The age old question: Is money important in life?

N918KT

N918KT

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Hey guys. I recently thought about this question after seeing my friends and family make more money than me. I start to compare my life to their life. Sometimes I start to get jealous.

So do you think money is important in life? For me I just want to make enough money to live independently (and hopefully get a pilot certificate someday). I don't expect to make like say a $100 grand a year.
 
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy airplanes and fuel, which is basically the same thing as happiness.
 
Is it fun to have money? Most likely. Does it make someone better than someone else because they have more? Never.
 
It may not be the most important thing in life, but it sure is better than being broke.
 
The real key is finding contentment within your means. If you can't do that, no amount of money will make you happy. Lots of wealthy folks out there are not satisfied with their position - they are constantly seeking more. Money is a little like alcohol. It makes life better, but really easy to get addicted and drunk off it.
 
I believe I read or heard from somewhere that at a certain level of salary, you start to see some kind of law of diminishing returns, where you start to get dissatisfied with the money you make. I think somewhere between $70,000 and $80,000 you start to see that law of diminishing return.
 
N918KT said:
I believe I read or heard from somewhere that at a certain level of salary, you start to see some kind of law of diminishing returns, where you start to get dissatisfied with the money you make. I think somewhere between $70,000 and $80,000 you start to see that law of diminishing return.
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I think that is something entirely dependent on the individual.
 
N918KT said:
I believe I read or heard from somewhere that at a certain level of salary, you start to see some kind of law of diminishing returns, where you start to get dissatisfied with the money you make. I think somewhere between $70,000 and $80,000 you start to see that law of diminishing return.
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I've heard that before and I think it is true. That's enough to have a nice comfy house in a safe area, a decent car, most of the gadgets one wants, good food, some hobbies, etc.

Not to mention if you have to spend most of your waking hours earning it, then what was the point? Can't enjoy it.
 
Happiness and Contentment are the important things.

Wealthy or poor, if you don't have some of those things, you are pretty miserable.
 
The more I have the more I am baffled as to how hard it is to hang onto it.
It is mind boggling to me how much money I manage to not have.

As far as that sweet spot it is probably true.
The more you make, the fewer opportunities exist that can support the higher numbers and yet you now have to be able to continue to support that higher level of living to which you are accustomed.

That said, the SAP developer that reports to me is billing me $225/hour and he seems damned relaxed all the time.

So I am thinking there are numbers much further north where that stress goes back down.
 
cowman said:
Not to mention if you have to spend most of your waking hours earning it, then what was the point? Can't enjoy it.
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That is a problem. Guys that can afford to buy private jets typically don't have the time to fly them.

Also why I suspect high dollar airplanes like Cirrus (today) and Bonanzas of yesteryear have had higher accident rates - those that can afford them often don't have the time to be proficient in them.
 
Without a doubt money is 'important', if only for the necessities it can buy (food, shelter, etc). The issue is when people start thinking its all-important or start thinking their personal worth is tied to how much money they have.

The 'living within your means' comment is great. There are a lot of lower income people that make it work and are happy. There are a lot of rich people who cant buy enough 'stuff' to be happy.
 
N918KT said:
I believe I read or heard from somewhere that at a certain level of salary, you start to see some kind of law of diminishing returns, where you start to get dissatisfied with the money you make. I think somewhere between $70,000 and $80,000 you start to see that law of diminishing return.
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Might depend on whether you are single or married.

If single, $75K +/- is probably a good set point.
If married, especially with kids, plan on eating a lot of Ramen and couching in front of the tube. Forget about aviation --- your other half will have other plans for the loot (and your needs will be secondary)
 
Having money is important to a certain point, but I sometimes get frustrated when every conversation with someone turns into how much something costs, or a lecture on how I could have done or bought something for less.
 
Also keep in mind there is a big difference in monetary requirements if you have to fund your own retirement. Retiring from the Fed or the State with a $75K base salary is on par with earning $200K as a consultant for twenty five years then retiring.
 
