The Best Time to Own a Plane in Years is NOW

[Everskyward]

I think one thing that keeps the GA pilot population low, and Mr. & Mrs. "reg'ler Amurican" out of it, is that there really is no way to "ease into" flying.

I think you can ease into flying just by taking a few lessons. It never occurred to me that I should want to buy an airplane as I was content renting. Good thing too, because I would never have been able to afford it being a college student then just starting out at my first full-time job.

 

[j1b3h0]

Okay, you've sold me. I want an airplane. My problem is, unlike many posters on this forum, that I think using a light airplane to travel anywhere is absurdly impractical: It's incredibly expensive, (per hour)it's time consuming, (drive to the airport, drag the airplane out of the hangar, preflight, fuel up, not to mention the flight planning) and subject to weather delays/cancilations, maint issues, etc. So you fly somewhere, THEN rent a car, stay somewhere nice and eat well. I'm guessing a $1000 weekend. Am I wrong?

So I fly for the pleasure of it...going somewhere is an occasional bonus. I like hanging around the airport with my pilot friends. And the only way I can afford it is in a partnership - preferably with 2-3 others. Still trying to figure what kind of airplane, an RV-4 maybe.

 

[steingar]

I use my aircraft to visit friends and family 100 to 200 nm away on a pretty routine basis. As such it is a really nice way to travel. Probably saves little time, but certainly makes the trips way better. Using it to travel bigger trips can have problems to be certain, but you make ordinary trips memorable. And you see things you'll never forget in your whole life. Gliders in the pattern in the fall mountain twilight. Lake Michigan with the air blown out by a storm looking like a giant puddle. If you don't have to be there on an exact time or day, GA can be a really rewarding way to travel. And I do everything VFR, probably the most undependable way to do anything.

 

[olasek]

and my boat is by far cheaper to own and operate than any of the aircraft.

I am reminded of this whenever my friend invites me for a weekend on his 30' motor boat (decent amount of room to sleep 2-3). He is a pilot and never owned an airplane, kept renting one, but ultimately settled on boats as much more affordable and practical way to socialize and spend time with people in some pleasant setting. Now he wants to get a larger boat so he could live on it and avoid paying expensive rent since his girlfriend left him and there is no one to share the rental with. :wink2:

 

[Henning]

Okay, you've sold me. I want an airplane. My problem is, unlike many posters on this forum, that I think using a light airplane to travel anywhere is absurdly impractical: It's incredibly expensive, (per hour)it's time consuming, (drive to the airport, drag the airplane out of the hangar, preflight, fuel up, not to mention the flight planning) and subject to weather delays/cancilations, maint issues, etc. So you fly somewhere, THEN rent a car, stay somewhere nice and eat well. I'm guessing a $1000 weekend. Am I wrong?

So I fly for the pleasure of it...going somewhere is an occasional bonus. I like hanging around the airport with my pilot friends. And the only way I can afford it is in a partnership - preferably with 2-3 others. Still trying to figure what kind of airplane, an RV-4 maybe.

Your assessment is not incorrect.

 

[dell30rb]

Last month I flew 350nm each way to see my brother in murfreesboro with 2 pax.

Its a 10 hour drive so that's out.

Renting the warrior 2 cost $700. And that was with unfavorable winds.

A direct flight on southwest cost 370 each the days I wanted to travel. And the block times would have been the same. I would have gone into BNA which is 30 min from my brother's place. As it was, i flew into an airport 5 miles from his house.

You can do fun trips for much less than a grand. In a few weeks i'm going to savannah. 4 (smaller) people, 2 rooms for 2 nights in a waterfront 4 star hotel within walking distance of everything. Plane, hotel and cab to and from airport is going to be about $215 each

 

[dell30rb]

And makes sense for business too. Here's an email i sent to 2 coworkers who went on a business trip recently for a 1hr meeting

Time and cost to drive from Raleigh to Anderson;

Round trip - 10.3 hours and 588 miles. 588 x 55.5 cents per mile = $326

2 Hotel rooms - $220 (?)

Dinner at restaurant - $50

Losing 1/2 day of work - $200??

