The machines are coming for our jobs

[Pi1otguy]

At what point will it be ok for us as consumers to embrace automation?

Continuing the trend, more and more stores have self checkout, enabling 1 worker to watch watch 4-8 stations. At first we were to avoid them and wait in the longer, slower manned lines. But it's that still the case?

How about fast food? 1 place I went had a voice recognition system talk to me instead of the crew. And why did it speak much clearer than the humans ever did? What about places with kiosks? Or with automated fries and grill stations?

Heck, I can't remember the last time I've actually called for a briefing.

 

[steingar]

If a machine can do a man's job the machine should do a man's job. People should do things machines can't.

 

[EdFred]

If a machine can do a man's job the machine should do a man's job. People should do things machines can't.

The problem with automating "everything" is there's going to be a massive unemployment issue at some point. There's only so many jobs to be had in certain industries.

 

[Dana]

Issac Asimov once said that any job that can be done as well by a machine is beneath human dignity.

My day job is designing automatic production machinery. Every time I get poor service at a restaurant, I daydream about designing robot waiters. Over the past 30 years it's gone from fantasy to easily possible. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

But then there's Larry Niven's short story "Intent to Deceive" about what happens when two diners get trapped in an an automatic restaurant that malfunctions...

 

[schmookeeg]

The problem with automating "everything" is there's going to be a massive unemployment issue at some point. There's only so many jobs to be had in certain industries.

This is why there is a soylent-green machine.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

The problem with automating "everything" is there's going to be a massive unemployment issue at some point. There's only so many jobs to be had in certain industries.

Then we expand other existing industries and invent new ones. We used to plow fields by hand and oxen. Disruption is a natural feature of progress.

 

[EdFred]

Issac Asimov once said that any job that can be done as well by a machine is beneath human dignity.

My day job is designing automatic production machinery. Every time I get poor service at a restaurant, I daydream about designing robot waiters. Over the past 30 years it's gone from fantasy to easily possible. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

But then there's Larry Niven's short story "Intent to Deceive" about what happens when two diners get trapped in an an automatic restaurant that malfunctions...

One restaurant in town has a robot "bus boy". It goes around to empty tables and the servers will load into the tray, and it will take the dishes to the back.

 

[Bob Noel]

At what point will it be ok for us as consumers to embrace automation?

Continuing the trend, more and more stores have self checkout, enabling 1 worker to watch watch 4-8 stations. At first we were to avoid them and wait in the longer, slower manned lines. But it's that still the case?

How about fast food? 1 place I went had a voice recognition system talk to me instead of the crew. And why did it speak much clearer than the humans ever did? What about places with kiosks? Or with automated fries and grill stations?

Heck, I can't remember the last time I've actually called for a briefing.

generally, my experience is that the self checkout takes longer than with a real person. At least for the 3 chains that I use. Maybe it's because I have to scan a product and place it on the shelf, then scan the next one and place it on the shelf. And none of the chains seem to be able to handle customer provided bags or placing things in a bag on the shelf.

Immediately after I'm done scanning the machine is *****ing about taking my receipt and remove all items.

 

[EdFred]

Then we expand other existing industries and invent new ones. We used to plow fields by hand and oxen. Disruption is a natural feature of progress.

First let's solve the "automated" phone systems that never ****ing work. They have like 3 options, none of which I need, and it just gives a ******** "I didn't understand your request" response and kicks me back to the main menu. Does pressing 0 work? **** no. Does # work? Nope. * ? nuh-uh. Combination of any of them? Nope. Nothing will put me in a foul mood quicker than calling somewhere and not getting a person within 10 seconds.

 

[schmookeeg]

generally, my experience is that the self checkout takes longer than with a real person. At least for the 3 chains that I use. Maybe it's because I have to scan a product and place it on the shelf, then scan the next one and place it on the shelf. And none of the chains seem to be able to handle customer provided bags or placing things in a bag on the shelf.

Immediately after I'm done scanning the machine is *****ing about taking my receipt and remove all items.

Yep. I'm usually the guy behind you in the self-check queue, tapping my foot while you and three other bluehairs try to figure out how to enter the code for organic bananas, then squint and call for help because it rang up as chex mix and it didn't even register your expired coupon.

 

[Bob Noel]

I want to draw people's attention to the scene in iRobot where Det Spooner has an idea for a new commercial...


look, this is not what I do, but...I got an idea for one of your commercials.

