That trip was cut short

Chrisgoesflying

Chrisgoesflying

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Chrisgoesflying
I was planning a trip from Canada all the way down to Florida in my Cherokee this weekend. The first leg was a short 2 hour flight to just south of the border to clear customs. All uneventful until we were ready to go for our second leg.

As I was doing my cockpit check, I noticed my carpet and side panel was wet and smelled like gas. I went back to the FBO and the mechanic came out to take a look. It was leaking from the fuel selector valve, mostly from the left tank.

He was hoping that he can just tighten it up but that didn’t help. He said the manual says that for this part “no field repairs” meaning he said he’ll have to order and install a new fuel selector valve.

I assumed he could just install a new o ring as that’s what most likely has gone bad but apparently not. Do you guys have any advice?

I rented a car now but man, that drive from North Dakota to Florida and then back again doesn’t look fun at all :-/

What do you think would be my best course of action?

It’s a Cherokee 140 vintage 1966.
 
I don’t think you can drive to Florida and back again in a weekend. If you did you’d certainly spend no time in Florida that wasn’t driving.

(my smart ass way of saying not enough information about your mission to express a real opinion)
 
Certainly wouldn't fly it if it's leaking that bad. It probably could be repaired if it was disassembled, but you can't force him to do something he doesn't want to do. My landing gear valve is the same way-"no serviceable parts" but my mechanic fixed it with a standard o-ring. Unfortunately you are at the mercy of the mechanic on the field when you venture away from your home base. If you can go online and find directions and part numbers you might be able to talk him into it.

I can tell you the drive from IL to FL is 18 hours and we break it into 3 days. It sucks hard. I strongly recommend against it. Drive to the airport and go commercial if you still want to go. I wish I could (my plane broke down in GA on the way to FL Tues.), but there are seven of us and I just can't justify spending the money.
 
My belief is the original valve in your aircraft could be serviced. Do you feel a detent? If not; the “ cup” is probably inverted and the cone is not seating and sealing. If you do have a detent then replacing the o-ring and possibly the gasket will cure your ills.
 
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Jim K said:
Certainly wouldn't fly it if it's leaking that bad. It probably could be repaired if it was disassembled, but you can't force him to do something he doesn't want to do. My landing gear valve is the same way-"no serviceable parts" but my mechanic fixed it with a standard o-ring. Unfortunately you are at the mercy of the mechanic on the field when you venture away from your home base. If you can go online and find directions and part numbers you might be able to talk him into it.

I can tell you the drive from IL to FL is 18 hours and we break it into 3 days. It sucks hard. I strongly recommend against it. Drive to the airport and go commercial if you still want to go. I wish I could (my plane broke down in GA on the way to FL Tues.), but there are seven of us and I just can't justify spending the money.
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Slight thread drift, but what do you fly that carries 7 people. I do see your avatar that shows Papa Bear, Mama Bear and 5 little baby bears, but that is still a lot of seats. Do some of them ride in the cargo area?
 
That drive is the Epic Road Trip that childhood memories are made of. The kind of memories that make people pay airfare for large families.

The fastest solution is to fly commercial. The second fastest is to tour North Dakota while awaiting the part. The third option is to go back home while awaiting the part.
 
JOhnH said:
Slight thread drift, but what do you fly that carries 7 people. I do see your avatar that shows Papa Bear, Mama Bear and 5 little baby bears, but that is still a lot of seats. Do some of them ride in the cargo area?
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He has a PA-32R-300 Lance
 
JOhnH said:
Slight thread drift, but what do you fly that carries 7 people. I do see your avatar that shows Papa Bear, Mama Bear and 5 little baby bears, but that is still a lot of seats. Do some of them ride in the cargo area?
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Piper lance and cherokee 6 had an available 7th seat with the forward facing seating configuration. It fills in between the middle row seats. That's the #1 reason I picked this plane, although knowing what I know now, I'd want one even if I didn't have kids.
 
Lol, driving down and back on a weekend, no way. The plan is to stay for a week and come back the next weekend. ND to FL is 30 hours. We’re now 6 hours into the drive so 24 left and it already sucks. That’s the main reason I got my PPL for lol.
Commercial is not an option. We have our dog with us and no way we put him in cargo.
I do feel the ident when switching tanks. No issues with it until yesterday. Matter of fact, last week my mechanic changed the interior and performed an annual on the plane with no issues noted. When I got back home, my tanks were empty and the plane was parked outside for a week. I asked the knucklehead at the flying club to fill the tanks and he said he would. I don’t like having the plane outside with empty tanks, especially in sub 0 temps. He obviously forgot to do it. Maybe that dried out the ring.
Regardless of what happened, I see that many mechanics simply changed the o ring and put the plane back in service so I assume it’s legal. The mechanic here in ND doesn’t often work on small planes so he might be overly cautious. Does anyone here know about the legalities of doing this on a 1966 Cherokee? If so, I might be able to convince him to just fix it. A $2 o ring and a few hours of labour beats a $600 new valve.
 