Total Cost: $796




Time and Cost to Fly from Raleigh to Anderson Regional Airport,

1 hour driving to/from the airport $40

3.4 hours in the airplane = $330

Crew car to drive 3 miles to meeting: Free

Total Cost: $370



Have fun driving!

 

[RotorAndWing]

And makes sense for business too. Here's an email i sent to 2 coworkers who went on a business trip recently for a 1hr meeting

Time and cost to drive from Raleigh to Anderson;

Round trip - 10.3 hours and 588 miles. 588 x 55.5 cents per mile = $326

2 Hotel rooms - $220 (?)

Dinner at restaurant - $50

Losing 1/2 day of work - $200??

Total Cost: $796




Time and Cost to Fly from Raleigh to Anderson Regional Airport,

1 hour driving to/from the airport $40

3.4 hours in the airplane = $330

Crew car to drive 3 miles to meeting: Free

Total Cost: $370



Have fun driving!

Yes, GA can be useful for travel, to an extent. Weather plays a BIG factor in this and can destroy the "usefulness" for travel pretty quick.

It's all about capability. If you need more capability, you are gonna pay for it.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Yes, GA can be useful for travel, to an extent. Weather plays a BIG factor in this and can destroy the "usefulness" for travel pretty quick.

It's all about capability. If you need more capability, you are gonna pay for it.

Very true! I've visited several customers in Iowa- just far enough away to need an overnight stay because I drove. If I flew, most of the trips would have been 2 night stays due to weather. It happened 3 of 5 trips to Iowa customers. The weather was frontal thunderstorms or icing.

 

[Alexb2000]

You can do fun trips for much less than a grand. In a few weeks i'm going to savannah. 4 (smaller) people, 2 rooms for 2 nights in a waterfront 4 star hotel within walking distance of everything. Plane, hotel and cab to and from airport is going to be about $215 each

This is a great concept, but I can't tell you how difficult a time it is to work out in reality. I've brought a lot of friends and associates to NM to fish, ski, whatever. They stay at my house so that's free. I have a car so that's free. If we eat, drink, whatever, at the house that's also free for them. I pay the maid so that's free. Sometimes they'll ask what the airplane gas cost, when I tell them they kind of slowly slide their wallets back in their pants and say, "Wow I didn't know it cost that much". I don't make a big deal of it, if I don't really want someone to come I'll just tell them what their share of expenses will be. That always makes them find somewhere else they have to be that weekend (like on their own couch, which is also free). People are just plain cheap, no matter how much money they have.

 

[ClimbnSink]

It is not about the money. GA is boring. And a hassle. With crap social opportunities, ie zero mating opportunities. Mutual appreciation sort of happens, but unless you are flying a P-51 at any second something way cooler could fly in. Want to compare 30K GA plane to a boat pick something with the same useful load. Say a 16' rowboat with a little motor, sure the plane is faster, but you can drink and swim off the boat. Pick the size of the puddle or depth of the water and nothing bigger will float by.
And taking a rowboat to a deserted island is interesting, taking an airplane to a deserted airport is like being shipwrecked.
Consumer confidence is in the toilet, worse than that I think there is a value shift. Today I was talking with a friend who made over 250K last year, he just bought a 'new' car- 3k used Honda. Just decided that the joy derived from a new car isn't worth it. There is just no value in GA for the vast majority of people.
If you insist on trying the best sell would be GA for fun ie cub type flying(no $ in it,) but everyone wants to sell the travel utility lie. Before the 20/20 story killed it who were all the people driving the ultralight boom in the 80's? Wasn't rated pilots, that was aviation sold for fun with low hassle and was successful if a bit bloody.

