The Cirrus factor

I've never even seen or heard of that YouTube guy until just now reading this thread.
 
Tantalum said:
the tail is on backwards anyway.. I never could take them seriously, and hockey pucks for landing gear??!! /S


Is it Niko's wings? That guy single handedly makes me not want to fly the Cirrus and makes us all look like idiots. He's the CNN / Tabloid equivalent of aviation. Can this guy get one flight done without some near death catastrophe happening? I get the whole clickbait thing.. but this guy's videos gives me hives

-EVERYTHING WANTS TO KILL YOU
-SMALL UNPRESSURIZED PLANE
-NOPE NOT LANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-FLAPS ICING
-EXTREME!!!!!!!!!

...ugh give me a break!

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Doh, I like Niko, his videos are entertaining most of the time. These guys need a hook to get people to watch.
 
PaulS said:
Cirrus privilege??? I was getting checked out in a 22 at our home airport, which has a tower. It was the final landing for me, we were behind a warrior with a student and instructor, no one else in the pattern. I turned base too soon, got on final and was gaining on him. I was about to ask for s turns when the controller said we were getting too close and told the Warrior to go around, lol. The Warrior instructor was not happy and said "That Cirrus needs to slow down!". I was a little shocked I didn't get the go around instruction, but landed. My instructor hunted the other guy down and apologized. I guess there is Cirrus privilege.
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Was the Warrior a full stop or were they a pattern rat?
 
PaulS said:
Doh, I like Niko, his videos are entertaining most of the time. These guys need a hook to get people to watch.
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My friend likes him too.. I've watched a few of his videos.. because flying is cool, and they're a Cirrus.. but the CAPS LOCKS thing in the video titles and the frequent near death experiences are a bit much to handle sometimes
 
Kenny Phillips said:
When I was learning, the students in the pattern always gave way to full stops (by controller instructions).
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Barring an emergency, I think it’s safer to give the priority to the aircraft that is further along in the landing process as they will be lower, slower, and likely to have more flaps out.
 
PaulS said:
Cirrus privilege??? I was getting checked out in a 22 at our home airport, which has a tower. It was the final landing for me, we were behind a warrior with a student and instructor, no one else in the pattern. I turned base too soon, got on final and was gaining on him. I was about to ask for s turns when the controller said we were getting too close and told the Warrior to go around, lol. The Warrior instructor was not happy and said "That Cirrus needs to slow down!". I was a little shocked I didn't get the go around instruction, but landed. My instructor hunted the other guy down and apologized. I guess there is Cirrus privilege.
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That’s hilarious. I hate when idiotic CFIs get all huffy at that stuff. It breeds a bad pilot in training. Plus, that dude needs to get over himself. He does pattern work for a living.

Follow the tower’s instructions and don’t be a-hole. Oh wait that’s only cirrus guys :rolleyes:
 
SkyDog58 said:
Barring an emergency, I think it’s safer to give the priority to the aircraft that is further along in the landing process as they will be lower, slower, and likely to have more flaps out.
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Maybe, maybe not. But a go around is a go around. It’s a teachable moment.

Unfortunately the CFI taught the wrong thing.
 
MetalCloud said:
Maybe, maybe not. But a go around is a go around. It’s a teachable moment.

Unfortunately the CFI taught the wrong thing.
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The CFI in the Cirrus? Yes he did.

He allowed his student to turn base too early in a plane that was faster and harder to slow down than the plane he was following. A pilot needs to have at least a basic understanding of his plane’s capabilities and performance in comparison to others in the pattern in order to avoid conflict. A CFI even more so. You can’t leave that thought process to ATC. You have to manage the situation.
 
SkyDog58 said:
The CFI in the Cirrus? Yes he did.

He allowed his student to turn base too early in a plane that was faster and harder to slow down than the plane he was following. A pilot needs to have at least a basic understanding of his plane’s capabilities and performance in comparison to others in the pattern in order to avoid conflict. A CFI even more so. You can’t leave that thought process to ATC. You have to manage the situation.
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Not disagreeing with you there.

But I was talking about the Warrior CFI. There’s no need for him to be a super pilot. Just effing go around like you’re told. Teach the Warrior student about go arounds and how they sometimes surprise you. And if you have an issue, call the tower after you land to talk through it. Don’t be a jackass on the radio.
 
