the responsibility of kids on board

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R2019

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R2019
I recently started flying again after almost a twenty year break. I’m definitely not a cocky twenty-year-old anymore, and while I’m getting more confident in the plane with a CFI and solo, I’m not crazy about the responsibility of bringing my kids along. Parents, any practical advice for me?
 
Have a good safety briefing....if they are old enough make sure they can work the seatbelts and doors and brief an emergency exit plan. Who gets out first and who helps who.

Also explain that there are times you'll need them to be quiet. My 4 YO is a chatterbox and I sometimes have to use the isolate switch.

I remind them where they can find air sickness bags and how to work the air vents. Basically anything I can think of that they might ask for while I'm busy flying the airplane. The biggest thing I've found with my kids (1-12) is they are constantly doing something distracting, so you have to be disciplined in ignoring them during high workload times.

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Make sure you're doing your part, including basics like W&B. You have weighed your kids.... right?

My girls get bored looking out the window, so having them bring a book or tablet on a longer trip prevents fighting.
 
I fly with the kiddos a lot, set your expectations and rules up front...on final is no time to negotiate the rules. My 5yo is a veteran now, she has been flying since she was 4 weeks old and is a better passenger than my lovely wife....not to mention a better co pilot. Jim K hit it on the head..."disciplined during high work loads"...ie iso-switch! it will be your best friend. However, I encourage you to let the kids fly a bit and wonder around the sky...as i said my 5YO is a damn good co-pilot, she can follow a heading and maintain altitude better than the wife, this is only because she has been right seat with me for hours and hours.
 
R2019 said:
I recently started flying again after almost a twenty year break. I’m definitely not a cocky twenty-year-old anymore, and while I’m getting more confident in the plane with a CFI and solo, I’m not crazy about the responsibility of bringing my kids along. Parents, any practical advice for me?
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What do you mean by “the responsibility”?
Is it the behavioral issues alluded to by other posters, or you just don’t think it’s safe enough in general for your kids?
 
My advice is to bring a good partner to manage things until you know they aren’t going to scream the whole time and require a lot of your attention.

If your question was more about risk... can’t really help you. It is what it is.
 
My kids have all flown with me since they were 6-10 weeks old, younger kids need another adult they can be a big distraction. My wife has flown in the back of the plane since our 31 year old daughter was 6 weeks old! She likes it now and only flies up front in the 182, I don't think she's sat in the front in any twin I have ever owned. :D Two of my three kids like flying, the youngest one has his private ticket. The middle one hates it, he doesn't mind riding motorcycles 100 mph, but he's nervous in an airplane!! :rolleyes:
Try to keep them busy, most kids will go to sleep, I remember flying with my dad when he started flying, I was about 8 or 9 and I would be all into it, then wake up when we landed.
 
R2019 said:
I recently started flying again after almost a twenty year break. I’m definitely not a cocky twenty-year-old anymore, and while I’m getting more confident in the plane with a CFI and solo, I’m not crazy about the responsibility of bringing my kids along. Parents, any practical advice for me?
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I’m in the same boat and have the same thoughts. I slowly worked my 4 year old into it. Had her help clean the plane then sit inside and look around. She was afraid to fly. Another trip I had her sit in the front, started the plane up, gave her a headset and Let her use the controls. She loved it. This past week she wanted to fly so brought her up. Loved it and was asleep 15 minutes into it for the remaining of the 2 hours of flight. Lol
I also would have nervous thoughts of flying with them, in case something went wrong. I guess it’s just something I have to get over with confidence.
 
Flying with kids on board is a big responsibility, but so is flying with any passenger. I’m sure you don’t bat an eyelash driving your kids places... don’t overthink it.
 
I have had my ticket during my sons 8-10 years of age. He sits in the back. He sits directly behind me if his mom is right seat. He is In the right rear seat if it is just he and I so I can see him. He has ANR Bluetooth headsets that are not part of my comm (my plan only has two place comm). He looks out the window, eats Doritos, plays on his iPad and sleeps. He knows I’ll help him if I can and knows I’ll ignore him if I can’t. He LOVES flying and is very inquisitive.

It seems you may be asking of the risk. We are not crazy but risk is only one factor in deciding what things we do as a family.
 