 

[j1b3h0]

So, in some circumstances, flying is...maybe, a little more practical than driving or commercial. Airlines don't go there, for instance. Or somebody can't wait for you to visit, and will put you up. OK, I'll buy that. But the best thing to do with an airplane is have fun. I posit that the most fun to be had in an airplane (of your own) is when it involves a bunch of clearly dimented airplane nuts like us.

Last weekend I attended an EAA Young Eagles get together, during which 50 kids got a ride, then afterword a group of folks flew their machines to a nearby field for lunch. I got a brother with a beautiful E model Bonanza, and he has flown quite litterally thousands of miles - in formation with one or more Bonanza owners. The B2osh group is a bunch of great people. Airplanes can be great fun...but you have to love to fly, and I still do. If I needed an airplane to travel, well forget it. I'd like to share flying with friends an family who haven't experienced it before, and stuff like that.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Why would a reasonable person expecting to spend money want to subject themselves to band of selfish tightwads? That's not recreation.

I think you're confusing market conditions with personality. It's never a good idea to make business personal.

Mary and I spent 9 years creating a pilot's dream hotel in Iowa. We poured our heart and soul into that place, not to mention hundreds of thousands of dollars -- only to end up selling it at fire-sale prices to people who didn't want anything to do with aviation, simply because hotels nationwide had just lived through their worst years in recorded history.

Did it suck? You bet. But those same appalling market conditions made it possible for us to buy another hotel here on the island.

You may take it in the shorts selling your airplane -- but you'll make it up buying something even better. It works out.

 

[Jay Honeck]

<Big snip of anti-aircraft fire>

There again you could "hang out" in your hot and sweaty hangar while you wax your wings, a real family weekend.

And you fly...why, again?

 

[Jay Honeck]

Very true! I've visited several customers in Iowa- just far enough away to need an overnight stay because I drove. If I flew, most of the trips would have been 2 night stays due to weather. It happened 3 of 5 trips to Iowa customers. The weather was frontal thunderstorms or icing.

That's one of the reasons I never finished up my IFR ticket when we lived in Iowa. We studied the weather patterns for several years, and determined that there was lots of inclement weather that made flying impossible in spam cans, VFR or IFR.

My Pathfinder is a great all-around plane, but has no business in ice or convection -- the lion's share of IFR weather in your neck of the woods. To get all-weather capability has been and will continue to be beyond my budget.

IMHO, if you want all-weather flying, the airlines are your best bet. (Or, you can move to an area with 340 days of gorgeous VFR weather per year -- which is what Mary and I did... )

 

[RotorAndWing]

And you fly...why, again?

As a hobby (GA) but, unlike you I understand it's limitations and why it doesn't appeal to the masses and never will.

 

[Anthony]

It is not about the money. GA is boring. And a hassle. With crap social opportunities, ie zero mating opportunities.

You know, I have been thinkinbg about your post for a bit, and have come to the conclusion that you are onto something. GA IS boring when everything is going OK, and can be terrorfying when not. What do they say? Hours of boredom punctuated by minutes of terror?

When you compare GA to other interests like skiing, scuba diving, motorcycles, sports cars, it really does pale in comparison. It is a mode of transportation though but to really use it, you have to be very well equipped which costs even more $$$. It does get old on long trips, hour after hour, with your approach frequencies in your lap, and every so often telling ATC, Grumman XXX level at X....... That is why I prefer shorter trips to fun places as the flying stays fun, and you get to be somewhere you normally don't go. But I agree, it can get old, and the excitement/$ is low, and that is a good thing because excitement in GA usually means something has gone terribly wrong.

You are also correct about the social opportunities. If your objective is to meet a bunch of old, married, white guys, GA is the place for you!

 

[Alexb2000]

You know, I have been thinkinbg about your post for a bit, and have come to the conclusion that you are onto something. GA IS boring when everything is going OK, and can be terrorfying when not. What do they say? Hours of boredom punctuated by minutes of terror?