Might I suggest borrowing a day from Florida, and spending that day at some interesting/enjoyable place on the route? Perhaps Philadelphia or DC to show the kids a bit of American History? (I haven't looked at the path you are taking, and those two are probably not on your route, but I am sure there would be something interesting on your way). It would break up the drive a bit and perhaps help teach the kids that sometimes things don't go as planned and to try to make the best of it.
 
Do you know when the last time the valve was overhauled? If in the last 15 years I would go for the o ring replacement. If older than that send it out for rebuild or get a new one.
 
JOhnH said:
Might I suggest borrowing a day from Florida, and spending that day at some interesting/enjoyable place on the route? Perhaps Philadelphia or DC to show the kids a bit of American History? (I haven't looked at the path you are taking, and those two are probably not on your route, but I am sure there would be something interesting on your way). It would break up the drive a bit and perhaps help teach the kids that sometimes things don't go as planned and to try to make the best of it.
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this is a good idea, but your location choices are not good for a trip from ND to Florida. Maybe New Orleans. Not sure kids would enjoy that though.
 
Airfare is cheaper than flying your Piper! I just dropped a light twin off at a maintenance facility in south Florida on Friday. Was planning to stay for the weekend but ended up needing to get back home. Purchased an airline ticket out of Orlando for a hundred bucks.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
The mechanic here in ND doesn’t often work on small planes so he might be overly cautious. Does anyone here know about the legalities of doing this on a 1966 Cherokee?
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Is your aircraft C reg? As to working on the fuel it depends on which P/N it is. Some you can and get the parts and others you can't to include various Piper OEM valves as I recall. Put these points all togather and could be the reason for ordering a replacement valve??
 
Wow, too bad. I probably would have stayed and pushed to get the repair done. Driving will cost you a few days, so the chance of getting it fixed would have been worth the day or so to me.
 
Push for the repair vs driving was a big debate between my left half and right half of the brain. My reasoning was, the mechanic seemed pretty adamant that the part needs to be changed and it could take days to get it delivered. If it ends up taking a week to get it fixed, that’s half of our vacation gone. We really wanted to get a break from the cold so staying in ND just barley south of our departure point would be kind of pointless. Guess another road trip for us. If it does end up getting fixed within a matter of days, anyone here on the forum from ND who wants to ferry a Cherokee to Florida? That way we could at least fly back.
 
Can you get pix of existing valve?
At one time the Piper Check List for your aircraft REQUIRED periodic lubrication of the unit. The valve must be disassembled to apply the lube ( aka GRG,peanut butter, fuel lube , EZ turn etc etc) to the valve cone.

My guess is that 90% of the Techs doing this task would replace the o-ring at that time.
 
Jim K said:
Certainly wouldn't fly it if it's leaking that bad. It probably could be repaired if it was disassembled, but you can't force him to do something he doesn't want to do. My landing gear valve is the same way-"no serviceable parts" but my mechanic fixed it with a standard o-ring. Unfortunately you are at the mercy of the mechanic on the field when you venture away from your home base. If you can go online and find directions and part numbers you might be able to talk him into it.

I can tell you the drive from IL to FL is 18 hours and we break it into 3 days. It sucks hard. I strongly recommend against it. Drive to the airport and go commercial if you still want to go. I wish I could (my plane broke down in GA on the way to FL Tues.), but there are seven of us and I just can't justify spending the money.
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We need something like pilots n paws for pilots with aog away from home base. Unfortunately you'd have used it more often than you'd like. Driving does suck.
 
Magman said:
Can you get pix of existing valve?
At one time the Piper Check List for your aircraft REQUIRED periodic lubrication of the unit. The valve must be disassembled to apply the lube ( aka GRG,peanut butter, fuel lube , EZ turn etc etc) to the valve cone.

My guess is that 90% of the Techs doing this task would replace the o-ring at that time.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about that also, figuring that the valve in question was one of those that should be lubed periodically unless it was replaced somewhere in the past 50 years. Those valves are certainly serviceable. The newer airplanes have a different valve and may be what the mechanic was referencing when he was saying it couldn't be rebuilt.
 
Made it to Florida earlier today, only about 18 hours later than I had planned to arrive by plane. That drive was grueling though. Thanks for the suggestion to stop in interesting places on the way to show the kids some history. The only kid on board is our puppy - he doesn't care much for history. This trip has the sole purpose of giving us a short break from the Canadian cold. Also, driving from ND to NW Florida, there isn't much interesting on the way, much less when trying to get out of the cold. The few interesting places on the way, we either lived in or visited extensively in the past.