N747JB said:
Try to keep them busy, most kids will go to sleep, I remember flying with my dad when he started flying, I was about 8 or 9 and I would be all into it, then wake up when we landed.
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Haha that’s a good point - they do generally fall asleep, and my 3-1/2 year old does the same thing: gets all excited to go flying, and is passed out by the time we hit the runway. Upon shut down he wakes up and is disappointed we’re done hah.

We started our first around 9 months and our second around 6 weeks. It’s fine in all cases, but you need someone else that can manage them. My wife finally started sitting up front again for a little while there, but now it’s back to the middle seats for #2!
 
I fly a Cherokee 6 with my family of 4 on board.

I think it's great to recognize the additional pressures that flying with family can place on you as the pilot and how it may complicate certain scenarios. The family dynamic can inform the PIC/Passenger relationship and must sometimes be specifically and emphatically defined before each flight. I have personally been working on training my family about PIC authority. I had an open door situation in which my wife and kids were trying to weigh in on the decision to carry on with the flight or return to airport to close the slightly ajar door. Although I had made up my mind to return, I didn't exert my PIC authority externally and some discussion continued. We have reviewed this incident and everyone has a new understanding.

Another factor to consider is how you will or won't allow the possible reactions of your family to inform tough decisions about go/no go or diverting, etc. The pressure not to disappoint children or spouse can be greater than the pressure to not disappoint some other passenger. In my family we often talk about a pilot's responsibility for a safe outcome at the expense of sometimes not completing the mission. We try to use this as a life lesson for the kids that sometimes doing the right or safe thing will be unpopular and be a lot less fun in the short term. Making the unpopular decision for the benefit of others (even when sometimes they may be unappreciative or resistant) takes courage and resolve.

Distraction in the cockpit must also be managed. An ISO button on the audio panel goes a long way as a last resort, but the best is to educate your family on the different phases of flight and ask them to remain quiet during critical phases.
As far as overall risk, I try to make the smartest and safest decisions possible with family aboard and I consider their presence as another factor that complicates a flight. It is a good idea to revise your personal mins considering onboard family as a unique and additional factor. Thinking about how your family will react to flight in IMC, turbulence, or and adverse conditions can go a long way to planning how you will handle those reactions and deal with the situation....and can help determine if you should actually launch on that particular flight.

Flying with your family can be the most fun and rewarding type of flying you can do!
 
Flying with my kids has never been an issue. Isolating the comms when necessary is a great tool and my wife is too tall to sit in the back of an arrow comfortably so we rely on my oldest to look after the youngest. Here is a photo from Sept. 11 2015 when the baby was 1 month old and my 3 year old was looking after him during the flight. Now that they are bigger, tablets and pilot isolation are more important.
 

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Worst thing I have ever experienced when flying with my kids was on a long flight in a C310 when my oldest son was under 2 years old.

He got a little cranky so we took him out of his car seat and put him in my wifes lap up front. When it was time to start the descent, he didn't want to go back into the car seat so my wife buckled him in with her and held him in her lap. He was perfectly content with sitting there.

He's 15 years old now and he and his brother have flown all over with us.

The responsibility of flying with kids is no different than any other passenger.

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Fly in the morning or evening when it’s smoother and less traffic to deal with. Make first flight a short one and sightseeing is goal, not trying to actually get anywhere. Protect the hearing, notice picture above of a 3 year old without a headset...they’ll want to pull it off. Try not to get distracted from your primary responsibility...flying the airplane.
 
Offer to take your kids flying, even if it's just laps around the patch.
Let them take part in the briefing and checklist procedures.
Show them an itemized list of what it cost to fly, and the total cost spent to get your license and flying to date.
Then tell them "This is how I'm squandering your inheritance. Better plan on getting a really good job, because you are going to be supporting me and my expensive hobby."
Nothing like a Hallmark moment with your kids.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Fly in the morning or evening when it’s smoother and less traffic to deal with. Make first flight a short one and sightseeing is goal, not trying to actually get anywhere. Protect the hearing, notice picture above of a 3 year old without a headset...they’ll want to pull it off. Try not to get distracted from your primary responsibility...flying the airplane.
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We were still on the ground when that photo was taken. He loved being allowed to talk on the intercom and I fell in love with the iso switch...
 