When you compare GA to other interests like skiing, scuba diving, motorcycles, sports cars, it really does pale in comparison. It is a mode of transportation though but to really use it, you have to be very well equipped which costs even more $$$. It does get old on long trips, hour after hour, with your approach frequencies in your lap, and every so often telling ATC, Grumman XXX level at X....... That is why I prefer shorter trips to fun places as the flying stays fun, and you get to be somewhere you normally don't go. But I agree, it can get old, and the excitement/$ is low, and that is a good thing because excitement in GA usually means something has gone terribly wrong.

You are also correct about the social opportunities. If your objective is to meet a bunch of old, married, white guys, GA is the place for you!

What interest that you listed doesn't get routine?

I've done and or do all four that you listed.

Motorcycling is about a short ride followed by a long sit at the bar, followed by wondering what the fatality rate is for driving a motorcycle after drinking.

Skiing is mostly about a bunch of out-of-shape flat landers coming up to a 13-14K mountain to exercise for the fist time in a year. After a couple of runs, freezing from cooling sweat, they retire to the.... bar.

Sports cars are long lonely hours in your garage polishing and waxing, interrupted by writing large checks for upgrades that do little more than slightly differentiate your car from everyone else's. The get togethers are what you look forward to and usually take place somewhere with a bar.

Scuba Diving is about going to some resort. Hoping on a cattle car dive boat, diving on the same exact spot that 25 other dive boats have just dropped their load on, returning to shore and discussing what you saw at the bar.

Flying can be just as thrilling. When you land, proceed to the nearest bar, and tell lies about the time you did an inverted low pass in your Travel Air.

 

[Everskyward]

What interest that you listed doesn't get routine?

I've done and or do all four that you listed.

Motorcycling is about a short ride followed by a long sit at the bar, followed by wondering what the fatality rate is for driving a motorcycle after drinking.

Skiing is mostly about a bunch of out-of-shape flat landers coming up to a 13-14K mountain to exercise for the fist time in a year. After a couple of runs, freezing from cooling sweat, they retire to the.... bar.

Sports cars are long lonely hours in your garage polishing and waxing, interrupted by writing large checks for upgrades that do little more than slightly differentiate your car from everyone else's. The get togethers are what you look forward to and usually take place somewhere with a bar.

Scuba Diving is about going to some resort. Hoping on a cattle car dive boat, diving on the same exact spot that 25 other dive boats have just dropped their load on, returning to shore and discussing what you saw at the bar.

Flying can be just as thrilling. When you land, proceed to the nearest bar, and tell lies about the time you did an inverted low pass in your Travel Air.

People sometimes chide me for not really participating in any hobbies. Now I know why.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

I see a lot of folks caught in bad plane deals just like bad home or business deals. Many just don't have confidence in how they will do job wise (or business wise if they own a business). So, they're getting rid of unnecessary things or not making new commitments.
I'm renting a C-90; poor fella that has it, purchased it at the top of the market a little over three years ago. In sum, he can't sell it for the note amount now. Real bad deal: he bought it to see someone that passed away shortly after he purchased it. Then, out of the blue, a mechanic that worked on several planes many years back reported he and those working with him had made improper repairs in the wing spar area of several planes. The FAA eventually made all current owners do repairs: his were over $70,000. This is something one would never discover on a pre-buy. This year, his business took a real hit and he just needs to get out.

In general, I've been watching a certain KA model for a couple years thinking I might purchase one if business gets better. Prices have gone down about 25 to 30% while I've been watching.

And, it's not just the purchase prices as has been said: it's the care and feeding. In turbines there are mandatory inspections whether one flies or not. This fella just had to replace all hoses and has two phase inspections coming up and he's not fling at all.

So, there's a lot going on. Business conditions are really hurting many. Planes have decreased in value and many folks have debt on those planes; many are under water on that debt. Even those of us that are O.K. are reluctant to make new commitments because of a lack of confidence in future business.

Best,


Dave

 

[dell30rb]

People sometimes chide me for not really participating in any hobbies. Now I know why.

I don't think my liver could handle so many hobbies!

