Tesla Trolling

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by denverpilot, May 20, 2018.

  1. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    Not just that. I looked at what it would take to drive one from my home to Denver.

    My F150: 1 fuel stop, 15 minutes tops. Enough gas left for a few days of driving around.

    Tesla: Minimum 3 stops, 30 minutes each, adds an hour and 15 minutes to the trip. That assumes a 30 minute charge will get at least 75% of the range circles displayed... but I suspect there might be an extra stop in there.

    They're cool cars, and if we didn't regularly drive long distances it might be appealing... but I think there are several reasons you don't see as many in "flyover country" just yet.
     
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  2. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Exactly, it's not economical, friendly to the environmental, a real performance car, it's a status symbol.

    After enoug time, presuming the company is still around and people can afford to change the old batteries, once these become affordable for the blue collar people you'll see the rich folks will buy something else.

    Remember the following the Prius had, same thing, just now that the average person can buy one and they arnt elite enough, you have a tesla.
     
  3. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Not a thing in Marin County is green. That’s the place with the worst case of fake rich guilt anyone’s ever seen. LOL.

    And they certainly can’t be seen driving the Chevy that won car of the year from Motor Trend. :) Chevy??? LOL.
     
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  4. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    This is not true unfortunately. It's a myth that came from Nissan originally for an advertising campaign for the Leaf in 2011.

    Its basis is that a refinery is 83% efficient. Since a gallon of gasoline contains 33.7 kWh of energy, 33.7/0.83 = 40.6 kWh input, ergo it takes 40.6 - 33.7 = 6.9 kWh. Right?

    Except this is not correct. First, of all, this is energy, not electricity. Any EV proponent will be very quick to point out that you can't actually take 7 kWh worth of oil and convert it to 7 kWh of electricity. The most efficient internal combustion engine will only give you about 3.5 kWh worth. Second to that, some of these losses are not even energy that is consumed (mostly heat for the refining process), but unusable ore and other losses inside the refinery. You can't just take e.g. 7 kWh of e.g. solar energy and refine a gallon of gasoline at 100% efficiency - it doesn't work like that.

    IIRC: The actual amount of electricity used to refine a gallon of gasoline is less than 1 kWh. Granted, if you don't actually burn up part of the oil for heat you'd need more electricity than that, sure. But it won't be more than 3.5kWh worth. It's not nothing (a Model 3 can drive 14 miles on 3.5 kWh), but it's not 7 kWh either.
     
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  5. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Not if the maid or pool guy can afford to buy one ;)
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  6. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    How many times do you drive from Omaha to Denver (or equivalent) and back a year? Let's say it's 3 times. At 3 hours of stopping for both ways = 9 hours per year. The rest of the year you charge at home. Plugging in at home takes around 5 seconds (I've timed it) - or 30 minutes per year if you do it once per day. So 9.5 hours per year.

    Compare that to how often do you refuel your F150 per year? You say every few days at 15 minutes top. Let's say once every 7 days. 52 weeks x 15 minutes = 13 hours per year.

    And the 30 minutes you stop when you're on a road trip, is in the middle of 5 hours of driving anyway. It's a much more natural stop than when you have to take a 15 detour out of your way in the morning during a work week to fill up before you can actually start your day.


    And I know you won't believe me until you experience it for yourself, but you as the driver will be less tired at the end of your trip with the longer stops on a road trip. I used to dread driving Seattle to San Francisco (800 miles) in a day in my Highlander - especially because the passengers always suffer from get-there-itis. In my Tesla I don't mind that trip at all anymore - even though it takes 2 hours longer. And my passengers can't really argue against the stops.
     
  7. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I would think that it would be possible to look up the relevant data for power plants, power distribution systems, batteries, electric motors, gasoline distribution systems, and internal combustion engines without relying on sources that have an axe to grind.
     
  8. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Also - I'm no environmental nut (my other car is a F350), and Tesla certainly has faults.

    It's expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, and even a fender bender that damages a quarter panel can cause a write-off. The creature comforts are nowhere near that of a BMW or Mercedes. And the Icon-like sales agreement is cringeworthy - Tesla can cut off your SuperCharger access if you do your own salvage restore or some modifications.

    BUT, charging and charge stops, in this day and age, is the least of your worries. This is provided you can charge at home. Even 110V is fine. If you're not able to charge at home most of the year, you should not buy an EV in any way, shape, or form.
     