Just know how to manage the distraction.
Some of my favorite flights have been with my oldest daughter. Trip to TN for the eclipse when she was 4, two trips to Oshkosh. She started at 3 months and started flying solo with me at 2 years. She’s flown IFR/IMC and knows to be quiet. Dynamic with a second kid has changed a bit - now they feed into each other. No different than other passengers. Know how to predict little ones behaviors and needs. If the potty is needed NOW you’re probably making a pit stop- plan for that. I think flying with family and all the distractions that go along with it, but still managing risks appropriately, and still flying the plane, have made me a better pilot overall. Getting seat back repeatedly kicked while doing an approach in IMC - check. Night terror wake up base to final. Check. Need to divert because family dog is having a seizure in the back. Yup. If I ever venture into contract flying and have a plane full of rock stars - I’ll have had similar experiences with small children :).
 
I'm very comfortable with risk to myself. 20 years in Army Special Forces. Personal hobbies are aerobatics, rock climbing, and back country skiing. But I am a total coward when it comes to my family. Kids are 17 and 19. Neither has ever flown with me. Wife flew once or twice 25 years ago when I first got my PP, hated it, never flew with me again. Not proud or happy about this situation, but it is what it is.
 
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I have 9 and 11 yo boys. Flying with me for last two years. I first took them in the pattern and planned to ‘buzz’ their friends house. -friend made a sign. then took them for lunch/ice cream on a short flight. Then to our beach hang out-bout an hour.
now they tolerate longer flights. Things to keep in mind.
-no screen time on climb out or descent-easy to get car/air sick then.
-have bags ready for barfing. Just in case
-hard rule of no talking on climb and descents. Hand goes up-silence from them
-watch and make sure they potty before startup!!!
They will get bored and quite frankly you don’t want them looking outside the whole time. Easier to get sick and bored that way. They will play their games on longer trips.
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They see the plane as an asset. Almost to a fault. They see dads dream of a 310 a necessity.
 
Fly Young Eagles so you can practice with other people’s’ kids and get comfortable.
 
Some great advice here. I for sure triple check everything much more with my kids on board than I would going solo. Had my wife tag along for my 7yo first flight so I would have someone to help with her if necessary in flight. She ended up loving it more than my wife.
 
I fly with my wife and I've been flying with our son since he was 2mo old, he is now 18mo.

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As far as concern for the child's safety goes I'll turn the question around. Are you going to fly any less safe when you're solo? Now as an adult, if your dad flew a plane but wouldn't take you with him just because of the slim chance of an accident how would you feel about that today? Not to go off on a tangent but I think sometimes we take child safety to extremes in our society. Of course we want to protect our kids but I also think depriving them of great experiences in their formative years because we're afraid of the off chance of something happening isn't fair to the child. /rant

Now, onto more practical matters...

My kid is 18mo, he can't self manage. Mom is his flight attendant right now and has total responsibility for him once the doors are closed. His mom and I have been flying together for a while and she knows when not to distract me and not to pressure me to fly in situations that aren't safe even when that means not getting home and spending the night somewhere we'd rather not be.

Down the line as soon as my son has the self discipline to sit still and not touch anything unless I tell him to I'll take him up solo. That may be a while, but that's my criteria. You know your kid, most kids goof around but when you stress something is dangerous/important/etc do they listen? I've found most do most of the time but some may not... if you're confident your kid will I wouldn't hesitate. Give them some fond childhood memories.
 
Thanks, guys. Honestly, my son is a bit nervous about flying with Mommy, which I think is a little odd since he's been flying commercially his entire life. And I admit I wonder how he'll react in a small plane. Grab the controls? Scream? Try to open the door? I have no idea, you know?

And it's true, it's been a few decades since I've had any passenger, but I don't know any adults to practice on. Sounds like it's just something I'll have to get over.
 
How old is your son?
 
At five, mine was fidgety and needed a tablet to keep him occupied. I sometimes needed to unplug his mic to prevent intercom karaoke.

Six and up has been way easier, and we never run out of stuff to talk about.
 
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