 

[Henning]

I think you're confusing market conditions with personality. It's never a good idea to make business personal.

That's MY point. Aviation for most people IS personal yet they are caught in a business value mentality. Value for personal use is calculated differently from being a resale business asset.

 

[dell30rb]

It is not about the money. GA is boring. And a hassle. With crap social opportunities, ie zero mating opportunities.

Sorry but I don't need for GA to fulfill my mating opportunity needs. That's not really why I started flying...

 

[Henning]

Sorry but I don't need for GA to fulfill my mating opportunity needs. That's not really why I started flying...

It's not about you, you're already spending money flying. It's about getting other people not already involved to spend their recreation $$$ flying. Most people are looking for a social aspect to how they spend their recreation $$$s.

 

[wabower]

Dollars are fungible. The bank account only knows the amounts that are deposited and withdrawn. People routinely gamble in Vegas with the knowledge they will probably lose, and write it off to "entertainment." C. Barkley and others seem to place a higher value on the entertainment than the average tourist, but most seem to accept the reality of house odds. Some, however, return home and decide it's a fool's errand and don't go back.

That's MY point. Aviation for most people IS personal yet they are caught in a business value mentality. Value for personal use is calculated differently from being a resale business asset.

 

[Alexb2000]

Sorry but I don't need for GA to fulfill my mating opportunity needs. That's not really why I started flying...

What are you guys talking about?

Just the other day I was at the FBO when a very fit young lady in daisy dukes and a tank top came in asking where the owner of the "bad ass" 140 was. She said she had something she wanted to give him. Doesn't that happen all the time on your field?

 

[Anthony]

What interest that you listed doesn't get routine?

I've done and or do all four that you listed.

Motorcycling is about a short ride followed by a long sit at the bar, followed by wondering what the fatality rate is for driving a motorcycle after drinking.

Skiing is mostly about a bunch of out-of-shape flat landers coming up to a 13-14K mountain to exercise for the fist time in a year. After a couple of runs, freezing from cooling sweat, they retire to the.... bar.

Sports cars are long lonely hours in your garage polishing and waxing, interrupted by writing large checks for upgrades that do little more than slightly differentiate your car from everyone else's. The get togethers are what you look forward to and usually take place somewhere with a bar.

Scuba Diving is about going to some resort. Hoping on a cattle car dive boat, diving on the same exact spot that 25 other dive boats have just dropped their load on, returning to shore and discussing what you saw at the bar.

Flying can be just as thrilling. When you land, proceed to the nearest bar, and tell lies about the time you did an inverted low pass in your Travel Air.

So I guess what you are saying is that to skip all that stuff, and just go to the.......................................bar?

OK, I can live with that.

 

[PPC1052]

First post here. I got my PPC in 2011, and just completed a deal on a 1976 Cardinal. I was able to buy in cheap. Worse comes to worse, I can just simply give my interest away without taking a that big of a hit in the grand scheme of things. So, it's not too terrible of a time to get in to GA.

I have to say, all of this pessimism on this board makes me feel a little uneasy that I may have gotten into aviation at the wrong time. I hope that feeling passes. If there is some way that a cheaper alternative to the current Avgas situation could be found, that would, in my opinion, go a long way to curing much of what ails GA. I know, that may be a pipe dream.

 

[dell30rb]

What are you guys talking about?

Just the other day I was at the FBO when a very fit young lady in daisy dukes and a tank top came in asking where the owner of the "bad ass" 140 was. She said she had something she wanted to give him. Doesn't that happen all the time on your field?

I actually met a very attractive female pilot at the EXX FBO and i'm pretty sure she was over 18. The FBO was out of sectionals and I was going to give her an extra one. Unfortunately I was traveling with my girlfriend so I couldn't stay and chat. I hope she does not read this

 

[Henning]

Dollars are fungible. The bank account only knows the amounts that are deposited and withdrawn. People routinely gamble in Vegas with the knowledge they will probably lose, and write it off to "entertainment." C. Barkley and others seem to place a higher value on the entertainment than the average tourist, but most seem to accept the reality of house odds. Some, however, return home and decide it's a fool's errand and don't go back.