  9. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Talk about rich white boy problems.

    Most of the blue collar US can't afford to blow that extra time sipping martinis or eating free range beef while we wait for our $100,000.00 car to charge for hours and hours during our drive, though most of blue collar America isnt commuting from overpriced Seattle or overprice SFO, this makes zero sense unless you have tons of excess cash to blow.
     
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  10. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    My favorite is "you'll be more rested if you stop 3 times for half an hour anyway" lol. No, I'll be more rested when I can sit at my destination and relax for an extra hour and a half with the people I was traveling to see in the first place.
     
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  11. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    I think you're thinking of cobalt. Lithium mining is nothing. You take brine and pump it into a salt pan, wait a few months for the water to evaporate and then scrape up the lithium salt. Rinse and repeat.

    Cobalt mining is nasty for many reason. Yes, we should stop using that.
     
  12. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    and the power to recharge the tesla, that's comes from like sparkle infused unicorn farts?
     
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  13. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Anybody else notice how many car models end in S, E, or X? :rofl:

    The thing I like best about the Tesla is that it has the same first three letters as "testosterone." ;)
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  14. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you want to talk about thumbs on scales, let's consider the thumbs on both sides. It could be argued that the size of the U.S. military effectively subsidizes the petroleum industry.
     
  15. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    You would think so, but it's not. But I also know you won't believe me. I wouldn't have believed me until after I did it a few times either.

    San Francisco to Seattle for me used to be I crawl out of the car after 13 hours, shower, and dive straight into bed. Now the trip takes 15 hours, but the last couple of times I fired up a barbecue after I arrived...

    I also know I'm not unique in this - this is the same experience echo'd by many other people. It's counter-intuitive but it works.
     
  16. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    But you were comparing a $100,000.00 car to a commute in a unibody medium of the line economy front wheel drive Toyota minivan/car.

    Compare the tesla to a brand new S500, or 5 series, A8L, or that diesel supercar I posted.
     
  17. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Most of my stops consist out of taking my dogs out for a walk and grabbing a coffee.

    There are many other 800 mile stretches of road this applies to that's not down the west coast. Fine - Seattle to Billings, MT if you so wish - also have done that trip many times before in both my Tesla my F350. Same thing applies. F350 is faster overall, but with the stops, you arrive more rested in the Tesla.
     
  18. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Again a 100k car to a big diesel truck, theres a guy on another form that just got done restoring a tank that he has like six figures in, I'd wager your tesla is also a less tiring 800mi drive than his tank.

    Let's talk a new S500 or another 6 figure sports sedan.
     
  19. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    I wouldn't discount Tesla, but the competition is significant, with good products that are getting better, and there isn't any "secret sauce" - Tesla doesn't have a meaningful tech edge. Sort of like Bitcoin, in a way - there will be large numbers of electric cars (and block chain currency) in common use, but will Tesla/Bitcoin be the dominant players?

    Right now, and near-mid-term, electric cars are a niche, only practical for some folks in specific circumstances; fossil fuels are just far more efficient, re-fueling is so much easier, and acquisition costs for gas-powered vehicles is much lower. And Bitcoin is much more a spec investment, vice a currency in regular and widespread use. More like gold than dollars, really.
     
  20. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I gave up driving non-stop from the Bay Area to Seattle years before I took up flying. It just got to be too grueling.
     
  21. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    LOL. I think it’s more funny that it’s named after a genius who bilked millions out of investors with no return.

    Which, was what this thread was about. Not how well rested one may or may not be after a cross country drive. LOL.
     
  22. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Challenge accepted.

    So much humor in life, so little time.

    Close your eyes and imagine the future. Does anyone with more than two brain cells talking to each other NOT think all cars will be electric? If you do, how do you think that comes about? Starting with a Fiesta equivalent? Nope big guy (and gal), its a bloody expensive thing that paves the way.

    Traveling,,,, yep, it takes more time. Just did a S. FL to DC round trip and I spent a bit more time charging then I would have fueling. Only one of the stops did my daughter and I find ourselves in the car reading a book waiting to continue. On the flip side, my car is always full in the morning and I've only needed to charge three or four times in four years of ownership when away from home during the day. That means I never go to the gas station. How much time during the year do you spend filling up during a year? Chances are good that this amount of time far exceeds that which you would spend in extra time charing on a trips.