You can see a carpenter making a beautiful chair and one of your robots comes in and makes a better chair...
twice as fast. And then you superimpose on the screen.

USR... <censored> on the little guy.


That would be the fade out.

 

[JOhnH]

If a machine can do a man's job the machine should do a man's job. People should do things machines can't.

Do you mean doing things like robbing grocery and liquor stores because they can't get a job?
But I do believe that computer learning has a place. I had several professors that could have easily been replaced by a computer, if computers were available at the time.

 

[Bob Noel]

Yep. I'm usually the guy behind you in the self-check queue, tapping my foot while you and three other bluehairs try to figure out how to enter the code for organic bananas, then squint and call for help because it rang up as chex mix and it didn't even register your expired coupon.

I bet I can enter the codes as fast or faster than you can (especially since I have the applicable codes memorized). But, if you think I'm slowing you down...

It's hard to tell since there is never anyone behind me...

 

[Jeff Oslick]

First let's solve the "automated" phone systems that never ****ing work. They have like 3 options, none of which I need, and it just gives a ******** "I didn't understand your request" response and kicks me back to the main menu. Does pressing 0 work? **** no. Does # work? Nope. * ? nuh-uh. Combination of any of them? Nope. Nothing will put me in a foul mood quicker than calling somewhere and not getting a person within 10 seconds.

Has it ever occurred to you that these systems don't work because they are designed not to work? The company doesn't want to hear you complain because that might end of up costing them money. Will they lose a few customers out of frustration? Sure, but they are saving money by getting customers to give up on being treated fairly, and most customers will be too lazy or be too trapped in a long term contract to switch to a competitor (if a competitor even exists).

This isn't a technology problem, this is a corporate management feature.

 

[Pi1otguy]

Issac Asimov once said that any job that can be done as well by a machine is beneath human dignity.

That's a lot of jobs. Even white collar jobs are in danger.

My day job is designing automatic production machinery. Every time I get poor service at a restaurant, I daydream about designing robot waiters. Over the past 30 years it's gone from fantasy to easily possible. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

With a few tweaks to how the "ingredients" are packaged and slight dinning room changes, it's probably cost effective and doable with current tech.

 

[TCABM]

….This isn't a technology problem, this is a corporate management feature.

Companies want 85% or more calls to an IVR system to be resolved within the system. Cuts down on call center operations which can he insanely expensive with a 200% annual turnover rate not being unusual, even at top tier contact centers.

 

[Pi1otguy]

generally, my experience is that the self checkout takes longer than with a real person.

But that's offset by quicker lines
I feel most of the slowness is intentional to allow the scales in the bagging area time to register each item. Trying to prevent The banana trick

 

[kyleb]

First let's solve the "automated" phone systems that never ****ing work. They have like 3 options, none of which I need, and it just gives a ******** "I didn't understand your request" response and kicks me back to the main menu. Does pressing 0 work? **** no. Does # work? Nope. * ? nuh-uh. Combination of any of them? Nope. Nothing will put me in a foul mood quicker than calling somewhere and not getting a person within 10 seconds.

Automated phone systems are a way to make you reconsider your question/request and solve the problem yourself. Don't be fooled.

 

[Pi1otguy]

Automated phone systems are a way to make you reconsider your question/request and solve the problem yourself. Don't be fooled.

It hides a truth. Most consumer items are too cheap to service/troubleshoot.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The problem with automating "everything" is there's going to be a massive unemployment issue at some point. There's only so many jobs to be had in certain industries.

No good answers to that one. Automation is coming whether we like it or not. I've no suggestions that don't smack very hard of some sort of socialism that borders on communism.

 

[JOhnH]

No good answers to that one. Automation is coming whether we like it or not. I've no suggestions that don't smack very hard of some sort of socialism that borders on communism.

Automation is coming, and would probably come eventually anyway. But a lot of what we are seeing now is the direct result of government trying to mandate a living wage via minimum wage legislation. It is just another manifestation of unintended consequences, even if 100% predictable. Rather than raising the standard of living for the lower income people, they are putting lower income into the NO income category.

 

[Everskyward]

I almost always use the automated checkout when given a choice. Surprised at the number of times I go to the head of the line after asking if anyone else is using it. Not sure if the others don't know how to use it, or if they don't want checkers to be replaced by automation. Note that this is a very labor-supportive city, but also a tech oriented one.