SkyDog58 said:
The CFI in the Cirrus? Yes he did.

He allowed his student to turn base too early in a plane that was faster and harder to slow down than the plane he was following. A pilot needs to have at least a basic understanding of his plane’s capabilities and performance in comparison to others in the pattern in order to avoid conflict. A CFI even more so. You can’t leave that thought process to ATC. You have to manage the situation.
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I'm an instrument pilot, it was a new plane to me, hence checkout, by the time he could have reacted the turn would have been done. It wasn't a life or death situation. I like this instructor particularly because he doesn't rescue me at every turn, he let it play out. Some times making the mistake is worth 1,000 corrections before it happens.
 
I think the bad blood got started because Cirrus really centered their marketing around non pilots. "Look, it has a parachute". Moreover, the interiors look like car interiors. Diamond also makes fiberglass airplanes and they really don't show up of the flame wars.
 
steingar said:
I think the bad blood got started because Cirrus really centered their marketing around non pilots. "Look, it has a parachute". Moreover, the interiors look like car interiors. Diamond also makes fiberglass airplanes and they really don't show up of the flame wars.
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So instead of embracing a company trying to promote GA and bring interiors to a more modern fit and finish they get flamed?

Makes sense.
 
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MetalCloud said:
So instead of embracing a company trying to promote GA and bring interiors to a more modern fit and finish they get flamed?

Makes sense.
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Didn't say it was right or wrong, just illuminating the etiology of the whole thing, which is what I think the OP was asking.
 
steingar said:
Didn't say it was right or wrong, just illuminating the etiology of the whole thing, which is what I think the OP was asking.
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Oh I know. And those factors have a lot to do with the current / past attitude towards cirrus. I just think it’s lame to flame a company that actually managed to innovate in this stagnant industry and foster an adoption of GA. Rising tides lift all boats, but people forget that and tend to just be... people. Ugh.

I see the same thing in the music world. “Gibson is stupid”
“fender sucks”
“PRS is lame”

It’s just people being people. This forum is no different. Fortunately there’s an ignore feature to filter the chaff.
 
It was the initial marketing of Cirrus: "Chute first ask questions later." Their procedure for everything (actual emergency or not - I don't consider a number of things an emergency) early on was "pull the chute." Only in the past few years have they finally come around to actually training pilots to do other things before pulling the chute. So yeah, for their initial entry into the market they deserve all the the flaming they got. And they marketed to people with more money than brains. As Bonanza did way back when.
 
EdFred said:
It was the initial marketing of Cirrus: "Chute first ask questions later." Their emergency procedure for everything early on was "pull the chute." Only in the past few years have they finally come around to actually training pilots to do other things before pulling the chute. So yeah, for their initial entry into the market they deserve all the the flaming they got.
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Right, so instead of haters changing their tune, they just cling to the past and mock the company, the pilots, the community for what... to make themselves feel better? For likes on a forum? Again, makes sense.
 
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MetalCloud said:
Right, so instead of haters changing their tune, they just cling to the past and mock the company, the pilots, the community for what... to make themselves feel better? For likes on a forum? Again, makes sense.
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I don't hate. I just find it funny how overly defensive they get. Case in point...
 
EdFred said:
I don't hate. I just find it funny how overly defensive they get. Case in point...
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Omg. Seriously? Because I offer a counter point I'm labeled defensive?
 
MetalCloud said:
Omg. Seriously? Because I offer a counter point I'm labeled defensive?
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Incorrect labeling isn't a counterpoint. And this reaction just solidifies my opinion. No plane is perfect, but holy hell, if anything is said negative about a Cirrus the world is ending. I give other airplane owners grief about their planes - Cessnas always (177 and 210 notwithstanding) always have a strut in the picture, Grummans need a former SAC base to take off and land, Mooney pilots claim that their planes are so efficient that they will land with more fuel than they departed with, the list goes on. And they laugh about it. Say a Cirrus pilot drinks Zima, and holy crap, if PoA was a school you guys would be down at the principals office trying to have me get detention.
 
