Tesla, the absolute best car!

[No Joy]

Why put in knock out plugs allowing the fire to vent?

Why put fire doors in buildings?

The knockout plug would be like a fire door. It would be closed until it is needed to be opened. With a knockout plug, the fire would probably only be vented shortly if at all before being deluged with water. It might be possible to install a flapper valve in a knockout plug so that water could easily enter, but fire would be restricted.

Why not just blast the box with water and keep it cool until the fire runs out of fuel?

As I pointed out before, that would not be a humane or safe option if someone is entrapped in or near the vehicle..

As for an automated system, no different than the engine room of every boat, or their paint locker for that matter

Copper powder suppression systems? :wink2:

Many assembly lines and many other factory environments have similar systems; CO2 and formally halon (showing my age).

I like those systems because they are often set up so they respond both automatically and manually,

 

[Henning]

Copper powder suppression systems? :wink2:

Many assembly lines and many other factory environments have similar systems; CO2 and formally halon (showing my age).

I like those systems because they are often set up so they respond both automatically and manually,

Yeah, the copper powder comes in a fire extinguisher, same as dry chem or any of the other class D materials. You plumb the bottle directly to the compartments and use an auto release valve and have a manual release function as well. None of this is rocket surgery.

 

[No Joy]

Yeah, the copper powder comes in a fire extinguisher, same as dry chem or any of the other class D materials. You plumb the bottle directly to the compartments and use an auto release valve and have a manual release function as well. None of this is rocket surgery.

So you understand my question and your response?

You are saying they use copper powder fire suppression systems on the "engine room of every boat, or their paint locker for that matter".

I thought they often used steam, inert gas, or possibly dry chemical.

Like the time they had that massive fertilizer explosion, I thought they may have used steam and water but it may have actually helped the fire escalate to an explosion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_disaster

Automatic Discharge Fire Extinguisher MA2 Series
http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/MA2-fire-extinguisher.htm

 

[Henning]

So you understand my question and your response?

You are saying they use copper powder fire suppression systems on the "engine room of every boat, or their paint locker for that matter".

I thought they often used steam, inert gas, or possibly dry chemical.

Like the time they had that massive fertilizer explosion, I thought they may have used steam and water but it may have actually helped the fire escalate to an explosion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_disaster

Automatic Discharge Fire Extinguisher MA2 Series
http://www.fireboy-xintex.com/MA2-fire-extinguisher.htm

Are you really that dense? I was referring to the automation and installed system, not the material, holy ****ing Christ....

 

[SCCutler]

I'm seeing a bunch of Tesla's on the road here in Austin, even though the state of Texas makes it almost impossible for Tesla to actually market the cars here.

Huh? You mean, "The State of Texas requires that Tesla comply with the same automobile dealer law with which every other manufacturer selling cars in the state complies?"

There is no "Anti-Tesla Law," just dealer licensing laws designed to provide some basic consumer-protection. It is not as if the law has ever been a big secret...

 

[Dead Stick]

The boss had a Volt and replaced it with a Tesla S. Yesterday he shows up in a Lexus... Not quite ready for prime time.

 

[Non Compos Mentis]

..... Tesla CEO Elon Musk is an idiot and a fraud .....

I was skimming responses, not paying attention to who is posting, but as soon as I saw this line, I instantly knew it had to be No Joy.

You don't like the Tesla,I get it. But anybody who knows the bare minimum about Elon Musk and what he has accomplished, and continues to accomplish, would not come to the conclusion that he is an idiot.

 

[Dav8or]

The boss had a Volt and replaced it with a Tesla S. Yesterday he shows up in a Lexus... Not quite ready for prime time.

Really? What about it isn't ready. If this is true, this is the first dissatisfied Tesla owner I have ever heard of anywhere.

 

[skylanerg]

I would buy one myself. Have a Chevy volt and love it but would like more range. Have driven volt 12000 miles and used 43 gal of gas. No problems whatsoever.

No problems, really?

I wouldn't single anyone out, in this thread or in the general population, but 99+% of the tree hugging/cheap ops cost crowd buying or showing interest in ecars haven't a clue.

The damage to the planet in mining, and manufacturing these batteries is nothing short of colossal !!