 

[kyleb]

Automation has been coming for centuries.

Just ask the Luddites.

 

[Albany Tom]

I like automation where the automation serves my interests, not the company I'm buying things from.

There's a reason that IVR is used as a replacement for customer service, and for warranty claims. It's because those are loss centers for businesses. Those are robots wasting your time, until you give up trying to get whatever company it is to do what they're supposed to have already done. So those? I'd love to see an ability for the consumers to charge back the time they spent on the phone, at a bit above average income rate x2. Return a product? I get paid $3 a minute until my problem is resolved. That will never happen, so maybe the best we can do is a surcharge for automated phone lines at the same rate that goes to the tax people. Double the rate every 6 months until no one sells the tech anymore.

Self-checkout? I'm already walking through whatever store it is, because it's something that isn't convenient for me to buy online or from a non-chain retailer. So I get to do their job of checkout, too? Then I have to walk by the guy yelling wanting to check my receipt? No.

The automation I want is for random people to hire robot lawyers to sue companies with self-checkout, IVR, and other consumer time wasters. They can be settled in robot small claims court.

Un-ranting, there is some automation that works great. The post office has been using it for decades. Sure, every once in a while it eats someone's letter, but mostly it works great.

Robots should be working for people, not against people. The robots making sales calls should disable themselves, rather than comply, following along the rules Asimov put together about 80 years ago.

 

[TCABM]

I almost always use the automated checkout when given a choice.

Automated or self serve? I refuse self service checkout on principle. If they aren’t going to pay me to do the job of the checker, and they aren’t going to provide a discount for using their quasi vending machine service, I’m not going to allow them the extra margin.

 

[Everskyward]

Automated or self serve? I refuse self service checkout on principle. If they aren’t going to pay me to do the job of the checker, and they aren’t going to provide a discount for using their quasi vending machine service, I’m not going to allow them the extra margin.

Self-serve. I've never used a fully automated check-out. Can't say your idea has ever entered my mind. I thought it was the area's pro-labor stance that prevented some from using the self-serve, even though they appear young and educated enough to figure it out. Even I figured it out and I am definitely not young.

 

[EdFred]

Automated phone systems are a way to make you reconsider your question/request and solve the problem yourself. Don't be fooled.

The last one was with the phone company who TOLD ME TO CALL, but the reason for the call was not in their phone tree.

If I'm calling I've already done everything the automated system wants me to do.

 

[Pinecone]

The problem with automating "everything" is there's going to be a massive unemployment issue at some point. There's only so many jobs to be had in certain industries.

Nope. The jobs just shift. LOTS of jobs programming and repairing the machines.

 

[Bill]

Nope. The jobs just shift. LOTS of jobs programming and repairing the machines.

If that person is willing to go to school to learn these trades. Otherwise, they’ll be collecting unemployment and other subsistence.

 

[DaleB]

Nope. The jobs just shift. LOTS of jobs programming and repairing the machines.

Yep. So tens of thousands of workers who in earlier times would have only been able to rise to the level of unskilled general labor are now writing code for web sites and automated phone systems. And it shows.

 

[lsaway]

The problem with automating "everything" is there's going to be a massive unemployment issue at some point. There's only so many jobs to be had in certain industries.

Problem Solved. Stop buying everything from China and start making the machines in our own country. We will all be working for the machines.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I almost always use the automated checkout when given a choice. Surprised at the number of times I go to the head of the line after asking if anyone else is using it. Not sure if the others don't know how to use it, or if they don't want checkers to be replaced by automation. Note that this is a very labor-supportive city, but also a tech oriented one.

Yup. If I have a dozen items or less, I can check out faster on my own than some lackey behind the counter can. No small talk, no waiting on them to hit a button or try and offer me some service at the end. Just scan, pay, and go. It's worth doing it myself to reduce the amount of time I'm in the store. If I have a shopping cart full of stuff, I make the clerk do the work.

 

[cowman]

In the sci-fi novel I've been working on, one of the characters states that she works in "food service". What this actually means is she's an on-call technician who repairs equipment in the automated restaurants when it breaks down. That's my idealistic take on where it might be headed. Our society is really going to have to change it's relationship with work eventually. What that should look like is going to lead right into a lot of arguments about -isms. I suspect it's going to be something different from anything we've ever seen before but we'll have to see where technology gets us and how society reacts to it.