EdFred said:
Incorrect labeling isn't a counterpoint. And this reaction just solidifies my opinion. No plane is perfect, but holy hell, if anything is said negative about a Cirrus the world is ending. I give other airplane owners grief about their planes - Cessnas always (177 and 210 notwithstanding) always have a strut in the picture, Grummans need a former SAC base to take off and land, Mooney pilots claim that their planes are so efficient that they will land with more fuel than they departed with, the list goes on. And they laugh about it. Say a Cirrus pilot drinks Zima, and holy crap, if PoA was a school you guys would be down at the principals office trying to have me get detention.
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I didn't disagree with your point about their initial training. But then you went on to say it's gotten better. Which it has. So I'm asking why people don't embrace that or embrace what cirrus has done for GA? Instead it's the same tired stereotypes. I'm asking why people can't change their attitude towards a company that changed their initial issues and does a ton for GA, and I'm labeled "defensive"

I don't give a **** what people say about Cirrus or their opinions of the aircraft. I just take exception when people act like jackasses (not referring to you specifically. Just forum talk in general).
 
There are a lot of idiots out there that block fuel pumps, taxiways, runways, sidewalks, crosswalks, wheelchair ramps etc.

My favorite are the idiots driving a midsized sedan, coupe, SUV, truck that manage to block the entire driveway to ________ say like McDonalds, the driveway is easily three cars or more wide yet idiots cannot get squared up enough with it to prevent blocking the whole damn thing.

Since this started about Cirrus drivers, last week I was on very short final and a dude in Cirrus was cleared for takeoff "no delay", 5 seconds later "START YOUR TAKEOFF ROLL!" this dude was on another planet or high he was so damn slow. I wish I had a video of it.

A couple years ago I was behind one who pulled up to hold short line of 35 turned into the wind blocking it and stopped, and no **** I think he called clearance delivery and sat there 10 minutes. In fact I asked ground for taxi back & intersection departure to get out.
 
MetalCloud said:
I didn't disagree with your point about their initial training. But then you went on to say it's gotten better. Which it has. So I'm asking why people don't embrace that or embrace what cirrus has done for GA? Instead it's the same tired stereotypes. I'm asking why people can't change their attitude towards a company that changed their initial issues and does a ton for GA, and I'm labeled "defensive"

I don't give a **** what people say about Cirrus or their opinions of the aircraft. I just take exception when people act like jackasses (not referring to you specifically. Just forum talk in general).
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Entry into a Cirrus requires a certain amount of capital. With that amount of capital there *tends* to be a certain amount of entitlement in that group of people. While it's not everyone that's in one, there is a propensity for those types to be in a Cirrus vs other more pauperish airplanes. It's just the same as BMW drivers. Is every single one a butt hole? No, but there's a reason there's a porcupine joke about BMW drivers. My buddy bought a BMW a few years ago, and he basically said, "ok, go ahead and start because I know you're going to." To which I did. He sold it (not because of that, but because he didn't actually like it). He traded it in for a Tesla, which I now give him more crap over.

So chalk up to the probability that you are more likely to run into an entitled douche-canoe in a Cirrus than you are to run into one flying, say, a Cessna 140. Are there inconsiderate buttholes in 140s? Yeah, but, bell curve and all.

I own a 4WD truck and a Corvette. So I hear all the jokes that go with those two things. I know they don't apply to me, so I just laugh and let it go.
 
EdFred said:
Entry into a Cirrus requires a certain amount of capital. With that amount of capital there *tends* to be a certain amount of entitlement in that group of people. While it's not everyone that's in one, there is a propensity for those types to be in a Cirrus vs other more pauperish airplanes. It's just the same as BMW drivers. Is every single one a butt hole? No, but there's a reason there's a porcupine joke about BMW drivers. My buddy bought a BMW a few years ago, and he basically said, "ok, go ahead and start because I know you're going to." To which I did. He sold it (not because of that, but because he didn't actually like it). He traded it in for a Tesla, which I now give him more crap over.

So chalk up to the probability that you are more likely to run into an entitled douche-canoe in a Cirrus than you are to run into one flying, say, a Cessna 140. Are there inconsiderate buttholes in 140s? Yeah, but, bell curve and all.

I own a 4WD truck and a Corvette. So I hear all the jokes that go with those two things. I know they don't apply to me, so I just laugh and let it go.
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Possibly yes. But the problem is that there are jerkholes everywhere, regardless of financial status. I also tend to think that those without the means to buy a new cirrus are very quick to judge. But that’s more of a reflection of society. People see “success” and think “schmuck” as opposed to “I bet he worked really hard to get there”

Not something we’ll resolve in this thread though ;)
 
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New Avatar for ya, Tim:

7ee682356c250f088144cd281e065f22.jpg
 
I thought they changed to the "pull early, pull often" mantra several years ago when the data showed that too many pilots were not using the chute and people were dying, at a rate higher than average for the GA fleet. Then after the push to use the chute Cirrus shifted to below average for deaths in the GA fleet.

