The Otto Aviation Celera 500L

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by AggieMike88, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yeah but it wasn’t because of the design concept of connecting two turbines to one transmission. It’s a proven design in other applications, they just chose the wrong gearbox. For all we know, just one engine powering that particular gearbox would’ve created “excessive wear.”

    They really closed up shop because they ran out of cash. Even if the testing phase went flawless, I doubt they would’ve survived. Whole thing reminds me of the Delorean. Get a bunch of cash from the British Govt, set up a manufacturing facility in Northern Ireland, then run out of cash to lack of investors. Both were ahead of the times in design and manufacturing and both had their own teething problems because of it.
     
  2. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Thanks, and so did the Bristol Brabazon and many others.. I was just going off what I remember reading about the Learfan in an aviation book I had.. forget the name but it was a cool paperback, featured many "different" or otherwise unusual types of planes
     
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  3. Justin Martin

    Justin Martin Filing Flight Plan

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    With 5.26lbs/ft² wingloading, why would you question 160hp?? A Cessna 152 has twice the wingloading, yet nearly the same power to weight.

     
  4. 3393RP

    3393RP En-Route

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    The 16' diameter propellers are what struck me as odd, not the engines' HP rating.
     
  5. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    ...while we're all watching the saga of Peter and the Raptor here's an update on this other unusual plane..

    **it has flown, 31 times
    **they now have a legit and very serious website: https://www.ottoaviation.com/

    here is it, flying!
     
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  6. 1RTK1

    1RTK1 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Bet that’s not going to be cheap
     
  7. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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  8. Piperonca

    Piperonca Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    I'm gobsmacked that it got off the ground. I know why it's shaped that way -- it's a dirigible full of helium. That helps a lot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  9. Spinka

    Spinka Filing Flight Plan

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    If you mean the Eviation Alice, it's an Israeli company :)
     
  10. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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    OOOPs. My bad.
    I'm curious. Anyone know the percentage of pilots who have tailwheel endorsements?
    How many of those will actually be able to fly the Eviation Alice?

    I guess it could always be a "buy it, we will teach you to fly it."
    Anyone ground loop the Alice yet?
     
  11. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I hope they're successful and make lots. More airframes are always a good thing in the Book of Steingar.
     
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  12. kyleb

    kyleb Final Approach

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    I thought they were counting on automation and differential thrust.
     
  13. WDD

    WDD Line Up and Wait

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    A headwind the Otto plane will face that I'm not sure he's even considering is the overall appeal.

    1) It's for the corporate market
    2) High level execs who fly in corporate planes have very large egos
    3) They see corp jets as bragging rights, a way to preen in front of others, etc.
    4) They don't really care about fuel efficiency, or sad to say even really care about costs
    5) Climbing into what charitably looks like a flying egg is not going to stroke their egos

    In this market, form is over functionality.
     
  14. cmsuav8r

    cmsuav8r Filing Flight Plan

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    To me, the most compelling business case would be the regional cargo mission. That depends on what kind of useful load it ends up having though.
     
  15. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    True. But I can also see this appealing to some new 'woke' startup

    They're alleging six passengers so it could have some use as an air taxi
     
  16. Seanaldinho

    Seanaldinho Pattern Altitude

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    First, that's a pretty broad brush to paint with.

    Second, I think a good coat of paint solves most of those issues and if they meet their stated performance goals on speed that would go a long way.

    Also, the interior is quoted to be more spacious than similar sized aircraft - and that definitely matters if you're in this market.

    Personally, I think it's exotic looking - spaceshippy and B-29y.
     
  17. WDD

    WDD Line Up and Wait

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    You could be right - it might be appealing visually because it's so different. And maybe a snappy designer could paint it up nicely.

    My gut say's no - but we shall see.
     
  18. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I would argue that was all true maybe 10 years ago, or perhaps even 5 years ago. But we're starting to see a significant shift to cleaner and more efficient operations in pretty much every industry, and with public image being so important these days, being able to state "this aircraft is so efficient it's like removing X number of Competitor A's business jets from the sky" would be huge.
     
  19. iamtheari

    iamtheari Pattern Altitude

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    The wokeness of it all is the key. The 4500 nautical mile range, 450 mph speed, 22:1 glide ratio, ability to operate from 3,300-foot runways, and 6’2” stand-up cabin are* impressive and all.

    But the real reason this airplane will sell like hot cakes is because it produces 80% lower emissions than a corporate jet and 40% lower than “the most efficient commercial aircraft on a per-passenger basis.” When celebrities show up at climate conferences to tell people to stop driving cars if they’re too poor to buy a Tesla, they can all but eliminate criticism of their hypocrisy by using a plane that is better for the environment than flying coach.

    * Would be, if they are true and also they can avoid mid-air collisions with all the flying pigs.
     