Serious mass production of ecars with current battery technology would be criminal.

 

[Skylane81E]

No problems, really?

I wouldn't single anyone out, in this thread or in the general population, but 99+% of the tree hugging/cheap ops cost crowd buying or showing interest in ecars haven't a clue.

The damage to the planet in mining, and manufacturing these batteries is nothing short of colossal !!

Serious mass production of ecars with current battery technology would be criminal.

You realize that lots of folks buying these things aren't "greenies" right? If I was to buy a new car tomorrow, I'd spend less in the end on a Volt than a comparable midsized gasoline only car.

 

[Henning]

People buy eCars because they get much cheaper fuel and are tired of the oil companies raping the economy, keeping us at war, and bringing terrorism to our shores. In order to match the $$$ per mile of my buddy's Mitsubishi, he'd need a petroleum powered vehicle that got over 100 mpg. The real funny thing is he had a Honda Insight hybrid (his wife still drives) before. I asked him the mpg on that and he said, "50, I know, your 76 Honda without even having over drive got that and you drove it like a maniac."

 

[Dav8or]

No problems, really?

I wouldn't single anyone out, in this thread or in the general population, but 99+% of the tree hugging/cheap ops cost crowd buying or showing interest in ecars haven't a clue.

The damage to the planet in mining, and manufacturing these batteries is nothing short of colossal !!

Serious mass production of ecars with current battery technology would be criminal.

A guy who flies around in his own personal Skylane worried about the environment. Here's a factoid- 99+% of the gasoline lovin' crudies have an axe to grind that doesn't need grinding. Seriously, give it a rest.

There are more and more people like me that don't want to buy a electric car because I think I'm saving the planet, or want to flip the bird to OPEC, or even to save imaginary money. We want a car with an electric motor/s because it is a far superior propulsion system for all forms of transportation. I want an electric car/boat/jet ski/motorcycle because it is a better vehicle and I don't care how the electricity is stored or generated.

Lithium batteries are temporary. They are not the end of the story, but they are the here and now and have proven themselves to be satisfactory for many people when installed in a car. An electric car like the Tesla would work just fine for me and I'd like one. If it doesn't work for you, that's OK, the other 99% of the automotive manufacturing world has you covered.

 

[txflyer]

Off topic, but I was pretty shocked to find out that cremation of human remains puts as much carbon in the air as running 25 cars for 24 hours.

It's just one example of how you have to dig a little to ferret out these so called 'green' scenario's.

Converting all cars and trucks to Ngas is our solution. We have more of it than anyone else.

 

[Henning]

Off topic, but I was pretty shocked to find out that cremation of human remains puts as much carbon in the air as running 25 cars for 24 hours.

It's just one example of how you have to dig a little to ferret out these so called 'green' scenario's.

Converting all cars and trucks to Ngas is our solution. We have more of it than anyone else.

It's a cheap and easy conversion as well, Australia has been on it for many years, every station has petrol and 'gas' pumps. It really only addresses the foreign aspects of the issue and the 'war for oil' and terrorism problems, economically it's hit or miss depending on the commodity pricing which is still open to manipulation by a 'free market' that doesn't work. Also in order to get the most efficiency out of it we would have to do some significant engine modifications. I'm not against it as part of a program, but it's not a long term solution by any means.

 

[Skylane81E]

Off topic, but I was pretty shocked to find out that cremation of human remains puts as much carbon in the air as running 25 cars for 24 hours.

It's just one example of how you have to dig a little to ferret out these so called 'green' scenario's.

Converting all cars and trucks to Ngas is our solution. We have more of it than anyone else.

Now devils advocate, the carbon released from your body when burned is a zero net to the environment, now if we use fossil fuels to get you hot enough it is still technically zero net, but the time scale goes from a few decades to a few hundred million years. Wood fired furnaces are about as "green" as you can get from a carbon standpoint

 

[txflyer]

It's a cheap and easy conversion as well, Australia has been on it for many years, every station has petrol and 'gas' pumps. It really only addresses the foreign aspects of the issue and the 'war for oil' and terrorism problems, economically it's hit or miss depending on the commodity pricing which is still open to manipulation by a 'free market' that doesn't work. Also in order to get the most efficiency out of it we would have to do some significant engine modifications. I'm not against it as part of a program, but it's not a long term solution by any means.