    As for the company, has anyone here grown a company? I have and it ate every bit of cash I could lay my hands on and then some. My effort was nothing like what Musk is doing so I can not possibly imagine the ability of that animal (Tesla) to consume cash when accomplishing what they are. Sure, if all they did was spend as they are and never sell more than a handful of Model 3s they would absolutely burn to the ground. I've driven the 3; they knocked it out of the park. Tesla is an all in game of Monopoly or, better yet, Risk. They are doing it right when they spend every dime that can that efficiently moves the ball down the field.

    In addition, people miss the battery side of things. Cars are a drop in the bucket when compared to the energy side of things. Tesla's battery solution is now cost competitive with Peaker Plants. Once utilities move to batteries, they reap the benefits of more efficient baseline generation. The added side benefit is the pesky "the sun does not always shine and the wind does not always blow" problem of renewables is no longer a problem. I'd be happy if all Tesla did was kick start the other OEMs (as in, does anyone think BMW makes the I3 sooooo ugly because they just do not know how to build a good looking car?). Once that is done, the car thing will take care of itself so go concentrate on the batteries.

    As a nation we have lost the ability to think critically. The most salt of the earth defenders of America (lots of whom are pilots over the age of 40) are the ones leading the way down the tubes. America boils down to two things. One voice one vote and the rule of law. Somehow we have been convinced our vote does not count (and we believe it --- silly us) and that the best reaction to our hiring useless corrupt people to run our business (local - state - federal) is to double down and hire outwardly horrible people. Yea, my house is dirty, I'm mad about it so I'll just light it on fire. Doubling down on stupidity.

    Right, Left or Center, if you are an American then you should agree with all other Americans that one voice, one vote and the rule of law are the two things we can all agree on and defend.

    If 80% of us that vote decided all public buildings will be yellow (pick your color), they would be. Full stop. No question. You do not promise to do it and keep your promise, we put someone else in your job that will...... And yet, we got convinced our vote does not count. The smartest thing the devil ever did was convince the world he did not exist. I wish I knew who to attribute that quote to.

    If 80% of us who vote decided that money was no longer allowed in politics/public service it would go away. Not tomorrow. It took a long time to get where we are and it will take a long time to fix it but it would be fixed. Right now, people get into politics for three reasons, Power, Public Service and MONEY. We put people in Power so that one stays. Public Service is a civic duty and should be an admirable trait. Money has no place. Period. Full stop. It really is that simple.

    Have we gotten so lazy that we can not fix the simplest of problems or are we so ornery that we can not get out of our own camps to come together as an 80% plus voting block? If we are then we are too stupid for democracy.

    Hope this meets your expectations for Tesla trolling.
     
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  23. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Fair enough.

    But don't over-estimate the comfort level of the Tesla based on its price. You're mostly paying for performance at $100k. The interior of the car is more comparable to a 50k car.

    My F350 is definitely more comfortable than my Tesla. The F350 is bigger, more comfy seats with air conditioning, seat massager, better views, lane warnings, Traffic Aware Cruise Control etc. My older Model S doesn't have any of this, and I haven't taken trips in the Model 3 that's longer than 200 miles yet.

    Love driving the F350, but immediately my passengers are back to get-there-itis mode so they push me into driving for 6 hours straight or with at most a 10 minute stop, which at the end of the day makes you tired like crazy.
     
  24. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Keyser Soze! (The usual suspects).
     
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  25. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    It's not counter intuitive. It's ignoring the fact that you are giving up time you could be spending at your destination. If your goal was ultimate relaxation, you wouldn't have been traveling in the first place.
     
  26. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    The nearest charging station to me is 42 miles east. How long will it take me, leaving my home with a full charge and a full load, to reach my inlaws home 516 miles / 8 hours away? Please include number and djration of charging stops. In our Nissan Altima, it's one 10-minute gas stop and a drive-thru window.

    With good weather, I go VFR. In bad weather, I go IFR. In awful weather, I go CAR. We drove three times in the last year or so . . . . Once because I had a mag failure while flying there. So driving time for distance matters. Have yet to see an electric vehicle that can do this in one day. But a cheap used gas vehicle will make it just fine.
     