There actually were a few studies that show increasing salary up to around $70k could CONTRIBUTE to happiness. However, beyond that it made no difference to a person's quantifiable happiness. (Yes the studies attempt to quantify happiness). However in the end, to a person who was considered a happy person, the monetary increase only contributed little to overall happiness. The point is money had little to do with someone's outlook on life and general happiness. There is a lot to be said for not joining the rat race. Now on the lighter side I'm reminded of a bit by Daniel Tosh who said "Money CAN buy happiness. It can buy me a jet ski. You ever see some one NOT smiling on a jet ski?"
 
I think money is definitely very important. Not the most important (I'd say health is #1), but very important.

To me, money = freedom. I've been a 9-to-5 cube rat and working for other people for 25 years now, and I'm sick of it. I'm hoping to (semi?) retire next year and never work for another person again.

The only thing that would enable me to do that is money. The more money I have, the more freedom and options in life that I have, and I don't need to rely on a job or other people. That's extremely important to me.
 
Our rabbi shared a version of this story as his sermon on Yom Kippor:

This is an amazing story of the 99 club.

There was one king, since he had lots of responsibilities he was always stressed. He used to see a farmer who was very happy. He was very happy with his farming and family, he had no stress, he used to work hard but enjoy his work and was contented with his life.

King always wondered how can this farmer be so contented, even after he doesn’t have luxurious life. The king asked this his minister to find out the reason behind the farmer’s containment.

The minister observed that the farmer was happy because he didn’t had anything to worry about. He used to work hard, to earn his bread and butter and because he worked hard he got better sleep. He was happy with his family and farming.

The minister then kept a small bag with 99 gold coins outside his house. Next day when the farmer saw the bag he was ecstatic. He began to count them. After several counts, he was at last convinced that there were 99 coins. ‘What could’ve happened to that last gold coin? Surely, no one would leave 99 coins!’ he wondered. He looked everywhere he could, but that final coin was elusive. Finally, exhausted, he decided that he would have to work harder than ever to earn that gold coin and complete his collection.

From that day he started to work really hard and hard, and could not give enough attention to his family. He was completely focused on earning that one more coin. He stopped enjoying his work. The king observed this and asked his minister what happened to him, why is he no more contented? The minister replied that he has joined our club of 99.

The 99 club is a name given to those people who have enough to be happy but are never contented because they’re always striving for that extra one. They always tell themselves, “Let me get that final one and then I’ll be happy for life”.

We can be happy even with very little in our life, but the minute we’re given something bigger and better, we want more!!! We lose our sleep, our happiness, we hurt the people around us. We lose all this at a price of our growing greed and desire.
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Money can't buy you happiness but it allows you to show up to your problems in style!

Money does not solve any problems, it only add more zeros to the problems you have. If someone can not manage money and find happiness at $40K a year, they will not be able to at $120k a year either.
 
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Here's the problem with making/having too much money: it's down to scale. So you go from having Cessna 150 money to having 172 money... almost a 2x increase. Rewarding, attainable, etc. Then we co up from that to say a 182... again about another 2x increase or 4x from where we were. Again attainable but harder.

So now we want to go up again... going to a Cessna 310. Again, maybe another 2x increase in costs(or more). This is really hard compared to the others but you can probably swing it. 8x or worse cost increase

....and where do we go from here? We're quickly into territory of $million planes that cost a buttload more torun. You're gonna have to work almost impossibly hard and save up for decades to get there.

And what did we get? Well we went from a 2 seater to a six seater and from 90kts to maybe 200kts right? Well we tripled our seating and did a bit better than doubling our speed but we spent 8x the cash... upgrading may take us up to 16x more resources needed. That's how much more work you'll have to do... not to mention the complexity of dealing with that extra work and managing that much more in assets. Imagine what it will take to reach the top and get a TBM 900.

The returns are diminishing.