As if the electricity to charge a Tesla is not open to market manipulation?

With reserves of over 200 years, I can't see how you can say Ngas is not a long term solution.....

I'll bet if you put it in terms of miles per pollutant coming out of the tailpipe, I'll bet Ngas would beat electricity. Because you must first burn Ngas or something else to generate electricity. With all of electricity's line loss, eddy currents, and that type of inefficiencies, I'll bet burning Ngas straight up in the car would beat it on a financial scale, and a pollutant scale.

 

[Henning]

As if the electricity to charge a Tesla is not open to market manipulation?

With reserves of over 200 years, I can't see how you can say Ngas is not a long term solution.....

I'll bet if you put it in terms of miles per pollutant coming out of the tailpipe, I'll bet Ngas would beat electricity. Because you must first burn Ngas or something else to generate electricity. With all of electricity's line loss, eddy currents, and that type of inefficiencies, I'll bet burning Ngas straight up in the car would beat it on a financial scale, and a pollutant scale.

You can produce electricity locally and regionally with solar, wind, and hydroelectric projects from the household to forecourt size ranges so there are more options.

 

[txflyer]

You can produce electricity locally and regionally with solar, wind, and hydroelectric projects from the household to forecourt size ranges so there are more options.

You can also buy a pump for much less than solar to put in your garage to charge an Ngas car using the infrastructure we already have in place.

Why we are not aggressively pursing this is beyond me ....

I suspect as usual, politics muck it up.

 

[Henning]

You can also buy a pump for much less than solar to put in your garage to charge an Ngas car using the infrastructure we already have in place.

Why we are not aggressively pursing this is beyond me ....

I suspect as usual, politics muck it up.

If you mean the 'politics of the Seven Sisters' that we have been living with since the beginning of the last century, you would be correct.

 

[Everskyward]

It's technology so nothing is going to be all that "green". Even bicycles have manufactured parts. It you want to be totally green you can walk, barefoot, and have a sky burial. Google it if you don't know what a sky burial is.

Obviously there are degrees of green but it's probably difficult to figure out.

 

[Henning]

I told my ex if anything happened to me just toss me in the back corner of the pasture with everything else that dies on the ranch and let the coyotes and mountain lion have me. Everything gets picked clean pretty quick.

 

[txflyer]

I told my ex if anything happened to me just toss me in the back corner of the pasture with everything else that dies on the ranch and let the coyotes and mountain lion have me. Everything gets picked clean pretty quick.

Around here, the buzzards get your eyes and all the soft tissue, then your bones and sinew are converted to wild hog **** and fire ant food pretty quick. :wink2:

 

[Dav8or]

You can also buy a pump for much less than solar to put in your garage to charge an Ngas car using the infrastructure we already have in place.

Why we are not aggressively pursing this is beyond me ....

I suspect as usual, politics muck it up.

It's a similar situation to electric. You can do a conversion right now. If you don't want to do a conversion, Honda will sell you a Civic ready to go right now complete with a home charging station.

Problem is- There is is just less energy density in natural gas than there is in gasoline. IIRC, the Honda Civic gets right around 100 miles range. If that's enough for you to go do whatever and then get back home, then great, but just like the electric cars, people see the lack of infrastructure and the inconvenience and get range anxiety.

Honda has had this car out for years, if not a decade by now and besides municipalities and a few industries that could use a cheap to run, but short range vehicle, nobody buys them. Of course conversion kits for just about any car have been around for decades. In the '70s and early '80s my Dad drove his Cadillacs on dual fuel Propane conversion kits for over a decade. Saved a lot of money and the engines lasted well past 300K every time. His commute was over 100 miles everyday for decades, so economy was king. He was so cheap, that he used to use an external oil filter that used toilet paper rolls instead of the spin on filters. Easily changed them and more frequently, but for just pennies. The propane kit is about the same for natural gas, just you won't go as far.

If you like the idea, do it. It is well within your reach.

 

[No Joy]

If this is true, this is the first dissatisfied Tesla owner I have ever heard of anywhere.