  27. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    The whole one voice one vote thing is the problem. Lots of people shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
     
  28. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Yes, but the 2 hours you spend extra at your destination won't be as rejuvenating as the 4x 30 minute stops you have on the way. You're going to end up sleeping or napping it off or just being groggy.

    Of course if this is a business trip, then everything changes and 2 hours is 2 hours and you just suck it up. But I don't know a lot of people who takes a 800 mile-a-day business trip by car. (Truck drivers excluded of course).
     
  29. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    That's ok. Take 4 days to drive it and be rejuvenated when you get there. ;)
     
  30. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    What are the two points you drive between? I assume one is Eclectic Al, what's the other one?

    Theoretically a trip of that distance can be done with a single 40 minute stop halfway through if all cards line up.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  31. Salty

    Salty Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    That's nonsense. Are you 85 years old or something?
     
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  32. LoneAspen

    LoneAspen Line Up and Wait

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    I used to live in San Jose and always used to say every other car on the road is a Mercedes or a BMW. In the past few years, I'd also add Tesla to that list. They are all over the place now.

    I was surprised when I moved back to Colorado, that I've seen a few Teslas driving around Evergreen.

    Friend of mine in Silicon Valley just leased one of the hydrogen fuel cell cars and swears by it. He's not a believer in electric cars, but likes hydrogen. I'm not sure I'd ever have one, though. I wouldn't be able to shake the feeling of driving around a Hindenburg on wheels.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  33. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Not really. It was verbatim marketing propaganda, mostly.

    I really liked the BS about getting money out of politics. LOL. You’re talking about a “business” that absconds with $1T a year in new debt by devaluing the currency, pretends to tax to pay it (not even close) at gunpoint, and buys things at the will of donors.

    I don’t think you’re going to take their money away, no matter how you vote. The published / leaked price for VIP seats at a national convention is $1.2M per seat so you can sit there and watch a rigged show. Drop some balloons. Look surprised. All that crap.

    But it was nice, as a fiction piece, if it wasn’t entirely unoriginal thought.

    Pretty cool to add the whole “no critical thinking” part in there, without responding to a single point made in the video, too. Care to?
     
  34. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Ever see a tesla on the corners or braking when put up against other high end performance cars?

    Again, for 100k you could get that diesel super car I posted, 200MPH, 0-60 in 3.7 with a 2,000mi range.

    If you want raw performance get a vette R, or a Nissan GTR, a Ford GT, or for full ground supremacy get a ultima GTR

    Long range high speed comfort get a longer wheel base AMG or M series or a A8L, Bentley etc.

    Not knocking your electric car, just saying people don't really get a tesla for the environment, for performance, for whatever, they get it because they want a tesla, which is cool if your honest about it lol
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  35. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    I'm 40. I don't think even when I was 20 I could drive 800 miles in a day without getting extremely tired. Good for you if you can!
     
  36. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    That's not an option for a 3-day holiday weekend . . .
     
  37. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I don't know what the future holds, but rechargeable vehicles are economically inferior to IC vehicles today. Where the technology lands in a decade or two? Dunno.

    However, if you know what the future holds, you should make some strategic investments and live the life of a king out in that future world.
     
  38. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Denver,
    You're my pilot (man or woman)!!!
    You are a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
    We can fix it but your too busy explaining why we can not by talking about how bad it is. Face it, we have the government we deserve. We elected them.

    "But it was nice, as a fiction piece, if it wasn’t entirely unoriginal thought."

    Never said it was. Never said I was better than anyone else. All I said was I see with clear eyes. 80% say it changes, it changes. So tough guy, why are you not on the 80% side instead of the side that watches it circle down the bowl?
     
  39. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    That's a big "if"! Right now, I can fuel up at my choice of several hundred places enroute with no preplanning. And i can decide to keep going if I don't like the looks, the location, the weather or the price. And I'm under a roof while doing it, not standing in a parking lot somewhere.

    Home in Eclectic; work in Tallassee; charging station at the Auburn Mall on the other side of Auburn. All in Alabama. Currently i buy ~12 gallons every week and a half to two weeks, unless I drive to Auburn (it's a 1/4 tank roundtrip).
     
  40. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Pre-takeoff checklist

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    kyleb,
    If you are not in the market for a Tesla price point vehicle, you are absolutely right. If you are in the market for a Tesla priced car, you are absolutely wrong (based on personal experience).