The Otto Aviation Celera 500L

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by AggieMike88, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    17,428
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...volutionary-celera-500l-aircraft-may-fly-soon

    More than two years after The War Zone was first to report on a mysterious bullet-shaped aircraft appearing at the Southern California Logistics Airport near Victorville, a refined version of the plane has conducted taxi tests and looks to be getting close to its first flight. Even though much about its design and purpose remain unclear, we do know now that the aircraft, which is called the Otto Aviation Celera 500L, is definitely focused on potentially game-changing high-efficiency flight that has the potential to disrupt the aerospace marketplace.
    The author also comments on the patent claims...

    The patent goes on to describe a notional aircraft that would cruise between 460 and 510 miles per hour at an altitude of up to 65,000 feet, yielding a fuel efficiency rate of between 30 and 42 miles per gallon. To put this in perspective, the Pilatus PC-12, a popular light, single-engine turboprop aircraft has a service ceiling of 30,000 feet, a cruising speed just under 330 miles per hour, and still burns, on average, 66 gallons of jet fuel per hour, for a fuel economy of roughly five miles to the gallon. Even going to a Learjet 70, which has similar speed performance to what's stated in the Celera patent documents, but still nowhere near as high a ceiling, we are talking about roughly three miles per gallon of gas at cruise. So, Otto Aviation is talking about performance that is at least 10 times more efficient than existing light business jets with similar cruise capabilities.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    zaitcev likes this.
  2. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    11,291
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    500 hp in an airframe that big. My prediction is 230 kts cruise at FL250...and they’re gonna scrape the crap out of that bottom stinger.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    Skyrys62 likes this.
  3. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,830
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GeorgeC
    Who flies first, Celera or Raptor?
     
    Stephen Poole likes this.
  4. Piperonca

    Piperonca Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    236
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Piperonca
    With 130 kts stall speed.
     
    Eric Stoltz and Velocity173 like this.
  5. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    741
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Don
    Celera.
     
  6. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    11,291
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    I don’t know, I think the Raptor might fly with the next couple weeks. I believe they said their test pilot was to show up this weekend.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    david.h and donjohnston like this.
  7. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,830
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GeorgeC
    Well, at least there will be Otto Pilot jokes.
     
  8. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,662
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg
    Piaggio Avanti.
     
    zaitcev likes this.
  9. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    741
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Don
    There are just too many unproven components on that plane. The engine being the biggest, IMHO. I don't know enough about that redrive system, but a single belt driving the prop seems... something. And not a good something. If he had gone with a Continental or Lycoming, I think they would already be flying.
     
  10. MountainDude

    MountainDude Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    157
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MountainDude
    A propeller at 65,000 ft?
     
  11. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,171
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    That anybody actually believes this is a testament to the decline in our public education system.

    (btw, I believe I have a 100 mpg carburetor somewhere in the basement. Fits any pre-'73 Oldsmobile or Buick, as I recall. It's a real collector's item because the oil companies apparently bought up all the rest of them. ;) )
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    N747JB, Eric Stoltz and Stephen Poole like this.
  12. Datadriver

    Datadriver Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    673
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Datadriver
    The test pilot looked at the Raptor this weekend and took a pass - Peter posted a long video on YouTube with the details yesterday.
     
  13. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    11,291
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    Yep. Just got done watching it. Bit of a setback. Three main issues. 1) possibly some aero elasticity with the winglets/ tip sails being so long. 2) possible pitch control issues with the Fowler elevator. 3) single ECU.

     
  14. Chris Scherry

    Chris Scherry Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    cscherry
    I'm not sure how you get that goofy looking egg off the ground with one propeller on the backside
     
  15. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    26,255
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    And if me mum had wheels she'd be a wagon.
     
    Stephen Poole likes this.
  16. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,482
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    3393RP
    An overinflated Avanti!
     
    Zeldman likes this.
  17. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    2,792
    Location:
    Roswell, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FormerHangie
    I have to think that the propeller on that one will be seeing a terribly disturbed airflow.
     
  18. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    741
    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Don
    I think you meant "bike". :D
     
    Kenny Phillips likes this.
  19. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,507
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    This thing reminds me of the Lear Fan... a cool bird but ultimately was a failure due to fuselage crack pressurization issues and the FAA not liking the reliability concerns of the two turboprops feeding via gearbox into one drivetrain

    upload_2019-6-11_16-14-54.png
     
  20. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,587
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    The stinger needs a wheel grafted on to it.
     
    Velocity173 likes this.
  21. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,587
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    All minor issues, and easily solved with hope and wishful thinking.
     
  22. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,587
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    All turbofan jets are essentially propeller driven, and routinely fly in the fifties.
     
  23. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,587
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    The Avanti is fast, reliable, beautiful, and available. That last one is kind of important.
     
  24. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,830
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GeorgeC
  25. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,507
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    "Even assuming huge advances in battery technology, with batteries that are 30 times more efficient and "energy-dense" than they are today, it would only be possible to fly an A320 airliner for a fifth of its range with just half of its payload, says Airbus's chief technology officer Grazia Vittadini."
    Yup..