 

[JOhnH]

Nope. The jobs just shift. LOTS of jobs programming and repairing the machines.

There are lot of people that just aren't mentally able to do those jobs. It would be better to give those people repetitive, manual labor type jobs rather than welfare and unemployment checks. Then there are the high school kids that want/need an entry level job. The prime reason automation is taking over those jobs is the emphasis on a minimum wage that theoretically allows a 16 yr old kid to be able to support a family of four with a 40 hour/week job flipping burgers. It ain't gonna happen.

 

[guest user]

Considering the amount of "help wanted" signs I see in our area, and others when I travel, I think the time is ripe for automation. In the recent past (pre covid) you would probably have had a huge uproar about people losing jobs over this. Now, you'd probably hear cheers over a business being able to provide timely service again. Outside of the tech world itself, tell me a market that is saying "We're operating at capacity, no need for more people".

Do we have an unemployment issue in this country? The numbers would seem to indicate so. However, since the problem isn't a lack of job opportunities, then filling those jobs with automation would not affect this situation as the humans didn't want the jobs in the first place.


Edit: I just saw JOhnH's post above mine, and I agree that these jobs are perfect for a certain segment of our population. However, I would still say there are not enough people willing to take the job openings, so again, bring in some automation. I doubt we would ever be able to automate all of the jobs they would qualify for.

 

[JOhnH]

Edit: I just saw JOhnH's post above mine, and I agree that these jobs are perfect for a certain segment of our population. However, I would still say there are not enough people willing to take the job openings, so again, bring in some automation. I doubt we would ever be able to automate all of the jobs they would qualify for.

I'll admit that I often tend to have strong opinions on certain topics, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why employers are having such a hard time hiring employees? Do people really NOT want to work? Then how do they support themselves? How do they eat? Are they choosing homelessness over working?
I know at least 5 people that desperately want a job but can't find one. They are all over 50 and lost good jobs during Covid lockdowns and now they can't find anything. I've given my younger (57yrs) brother thousands over the past two years. He lives with his son who has a blue collar job that doesn't pay much.

I can't explain the gap in help-wanted signs and people that can't find work.

 

[SebIp]

Skills/age vs what’s on offer.

It’s not news that over some age it gets hard to go back to what you were doing when you lose a job. Not impossible but harder. Take software development which I am very familiar with, if you are young and applying for entry level positions the requirements aren’t high. You likely don’t even need specific skill set in what the employer does. Go to someone who’s applying for a senior role and suddenly it’s a checklist of experience you need to have to get past the filters. I personally don’t want to hire like that for experienced developers but I know my current organization insists on it. As such you already have this big divide between those who wants a job and what’s on offer.

I can see similar situation being possible for other industries.

 

[steingar]

The Industrial Revolution was brought on in part by the decimation of the labor pool by the Bubonic Plague. Now we have a different plague removing labor from the market for different reasons. Doesn't matter, folks are going to turn to robots and about time. Still plenty of things for people to do.

 

[SkyChaser]

I'll admit that I often tend to have strong opinions on certain topics, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why employers are having such a hard time hiring employees? Do people really NOT want to work? Then how do they support themselves? How do they eat? Are they choosing homelessness over working?
I know at least 5 people that desperately want a job but can't find one. They are all over 50 and lost good jobs during Covid lockdowns and now they can't find anything. I've given my younger (57yrs) brother thousands over the past two years. He lives with his son who has a blue collar job that doesn't pay much.

I can't explain the gap in help-wanted signs and people that can't find work.

Everything wants either a PhD and 25 years of experience in their exact field or they want you to work nights, weekends and holidays. On top of that, it's ridiculously hard to get a resume through their filtering system. Every single job that I have ever had was the result of walking into the company and asking for an application. I've applied to hundreds of jobs online and never got a single one, but have been hired for every job that I went to in person. Obviously, it's a single-person sample size and subject to errors, but it seems to me that the move to online screening of candidates has made it significantly harder to get hired.

I'm pretty sure there are some people who just don't want to work, and they mostly support themselves by applying for government assistance.

 

[Sam D]

The machines already came for our jobs. Look at a farm today vs 100 years ago. How about a seaport? A factory? Where are all those unemployed workers? I think we’ll be just fine.