  20. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Pre-takeoff checklist

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  21. WDD

    WDD Line Up and Wait

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    Yeah. Maybe. Given celebrities fly their Corp jets bs flying commercial, drive their hummers, etc. Or have a 30000 sq foot house

    Or execs who have built into their contracts personal use of Corp jets

    they’re not known for ever leading by example

    But let’s see
     
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  22. GaryM

    GaryM Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I think if you look at the Venn diagram of people who buy/fly corporate jets, and people who use 'woke', the intersection is fairly small.
     
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  23. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    The silent ones lead more by example, Keanu Reeves, etc., they're not all hypocrites. I think he's given most of his money away and lives quite modestly. It was stated somewhere that some of these celebrities pay sufficient carbon offsets to neutralize their otherwise lavish lifestyles. I had a friend once also "justify" their actions by claiming that with the big audience they have if they're able to influence their fanbase to reduce their footprint by even 10% that makes up for their larger carbon footprints

    In somewhat objective terms, for security reasons, I can also understand why someone like Paris Hilton, JLo, etc., would opt to fly privately. There are likely some security concerns and other unwanted publicity that traveling by regular air travel would cause

    **however, I generally agree, the point is not lost on me.. if you can't lead by example then don't preach it either. Just be a good person and live and let live.


    If this were my company that's exactly what I'd be pushing, the whole "green" aspect of it.. and like Cirrus does with their jazzy color schemes, offer up some pastel blues and greens for the color schemes with names like "Clean Oceans Blue" and "Rebuild the Forest Green" - hell, send some of the proceeds to climate initiatives and now you're appealing to just about all aspects of Maslow's hierarchy. Otherwise I agree with the earlier point that this plane will never be the plane of choice when someone with a lot of money is looking at TBM, King Air, PC12, Mustang, etc.
     
  24. kyleb

    kyleb Final Approach

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    IMO, the bigger commercial headwind for the design is the drop in reliability between turbine and piston engines. Clients value reliability and safety and a diesel will be a step backwards in that front.
     
  25. WDD

    WDD Line Up and Wait

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    Not having a turbine is a puzzle
     
  26. kyleb

    kyleb Final Approach

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    A diesel is much more efficient than a turbine. I think that’s the rationale behind their choice.
     
  27. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Administrator Management Council Member

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    Just saw that date on your post and had to LOL.
     
  28. deyoung

    deyoung Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I think the Otto looks cool actually; it'll be interesting to see what the price tag eventually looks like. I can imagine them getting close to their projected performance numbers if they really did get the drag down as low as they seem to be claiming. And a 22:1 glide would definitely be nice, and a nice bonus if you're worried about reliability -- that's a glide range of about 75 miles from 18,000 ft (AGL); you're pretty likely to be able to find an airport somewhere within that in most areas.
     
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  29. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I like the looks of it. I hope they actually make it. I have a diesel pickup and tractor, so having a diesel plane would fit right in. Plus V-12 engines just sound cool...
     
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  30. MountainDude

    MountainDude Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Their project operating costs are $330/hr. Can any turbine plane get close to that?
     
  31. WDD

    WDD Line Up and Wait

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    Not sure. I do know jets replaced pistons - in addition to other reasons - because of economics of operation. Lower maintenance costs, longer time between overhaul, etc
     
  32. Rein Hart

    Rein Hart Pre-Flight

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    No passenger windows? Great progress with actual flight testing.
     
  33. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

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    The production version has windows.

    Whatever the projected purchase price is now, I predict it will follow the same trajectory as the Icon A5.

    In any event, I hope they are successful In bringing it to what I see as a very limited market.

    And that they have a lot of spare wheels for the Ventral fin:D

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
  34. Cervieres

    Cervieres Pre-Flight

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    Dead on. At my home airport, watching a G650, Global Challenger, or Falcon 7x pick up 3 people to fly a <1000nm leg is a daily occurrence. Corporate aviation is all about showing off.
     
  35. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I was sitting in Flagstaff one day when a 737 BBJ rolled in. 5 folks got out, including the flight crew and FA.

    I sat there wishing I made as much money in one year that it cost for that one trip....
     
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  36. lbfd101

    lbfd101 Pre-Flight

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    One of the line guys at my home airport told the story of the Falcon 900 which regularly comes in during the summer to drop off a family, then back the next weekend to pick them up. One Sunday when they were preparing to take off on the pickup flight the pilot asked the line guy how late he was working as he was coming back later that evening. One of the women in the family wasn't ready to leave yet so they were taking the rest of the family home then returning later for her.

    Even better was the week the family was dropped off on Sunday, then the line guy heard the plane calling inbound on Tuesday. When the plane stopped at the fuel pumps he asked the pilot if the family was leaving early, the pilot said not quite. Then the copilot walked down the air stair carrying a cat in a carrier, the kids were missing the cat so it was flown to them.
     
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  37. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    What's the problem with that? That cat was very important to the kids and I.
     
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  38. Jeff767

    Jeff767 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Cats are never important!
     

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  39. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    Nonsense. A family’s got to eat.
     
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  40. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    Oh, can't get along without [indelicate slang name for cats]. :)

    Ron Wanttaja
     
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