating and the test center hadn't caught him.

    [Aside - why would someone write a joke that requires looking at the timestamp to understand that it is a joke? I'd be concerned for his comedy career as much as his flying career.]

    2) According to Bryan (see 1 above) he was told he cannot register for more tests until this is cleared up. Seems like a modest inconvenience considering he started this.

    I don't see where the testing center has any liability. They were made aware by the applicant himself that he might be cheating and took actions that are probably required by their contract. Bryan advertised enough information to raise that suspicion. They would likely be at least in breach of their contract if they did not report the matter.

    There is no statute criminalizing reporting of suspected violations of the law. In fact that would not be in society's interest. We want people to come forward when they suspect an illegal act. You may point to Bryan's statement saying that the center official knew it was only a joke, but see 1 above, we don't know when he is telling the truth (your assertion, not mine) personally I think he is being truthful here. Even if the center official's motives were malicious, unless he made an untrue statement he and the center are not liable. Example: You are a member of the military where adultery is still a criminal offense. You catch your wife cheating with another military member. You become angry and notify the chain of command. The adulterer has no cause of action against you so long as your report was truthful.
     
  39. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    I interpreted his post as referring to PSI, who was apparently the author of the letter. Since PSI operates all testing centers and controls registration (you can't register directly at the test site anymore) this would mean he can't take a written test again, ever, anywhere.
     
  40. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Testing procedures and the test software itself were totally overhauled a couple weeks ago.
     
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