Right, but none of those bets were placed by judging the monetary return on investment. They may decide that gambling or that game doesn't give them whatever else they were looking for, but it's not over not making enough money on their investment at the table. Pro gamblers OTOH rate each bet as a monetary investment, same as an aircraft dealer would. Thing is there is nothing recreational about professional gambling, it's hard work and a lot of research.

 

[dell30rb]

I have to say, all of this pessimism on this board makes me feel a little uneasy that I may have gotten into aviation at the wrong time. I hope that feeling passes. If there is some way that a cheaper alternative to the current Avgas situation could be found, that would, in my opinion, go a long way to curing much of what ails GA. I know, that may be a pipe dream.

I agree, avgas is a huge problem. The greenies hate it, its not necessary for 80% of airplanes, its expensive... I could go on.

Mogas STC is the way to go. I only wish more airfields would have mogas.

 

[Alexb2000]

I actually met a very attractive female pilot at the EXX FBO and i'm pretty sure she was over 18. The FBO was out of sectionals and I was going to give her an extra one. Unfortunately I was traveling with my girlfriend so I couldn't stay and chat.

So you were going to give her an extra sectional?

That's how it always starts with these attractive FBO girls, cue the music....

 

[dell30rb]

So you were going to give her an extra sectional?

That's how it always starts with these attractive FBO girls, cue the music....

I was, but I didn't have one. Womp Womp

 

[PPC1052]

I agree, avgas is a huge problem. The greenies hate it, its not necessary for 80% of airplanes, its expensive... I could go on.

Please do. Go on, that is. I would like to hear more about this issue. I am not up on all of the technical aspects of fuel necessary for most single engine piston aircraft. I am aware that many can use Mogas, with an STC, but for the ethanol issue. The ethanol-made-from-corn movement in the U.S. was stupid from the begining. At least the ethanol subsidy has expired without renewal. If only the requirement for "renewable" fuel would expire, too, so the refineries stop putting ethanol in mogas altogether.

How much lead/octane due typical pistons require? What are these 20% outliers to which you refer?

 

[dell30rb]

Search on here for some threads with some more in depth technical discussion.

80% is a rough approximation of the amount of light GA planes that would be able to use mogas. I think your cardinal is very likely to be one. The STC is usually about $200 and most only require a fuel system inspection from a mechanic. It varies from model to model.

You need non-ethanol fuel for almost every STC. its not terribly hard to find. Many STC's require 91 octane or better, many don't. www.pure-gas.org has a list of gas stations that supply non-ethanol fuel. You'll have to test it, but you can test the fuel easily, cheaply and quickly.

In most cases the amount of lead in 100LL is actually much more than is needed. Lead fouling esp. in engines that are run very ROP can be a big issue. Some STC's recommend you put in some 100LL every couple of tanks, mostly this is a precaution.

 

[Anthony]

Search on here for some threads with some more in depth technical discussion.

80% is a rough approximation of the amount of light GA planes that would be able to use mogas. I think your cardinal is very likely to be one. The STC is usually about $200 and most only require a fuel system inspection from a mechanic. It varies from model to model.

You need non-ethanol fuel for almost every STC. its not terribly hard to find. Many STC's require 91 octane or better. www.pure-gas.org has a list of gas stations that supply non-ethanol fuel.

The Lycoming O-360A4K that is in my Tiger is certified for Mogas, however, the Tiger's airframe is not. Thank the FAA for the stupidity in having to test an airframe for what an engine is able to do. If they took away that requirement many more of us go use Mogas.

 

[Jay Honeck]

That's MY point. Aviation for most people IS personal yet they are caught in a business value mentality. Value for personal use is calculated differently from being a resale business asset.