According to the complaint record, the owner contacted Tesla, and an engineer stated that the "accelerating pedal was stepped on and it accelerated from 18% to 100% in split second" (sic). The complaint then goes on to state that the engineer also claimed the existence of a "built-in safe-guard that the accelerator could not go beyond 92%. The statements are contradictory."

Tesla Model S Unintended Acceleration Complaint Filed With NHTSA
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ended-acceleration-complaint-filed-with-nhtsa

As skeptics suspected and many alleged owners claim; range falls significantly short of claims touted by manufacture.
“It’s not 300 (miles), and it’s not 250, it’s just not going to happen,” he says. “It’s fair to say 200 to 230 max
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/six-months-tesla-model-good-bad-glitchy-150916137.html

Dealerships say Tesla “misleading” consumers on car costs
Car dealerships complain that Tesla's site obfuscates pricing, confuses consumers
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...-say-tesla-misleading-consumers-on-car-costs/

California new car dealers claim Tesla violates advertising laws
http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...aim-tesla-violations-20130916,0,3708769.story

Tesla Recalls 1,228 Model S Sedans for Badly Welded Seat Mounting Bracket
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/06/tesla-recalls-1228-model-s-sedans-for.html

Tesla Battery Fiasco Shows 'It's Never The Event, It's The Cover-Up'
http://seekingalpha.com/article/395...co-shows-its-never-the-event-its-the-cover-up

“It’s A Brick” – Tesla Motors’ Devastating Design Problem
http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-tesla-motors-devastating-design

Tesla loses Top Gear lawsuit
http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk/blog/index.php/2012/02/27/tesla-loses-top-gear-lawsuit/

Top Gear reviews Tesla Roadster
http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-gear-reviews-tesla-roadster_206233.htm

 

[txflyer]

It's a similar situation to electric. You can do a conversion right now. If you don't want to do a conversion, Honda will sell you a Civic ready to go right now complete with a home charging station.

Problem is- There is is just less energy density in natural gas than there is in gasoline. IIRC, the Honda Civic gets right around 100 miles range. If that's enough for you to go do whatever and then get back home, then great, but just like the electric cars, people see the lack of infrastructure and the inconvenience and get range anxiety.

Honda has had this car out for years, if not a decade by now and besides municipalities and a few industries that could use a cheap to run, but short range vehicle, nobody buys them. Of course conversion kits for just about any car have been around for decades. In the '70s and early '80s my Dad drove his Cadillacs on dual fuel Propane conversion kits for over a decade. Saved a lot of money and the engines lasted well past 300K every time. His commute was over 100 miles everyday for decades, so economy was king. He was so cheap, that he used to use an external oil filter that used toilet paper rolls instead of the spin on filters. Easily changed them and more frequently, but for just pennies. The propane kit is about the same for natural gas, just you won't go as far.

If you like the idea, do it. It is well within your reach.

We had a propane/gasoline switchable pickup in the 70's like your Dad's Caddy. I'm familiar with the conversion kit and how to run and setup a vehicle and fill the bottle etc ... I just haven't done it because it's a hassle. I suspect that's why a lot of people don't.

What's lacking like you point out is more infrastructure. We have a base of transmission and distribution pipelines in and around the country we could grow that is already in place. Adding to that would seem like a good start.

When we can put a charging station at every gas stop, and make it fast and easy like gas, that's when you would see it grow. And that's possible. We just won't do it until $7-$8 gasoline hits us in the ass for good. Like all big changes, they don't happen until the crisis is at everyone's doorstep.

Oh, and as far as less power, yes, ngas and propane don't give you quite as much power, but who cares whether you can go 100mph or just 90mph top speed? As long as it goes 70, and the A/C blows, and that little honey sitting next to you is smiling in that pickup seat, ... yeah buddy! :wink2:

 

[denverpilot]

Tesla is obviously a military-grade vehicle that performs better than it's counterparts. It must be banned as an Assault Vehicle.

No one "needs" such a vehicle and some nutjob will certainly commit suicide in one or crash into someone else killing them while disobeying the law.

The National Tesla Association is evil because they only care about the profits of Tesla Motors.

At least create some Tesla Free Zones to make all the children safe from the Tesla scourge and wicked Tesla drivers who might crash into school buildings, and limit the batteries on board to only short bursts of a block or two before they need a recharge.