Anyway, the mechanic talked to me today saying a new valve has been ordered and the plane will be back in service Thursday or Friday at the latest. If you have any ferry pilot recommendations, please send them my way. I'd rather have the plane down here and fly back instead of doing that drive all over again.
 
Sounds like it’s mostly a done deal, except for the reunion with the plane.

I’ve had an ignition switch needing replacement while out in UT. I was trying to limp home, but my start became near impossible. Once sourced, I paid for expedited shipping, shop put it in. While that was going on, we adjusted plans with a rental car.

I had to get an exhaust leak fixed in AK, again, adjusted with a rental car.

Good luck with the rest.
 
And here is how this story concludes. The plane is fixed - it was indeed the valve. New valve was installed today and it's like new according to the mechanic (I'm still 2,000 miles south so couldn't confirm myself lol). I lined up a ferry pilot to bring the plane to me. He was excited for the trip, I was excited to being able to fly home. I called up Hertz to let them know that I would drop off the car in Florida and they told me "oops, the location you rented from is a franchise - you'll have to return it in ND." I expected it would be a fee or whatever, but nope, they won't let me return the car anywhere other than the ND location. Hertz isn't necessarily Hertz apparently. Biggest take aways from this:

1. Florida is much nicer than Canada in the winter and even worth a 30+ hour drive.
2. Old planes need extra attention from time to time.
3. Don't rent cars at Hertz... Seriously, I've been a Gold member with them for 10 years but every single time I rent with them, there is something. I should just stop renting from them and stand in line at another rental company (the Gold card allows me to skip the line at Hertz - I think that's my only perk haha).
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I called up Hertz to let them know that I would drop off the car in Florida and they told me "oops, the location you rented from is a franchise - you'll have to return it in ND." I expected it would be a fee or whatever, but nope, they won't let me return the car anywhere other than the ND location. Hertz isn't necessarily Hertz apparently.
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So how are you going to handle this sticky situation?
 
I think all the rental companies are lousy these days. Enterprise isn't great, but better than Hertz. I speak from experience with the local ones here, maybe they're better somewhere else.
 
Haha so far so good. They did give me a really nice car and brand new, had like 1,000 miles on it... When I asked them if I can drop it in Florida, the manager was like "oh, she gave you the brand new car"... and I thought to myself "ain't gonna be brand new after this trip" (has nearly 4,000 miles by now and I'm still in Florida). They must have thought I just rent it to run about town while waiting for the plane to get fixed. Good thing it's unlimited milage.

I agree, most car rental companies suck. I used to only rent Hertz when I had to rent cars often due to work. That was 10 years ago. Then, I had no need for car rentals for a good while and whenever I needed one occasionally, I just rented with the cheapest provider. Never been a pleasant experience, no matter which provider I chose. Since I started traveling by GA, my rental car needs increased again so I updated my Hertz gold membership. It is somewhat convenient because they'll bring the car to the FBO, pick it up from the FBO, at counters (when not picking up at an FBO) I can skip the lines, no need to bring your card (it's in their system), no need to argue with them when trying to decline all coverages (it's in my profile that I decline them all, so they don't ask) and I ALWAYS get an upgrade. I book a mid sized car and always get a mid sized or large SUV at no extra cost. BUT, I've had one too many issues with Hertz so I guess I'll try one of the other companies next time around.
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
Ferry pilot wouldn’t drive it back for a fee?
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I didn't bother asking. The car needs to be returned by next Saturday and the ferry pilot wouldn't be able to pick up the plane until this Monday at the earliest. With all the weather forecasted throughout the week, I doubt he'd be able to fly down here and drive back 2,000 miles all by Saturday. We're heading back tomorrow with no rush. Arrive in ND whenever we arrive, drop the car and then fly to Arkansas to see family for a few days HOPEFULLY without any further issues. I've done plenty of trips in GA planes in Canada, pretty much from as far west as Vancouver to as far east as Winnipeg with no issues. Now I got hit with two maintenance issues two trips in a row. It's got to stop at some point lol.
 
It really ****es me off when locations brand as being part of a chain, like Hertz here or UPS stores, but then if you want to use some kind of chain service they pull out the "nah, we're just a franchise" BS.

It should be illegal as deceptive advertising.

I rented a car from Avis in Alaska using a company discount. All good until I showed up to collect it. "Oh, we're not a full Avis location and our owner says we can't accept discounts, if you want the car it'll be triple the price". At least it only 20 minutes on the phone for the "real" Avis to refund the difference.
 
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