No, you're taking the current crappy business conditions personally. You're acting emotionally hurt because the economy at large sucks, and you can't sell your airplane for what you want it to sell for.

I fully understand the feeling -- been there, done that, on a much larger scale -- but my point is that it's not healthy.

When I get really ****ed off at the economy, I think back to the terrible depressions of the late 1800s that EVERYONE has forgotten. (No news reels back then, doncha know?)

My great-great-great grandfather, Heinrich, owned a pretty good spread in Wisconsin. I've tracked his land purchases over a few decades, and he was a very successful farmer for a long time, slowly expanding his holdings.

Then, one of the terrible depressions hit. By the 1900 census, he and his wife had moved to a tiny apartment in Milwaukee, and listed his occupation as "bricklayer" -- at age 60.

So, "sucking" is relative. Cheer up -- it could be a lot worse.

 

[Jay Honeck]

First post here. I got my PPC in 2011, and just completed a deal on a 1976 Cardinal. I was able to buy in cheap. Worse comes to worse, I can just simply give my interest away without taking a that big of a hit in the grand scheme of things. So, it's not too terrible of a time to get in to GA.

Welcome aboard. There is a wealth of knowledge here that will help you with your new airplane ownership!

Sounds like you've got the right idea. Buying in as a partner at a level you can afford to lose without sweating it is the "best case scenario" in aviation. I did it with our old Ercoupe, and it was SO much more fun to own than our Pathfinder. (A much more capable plane, but way more expensive to buy, own, and operate.)

I have to say, all of this pessimism on this board makes me feel a little uneasy that I may have gotten into aviation at the wrong time. I hope that feeling passes.

The Great Recession has been quite a shock to many long-time aircraft owners -- many of whom simply have simply dropped out since 2008 due to business failures, etc. (Which has resulted in a glut of used aircraft on the market, driving prices to record lows -- thus precipitating this thread.)

Between the economy, our president's fondness of bashing GA in very public settings, and pilot demographics (basically we're getting really old, with not enough young 'uns to follow), and the overall feeling in aviation has been negative for years.

You, my friend, are part of the solution. Thank you!

 

[Henning]

I agree, avgas is a huge problem. The greenies hate it, its not necessary for 80% of airplanes, its expensive... I could go on.

Mogas STC is the way to go. I only wish more airfields would have mogas.

I'll have absolutely no problem with 94UL, I look forward to the day when it's what's available. I bet I could get my plane to pass a MoGas STC even now that the fuel pumps run on low full time anyway. Petersen offered me the use of his fuel heating rig and other facilities if I wanted to give it a shot. In his words, "Not much to lose really; you try, if it flies the profile flights without a problem, you're done. If not, you're just down the cost of trying."

 

[DaleB]

Motorcycling is about a short ride followed by a long sit at the bar, followed by wondering what the fatality rate is for driving a motorcycle after drinking.

Maybe in your world. In ours, motorcycling is about long rides, sometimes a couple of days each way or more, often towing a small cargo trailer with all our stuff. We stay off the Interstate as much as we can and enjoy the ride. It takes longer than driving, but is a hell of a lot more fun. And we never stop at bars... I decided early on that one beer while riding was one past my personal limit.

Sports cars are long lonely hours in your garage polishing and waxing, interrupted by writing large checks for upgrades that do little more than slightly differentiate your car from everyone else's. The get togethers are what you look forward to and usually take place somewhere with a bar.

Again -- not my experience at all. Sports cars for me were more like, "Screw the wax, it doesn't make the car faster", a day spent racing, and usually skipping the so-called "social" activities. We're not big drinkers, and many of our fellow enthusiasts were people I don't mind racing against but sure as hell don't want to drink with.

Flying can be just as thrilling. When you land, proceed to the nearest bar, and tell lies about the time you did an inverted low pass in your Travel Air.

Wow. And you fly... why, exactly?

PPC1052, don't' let it get you down. It's an Internet forum, so you have to take everything with a large dose of skepticism and a grain or two of salt.