Think of the children!

 

[el con]

Tesla is obviously a military-grade vehicle that performs better than it's counterparts. It must be banned as an Assault Vehicle.

No one "needs" such a vehicle and some nutjob will certainly commit suicide in one or crash into someone else killing them while disobeying the law.

The National Tesla Association is evil because they only care about the profits of Tesla Motors.

At least create some Tesla Free Zones to make all the children safe from the Tesla scourge and wicked Tesla drivers who might crash into school buildings, and limit the batteries on board to only short bursts of a block or two before they need a recharge.

Think of the children!

 

[bnt83]

I need something like an electric 4 wheel drive ATV for my short commute, not a $40k something.

 

[skylanerg]

He was so cheap, that he used to use an external oil filter that used toilet paper rolls instead of the spin on filters. Easily changed them and more frequently, but for just pennies.

My dad installed the Frantz oil filter on the Duster in the 60's. IIRC a great concept/design with many advantages. I sometimes wonder why it didn't take off - it did just ok sales. As a youngin I remember watching dad unwind the toilet paper roll to make a good fit. What are the disadvantages?

 

[Dav8or]

My dad installed the Frantz oil filter on the Duster in the 60's. IIRC a great concept/design with many advantages. I sometimes wonder why it didn't take off - it did just ok sales. As a youngin I remember watching dad unwind the toilet paper roll to make a good fit. What are the disadvantages?

Well, I don't think is as good a filter as the spin on, or cartridge type, so if you do use this filter, you should change more often, but I think the biggest drawback is mess. It's a real mess changing the rolls. In the end, you say the hell with the savings and go back to the factory system. I know my Dad did.

 

[el con]

Oh I'm not so sure about that a 70 or 71 Olds 442 convertible comes pretty close!:wink2:

Adam
Your pretty close on your statement. My Dad had a 71 Cutlass S Conv. the next step up was the W31 442 that we couldn't talk him into.

 

[el con]

Maybe we skip the big dangerous batteries and go with the same concept as slot cars. Electric grid in roads, heck if we can afford Obamacare what the heck lets just print more money for this to.
Small battery while you're off the grid hop back on and drive while you charge,
small gas motor to get to the grid as backup when the small battery dies prematurely.

 

[lolachampcar]

Ok, so who of those that are commenting on Model S own one or more of them?

For me, its stock, mine and my wife's.

There is enough misinformation in this thread to sink a battleship. One poster even searched the web for every possible negative (Faux News) type piece he/she could find.

I know I'm throwing fuel on my first post but a forum for pilots was the last place I thought I would see this kind of stuff.

 

[el con]

Ok, so who of those that are commenting on Model S own one or more of them?

For me, its stock, mine and my wife's.

There is enough misinformation in this thread to sink a battleship. One poster even searched the web for every possible negative (Faux News) type piece he/she could find.

I know I'm throwing fuel on my first post but a forum for pilots was the last place I thought I would see this kind of stuff.

We ramble on all kinds of stuff in the Hanger.
Good to hear that you're happy with your two.
When they develop e cars for my mission, in our countries varied climates and the complete infrastructure to handle them. Pik ups ,tow vehicles, semi trucks, etc I will then consider them.
I'm 62, I may not live that long. Tesla is for sure at the forefront.
Some of us old guys just haven't figured out how we are going to Hot Rod these things yet:wink2: Hand wind our own motors maybe? Hipo voltage regulators?
It took what 120 years to get where we are today with gas cars, I figure they have been working on electric for maybe 30 years now maybe they'll be ready to take over in another 30. IMHO of course.

 

[Henning]

We ramble on all kinds of stuff in the Hanger.
Good to hear that you're happy with your two.
When they develop e cars for my mission, in our countries varied climates and the complete infrastructure to handle them. Pik ups ,tow vehicles, semi trucks, etc I will then consider them.
I'm 62, I may not live that long. Tesla is for sure at the forefront.
Some of us old guys just haven't figured out how we are going to Hot Rod these things yet:wink2: Hand wind our own motors maybe? Hipo voltage regulators?
It took what 120 years to get where we are today with gas cars, I figure they have been working on electric for maybe 30 years now maybe they'll be ready to take over in another 30. IMHO of course.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ukLgsGEzs&desktop_uri=/watch?v=2_ukLgsGEzs

 

[Henning]

Oh, and Garlits is getting in on the act as well....

http://dragillustrated.com/garlits-gets-new-body-for-electric-dragster/

 

[Non Compos Mentis]

I know I'm throwing fuel on my first post but a forum for pilots was the last place I thought I would see this kind of stuff.