    Why you will only ever see this as a niche product for local routes.. a novelty really

    How much down time does Cape Air plan to have between flights?

    I also wonder what kind of considerations have been made for the source of the electric energy charging the planes .. most of our energy in the United States come from gas, oil, and coal.. so no free lunch. And while it may be cheaper now, I can imagine that if all our planes start being charged up from the grid we will see differences in pricing for the that

    No free lunch!

    Cool to see the tech though
     
    N747JB and Bobanna like this.
  26. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,507
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
  27. Piperonca

    Piperonca Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    236
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Piperonca
  28. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,482
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    3393RP

    One of the three Lear Fan test articles is hanging from the overhead structure at the Frontiers of Flight museum, which is located near the threshold of 31R at KDAL. When Bill Lear passed away before the prototypes flew, the program was thrown into uncertainty from which it never recovered.


    [​IMG]

    Please indulge me in my journey into thread drift.

    The FoF collection has expanded greatly over the years, and one of my favorites is the Chance Vought V-173 "Flying Pancake". It's been beautifully restored, and while looking it over, one realizes that test pilots employed to fly designs cooked up during WWII weren't paid enough.

    The aircraft weighs 2,248 lbs and is powered by two Continental A-80 flat fours that produce 80 HP each. One wonders how those tiny engines were able to turn the huge 16' diameter propellers. I suspect every takeoff roll made during its brief career was quite exciting.

    The workmanship is flawless. The handcrafted wooden propellers are works of art. Could these monsters even be duplicated today? So many aeronautical construction skills have been lost forever.

    [​IMG]

    The spacecraft located next to the V-173 is the Apollo 7 command module, the first Block II module to fly, the first manned Apollo flight, and the first flight after the tragic January 27, 1967 fire on pad 34B which claimed the lives of astronauts Gus Grissom, Ed White, and Roger Chaffee. The mission was accomplished by Walter Cunningham, Walter Schirra, and Donn Eisele in this spacecraft between October 11 and 22, 1968.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  29. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    390
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Matt R
    As a woodworker, I could recreate those propellers given time and the standard cost of aviation parts ($10,000 per blade). Those were certainly hand shaped and finished. Just a matter of taking it slowly and working a larger blank down to correct shape.
    Having made spars for the Tiger Moth, the originals were not always perfectly made, so it is possible to make new ones “better than new”. A matter of going from a factory product to a custom product.
     
  30. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    26,255
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    Does anyone know why this War Zone site has such a hard on for this aircraft?
     
  31. flightwriter

    flightwriter Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    464
    Location:
    Corrales, NM
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rob Finfrock
    Just a WAG, but I get the impression that Rogoway (whose writing I enjoy) has succumbed to the Mojave mystique and the lure of being the first to break a "revolutionary" aviation story that no other industry publication (that I've seen) is paying much heed.

    Odds are this experience will show him why that is.
     
  32. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,587
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    Yep. Heck, every biz jet flying in FL500+ has a propello\er. We call it a 'fan', but that's what generates most of the go power.
     
  33. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,950
    Location:
    Seattle
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ron Wanttaja
    During my ~40 year career in the aerospace biz, I only worked on two aircraft projects, both for a short time.

    The first was a high-altitude small aircraft. We were actually subcontracting the airplane to Schweizer, and the design had a lot of glider heritage in it. Had twin booms, kinda like a svelte low-wing C-119.

    One version was manned, using a PT-6 and intended to fly at 45,000 feet.

    The other was a UAV intended to fly at 65,000 feet...with a Continental O-200. Actually it was a Continental IOL-200, which, I believe, is what the Voyager around-the-world airplane used. I was told that the PT-6 had cooling issues that high up, and that it was thought the liquid-cooled engine would handle it better.
    [​IMG]
    Ron Wanttaja
     
  34. asicer

    asicer En-Route

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,456
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    asicer
    What was sea level HP and what was it in cruise?
     
  35. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,950
    Location:
    Seattle
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ron Wanttaja
    Don't know...just remember it was an IOL-200, same engine that was used on Voyager. Don't remember a lot of the details, and Schweizer was doing the aircraft design work.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  36. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    678
    Location:
    Tombstone
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc Holliday
    You do know that twin engine helicopters have two turbines feeding via a gearbox into one drivetrain.....and they're FAA certified.
     
    skier, zaitcev, nauga and 1 other person like this.
  37. nauga

    nauga Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Messages:
    2,133
    Location:
    Rockwood Storage Facility
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mantis Toboggan, MD
    I suspect it wasn't so much *any* 2-to-1 gear/drivetrain as it was that specific implementation. It's dim memory and as such will remain unspoken, but I vaguely recall some of the details of the issues which lead me to understand it was not 'fear of the unknown' that prevented cert.

    Nauga
    and the devil in the details
     
  38. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,158
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pete Zaitcev
  39. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,587
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    Soloy also make little 2:1 units for Cessna Caravan (Dual-Pac).
     
    Doc Holliday likes this.
  40. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,507
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    I'm
    I'm not the FAA and that's the reason Lear gave for why it didn't work out.