Human beings are driven to continually improve, I think we all get a kind of empty feeling when we're not going somewhere. Career advancement, physical, mental, whatever type of improvement doesn't matter I think as long as we're moving forward. However, one has to get perspective. If you only wanted to take your wife and kids to disneyland maybe the 182 was all you really needed.

Maybe you add on some ratings, fly to different places, see how far you can take that 182. To be happy at some point you do need to figure out that you've made it and try to enjoy being there... for each of us that's going to be a different point but just like the airplanes figure out what the mission is then you'll know how much you need.
 
N918KT said:
I believe I read or heard from somewhere that at a certain level of salary, you start to see some kind of law of diminishing returns, where you start to get dissatisfied with the money you make. I think somewhere between $70,000 and $80,000 you start to see that law of diminishing return.
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Great thread. Thank you for reminding me of the fulfillment curve. I had forgotten it, to my detriment.
 
Family first,health second,the the drive to make enough money to be comfortable in your chosen lifestyle.
 
I've been blessed with "enough" money most of my life and, by my standards, lots of money for 3 or 4 years. Those 3 or 4 years are the ones where I bought an airplane and learned to fly.

I only worry about money to the extent that I have to worry about money.
 
I met a guy worth about $400 million earlier this year. We had an extensive conversation and money eventually came up. He said, "Money doesn't buy happiness. It buys choices." I think that pretty much nails it.
 
colojo said:
I met a guy worth about $400 million earlier this year. We had an extensive conversation and money eventually came up. He said, "Money doesn't buy happiness. It buys choices." I think that pretty much nails it.
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I would have said "please choose to give me some" hahaha.
 
Money (or assets really) is important for 3 reasons:

1) keeping the wolves away from the door [basic food, shelter, warmth, predictability].

2) it buys options for how you deal with life stresses.

3) Money is a wonderful tool and servant, but a horrible master. The moment you find yourself fretting about money or what you need to do to keep it or get more, back off.
 
It's quality of life, and yes you need XX money to be able to have a good one, however how much just depends on what you're into.

For me, I could really bust my butt a little more and make a decent chunk more money, but it really would not change how I live my life, or the things I enjoy doing. Right now I have everything I want and need, so I'd rather invest my time in enjoying whatever time I have on this earth, vs making excess money. If that makes sense.
 
I like having money, but personally consider it more of a barometer of my success. I wouldn't do any work I didn't like just for the money. Well.....
 
Is money important in life? Absolutely. Money is a tool, at least that's how I look at it. Without money, you don't eat and are dependent on someone else. With money you eat and are independent. The question becomes how much is enough? Money will not make you happy. There are many examples of that. Some of the most content and down to earth people I have met have little money, but are able to live within their means and find contentment in things that are not associated with money. Some of the most miserable people I've met have more money than they will ever be able to spend, yet are fanatic about making more.

The bottom line is be happy with yourself, find your joy in your family and friends, not things. Live within your means, which means being a slave to no-one.

Also remember, many people you see in big houses, driving expensive cars and who are members at the best country club, are one layoff away from bankruptcy. Where many of the old guys and gals, driving beaters, shopping at flea markets and Walmart are multimillionaires, secure in themselves and laughing at the posers. Something to think about.

Another thing is that large salaries is an awful way to build wealth. Our progressive tax structure assures that. The more you make, the bigger percentage of you salary goes to taxes.

A great book for everyone to read is: "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley and Danko. The stats and numbers in the book are dated now, but the concepts will be valid for millennia.
 
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write-stuff said:
I like having money, but personally consider it more of a barometer of my success. I wouldn't do any work I didn't like just for the money. Well.....
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I think money is poor indicator of success. I know people who are dirt poor whom I would consider very successful at life, while I've met filthy rich people who are utter failures.
 
PaulS said:
I think money is poor indicator of success. I know people who are dirt poor whom I would consider very successful at life, while I've met filthy rich people who are utter failures.
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That's fine. In my case it works very well as a measure. I was only talking about me.
 
"I've been rich and I've been poor, rich is better" -- don't remember
 
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