Welcome!

I'm beginning to think that "No Joy" is a brilliant person in Tesla's marketing department.

Making outlandish comments on a pilot's forum, where most readers have above-average income, resulting in several people defending Tesla as a great car.

How else can one get so many positive comments like that? Brilliant!

 

[Skip Miller]

It took what 120 years to get where we are today with gas cars, I figure they have been working on electric for maybe 30 years now maybe they'll be ready to take over in another 30. IMHO of course.

Electric cars have been around for a lot longer than that. It is just that they were overwhelmed by the ready supply of cheap gasoline and the poor state of battery science.

For example:

The years 1899 and 1900 were the high point of electric cars in America, as they outsold all other types of cars.

but...

One example was the 1902 Phaeton built by the Woods Motor Vehicle Company of Chicago, which had a range of 18 miles, a top speed of 14 mph and cost $2,000.

Both quotes from Wikipedia page on the history of electric cars.

-Skip

 

[No Joy]

But anybody who knows the bare minimum about Elon Musk and what he has accomplished, and continues to accomplish, would not come to the conclusion that he is an idiot.

Ignorant people would be more likely not to think of him as ignorant. That's why Tesla seems to want to keep people knowing the bare minimum.

That's why people that know more than the minimum that is selectively provided by Tesla, are more likely to think he is ignorant.


I agree with the firefighters, that claimed the lithium fire intensified when they initially tried to use water. Allegedly the CEO of Tesla sent out an e-mail blaming the firefighters. Allegedly Tesla CEO Elon Musk claimed that firefighters should have used water.


From an alleged e-mail from the Tesla CEO Elon Musk:

For the Model S lithium-ion battery, it was correct to apply water (vs. dry chemical extinguisher), but not to puncture the metal firewall

http://evworld.com/blogs.cfm?authorid=12&blogid=1171


When firefighters used water like Tesla CEO Elon Musk allegedly suggested, the fire intensified.

When firefighters went against the alleged advice of Tesla CEO Elon Musk, to cut a hole in the firewall so they could deluge the battery with water, they successfully put out the fire.

It gives me the impression that the Tesla CEO Elon Musk is an idiot and a fraud trying to scapegoat emergency responders.


Tesla Motors sued by transmission supplier Magna
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/16/tables-turned-tesla-motors-sued-by-transmission-supplier-magna/

Tesla Motors loses trade secrets case against Fisker
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10082062-54.html

 

[PilotGreene]

I might as well step into this mess for my first post too.

Pilots are heavily represented as Tesla Model S owners and for good reason.
1. You get to do some flight planning figuring out range (although at 265 miles of range, daily commuting does not take much planning. Just plug in when you get home).
2. The acceleration is not unlike giving it full throttle on your takeoff roll. Except they acceleration is NOW rather than a few seconds after you advance the throttle. 4.x to 5.x second 0-60 times depending on model.
3. The 17" screen (which can be split in two) has a feel of a glass cockpit. It has Slacker for music, road map/GPS with traffic, and web access as long as you are in cell coverage area. all for FREE. I have weather maps and TAF Data Access as two of my web favorites. Pretty nice to have at a glance when you are thinking about flying.
4. The whole car is well thought out and well engineered and darn good looking. The car handles like a dream. Software updates pushed right to your car.
5. Driving the car reminds me of the fun of flying. I enjoy my commute, just like I enjoy flying to a destination.
6. The cost is familiar - similar to buying a used 172 or 182 :wink2: In the 60's for a stripped down base model to over 100k for the fastest version if you add all options.

Pilots are generally pretty bright. Do some research and come to your own conclusions. Test drive one as part of your research. You can thank me later.

Full disclosure: Not a TSLA shareholder, just a happy Tesla customer.