I often get a question from a CFI when "pull the chute" isn't my first item. At least not from cruising altitude. Just after take-off, sure. From 10,000' over terrain under 1,000', no. I'm not pulling with 9,000'+ to the ground. At that height I'm often in glide range of a paved runway. Second, I don't want to drift that much. Find a nice open field and get lower over it on the windward side and then pull.

Although I get from some Cirrus owners that insurance will pay if you pull, but otherwise you pay for an engine repair if you glide in with a dead engine. Personally I'm more concerned with the passengers than the plane. Whichever option is best for everyone walking away is the one I'm going with.
 
EdFred said:
New Avatar for ya, Tim:

7ee682356c250f088144cd281e065f22.jpg
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Where did you find THAT? :lol:

Back story as to the existence of Cream of Weasel. My roommate and I while stationed in England got bored one day and starting talking about the multitude of flavors of crisps (what the English call potato chips) available in grocery stores and started making up our own suggestions. Cream of Weasel was about the 40th flavor we came up with.
 
Believe it or not it popped up on a duck duck go search. First result in images. Oh, man sounds like one night where we came up with the product of PorkShrooms which were mushrooms grown on the backs of pigs. (my buddy hates mushrooms, and pork doesn't like my insides, so we ended up combining the two so we could both hate, or love, them)
 
I like it and will hold it in reserve if my current avatar ever disappears. I fear that if I change it, people will forget me and then I'll catch a sad.
Having said that, Nauga changes his like the wind and never gets forgotten.


(insert deceptively humorous catchphrase here)
 
wayne said:
I thought they changed to the "pull early, pull often" mantra several years ago when the data showed that too many pilots were not using the chute and people were dying, at a rate higher than average for the GA fleet. Then after the push to use the chute Cirrus shifted to below average for deaths in the GA fleet.

I often get a question from a CFI when "pull the chute" isn't my first item. At least not from cruising altitude. Just after take-off, sure. From 10,000' over terrain under 1,000', no. I'm not pulling with 9,000'+ to the ground. At that height I'm often in glide range of a paved runway. Second, I don't want to drift that much. Find a nice open field and get lower over it on the windward side and then pull.

Although I get from some Cirrus owners that insurance will pay if you pull, but otherwise you pay for an engine repair if you glide in with a dead engine. Personally I'm more concerned with the passengers than the plane. Whichever option is best for everyone walking away is the one I'm going with.
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The problem has always been pilots not pulling the chute when they should have and paying the ultimate price. There are many examples of this.

Cirrus has always wanted pilots to pull rather than try to be heroes. The training on take off is 0 to 500 (or 600 for some models) agl, land straight ahead or slight turn to avoid obstacles. From 500 to 2,000 agl, pull immediately. Above 2,000 feet, you have time to think and fix if possible. For a spin, pull immediately. Loss of control in IMC, pull. Pretty much any emergency, where you can't absolutely assure a landing on a runway, it's generally safer to pull. This is the training Cirrus gives. So if you encounter an engine out at 10,000 feet, the first thing you do is put your hand on the handle and say to yourself "Caps available, should I pull?" In this case, probably not immediately. Gliding to a runway is probably an option. If a wing falls off, then you probably want to pull quickly.

At the end of the day, flying a Cirrus, in an emergency, if I have a choice between being stick hero and maybe landing in some field or pulling the chute, I'll pull every time, the odds of not getting injured are much better with the pull. I want to live.
 
steingar said:
I think the bad blood got started because Cirrus really centered their marketing around non pilots. "Look, it has a parachute". Moreover, the interiors look like car interiors. Diamond also makes fiberglass airplanes and they really don't show up of the flame wars.
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Well, I think that maybe they marketed the plane toward the non-pilot spouses, rather than potentially new pilots. Quite brilliant, in any case. And the interiors are very nice (though the Diamond DA62 I recently saw was closer to my Ford Flex interior than my Skyhawk.)
 
Honestly, I didn't know Zima was still available. I'm just happy someone is drinking it. ;)
 
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