Tesla stock plunge continues after Model S battery fire
- Thread starter No Joy
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JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
Most companies that fail, fail because of under-capitalization. Regardless of what you think about Elon Musk, I don't think that will be his problem.
Battery technology is improving, but there will be bumps in the road. Just ask the engineers and marketers at Boeing. There is no doubt that Tesla represents a risk to the investor, but then again, the potential rewards may be rather huge.
Musk said his next idea is to manufacture a Ford F-150 type truck. Those types of vehicles are where the bulk of the profits come from due to volume and margin. I would be long on this company if I were younger.
Battery technology is improving, but there will be bumps in the road. Just ask the engineers and marketers at Boeing. There is no doubt that Tesla represents a risk to the investor, but then again, the potential rewards may be rather huge.
Musk said his next idea is to manufacture a Ford F-150 type truck. Those types of vehicles are where the bulk of the profits come from due to volume and margin. I would be long on this company if I were younger.
Silvaire
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Silvaire
Similar to the hidden benefits of Alzheimer's - you're always meeting new friends and you can hide your own Easter eggs.
Maxmosbey
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I need to get serious.
If you can't afford to own Tesla then you shouldn't invest in it. Tesla is for big boys, not anyone who just checks the "conservative" box in the risk tolerance questionnaire and lets someone else take care of the rest. The game is still on.
el con
Line Up and Wait
I was into electric cars way back in the 60's---- Aurora and tyco 
If they would just put a pin for the slot on the Tesla(and others) and imbed conductors in the road--- battery problem solved.
Then they would be big boy "toys"
If they would just put a pin for the slot on the Tesla(and others) and imbed conductors in the road--- battery problem solved.
Then they would be big boy "toys"
I was into electric cars way back in the 60's---- Aurora and tyco
If they would just put a pin for the slot on the Tesla(and others) and imbed conductors in the road--- battery problem solved.
Then they would be big boy "toys"
It would also help with population control of people and animals as the voltages and amperages would have to be pretty high for an effective system.
Elon Musk caught in another lie? A few days ago Elon Musk claimed that there would not be a recall, which suggested that he did not want an investigation and suggested Tesla would be defiant any would be investigation if the investigation determined a recall was necessary. Elon Musk seemed to be trying to influence any would-be investigators, and clients. Elon Musk seems to be in spin mode and worse.
Feds investigate Tesla fires: Elon Musk's idea? NHTSA disputes that
http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...-probe-20131118,0,7392997.story#axzz2l7WaTXXw
Feds investigate Tesla fires: Elon Musk's idea? NHTSA disputes that
http://www.latimes.com/business/aut...-probe-20131118,0,7392997.story#axzz2l7WaTXXw
How many deaths/injuries are attributable to Tesla battery fires? How many deaths/injuries are attributable to all electric/hybrid car battery fires? Compare those statistics across each million miles driven with the same of gasoline powered vehicle fires. Which number is greater?
Tesla seems to revise some poor decisions to make them better. Tesla seems to be alluding to the possibility that there might be a problem with battery safety. It seems they have sent out a software update, that increases the ride height (road clearance) at some higher speeds. It seems that most or all tesla S have computer-controlled air suspension. Tesla seems to be copying some of the ideas from other manufacturers. Ground hugging is often better for efficiency, and sometimes helps from getting airborne, however is more likely to receive road damage. Tesla owners are already complaining about the ride characteristics that aren't quite as good at the higher settings, however the higher settings reduce the odds of striking road debris. Tesla seems to suggest that sometime in the future the company may allow customers to set their own settings.
Tesla reverses recall decision over Model S fires
Elon Musk sends out a message to the Telserati. Will change all Model S suspension settings immediately and include fires under warranty. Musk asks for NHTSA’s help with investigation.
http://www.torquenews.com/1083/tesla-reverses-recall-decision-over-model-s-fires
Increasing the ride height is not a full-blown fix, but it is a stopgap measure. Hopefully it won't cause other safety problems.
Tesla reverses recall decision over Model S fires
Elon Musk sends out a message to the Telserati. Will change all Model S suspension settings immediately and include fires under warranty. Musk asks for NHTSA’s help with investigation.
http://www.torquenews.com/1083/tesla-reverses-recall-decision-over-model-s-fires
Increasing the ride height is not a full-blown fix, but it is a stopgap measure. Hopefully it won't cause other safety problems.
mirage00
Pattern Altitude
I would think that raising the ride height significantly enough to avoid road debris damage would have a negative affect on stability and economy.
I would think that raising the ride height significantly enough to avoid road debris damage would have a negative affect on stability and economy.
Economy possibly some, but this can be overcome to a large degree by modifying the body panels. The need could also be overcome by switching to titanium from aluminum for the battery box. Stability differences would only be noticeable at the high speed end of the performance envelope and would not be drastic or unsafe in any normal usage at legally acceptable speeds. Adding an automatic copper type extinguisher to the battery box would have a minimal effect on weight and performance.
mirage00
Pattern Altitude
+1
I think having an automatic extinguishing device onboard would go a long way to satisfying the fire concern.
The fire concern due to the nature of a lithium battery fire is not an immediate safety concern really, it's an economic one.
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
Tesla Motors, Inc. Stock Quote & Summary Data
$126.09
*
4.51
3.71%
Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla#ixzz2l8GbMJul
$126.09
*
4.51
3.71%
Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla#ixzz2l8GbMJul
That's part of the point I'm making. You can't have everything. Raising the height significantly would also probably change the alignment. Many Tesla owners already have a problem with tire wear.I would think that raising the ride height significantly enough to avoid road debris damage would have a negative affect on stability and economy.
Tesla fanatics are such hypocrites. Tesla fanatics were so eager to point out the battery fires in Chevy Volt's crash test as a safety issue, and tout the Tesla and its battery as safe. Yet in the real world Chevy volt apparently hasn't had any battery fires. After Tesla had its first battery fire, the public was reassured by his Tesla fanatics that it was a fluke. Yet five weeks later there has been two more Tesla battery fires. The Tesla in Mexico is even on video exploding. Now all of a sudden Tesla fanatics want to claim that battery fires are not an immediate safety concern. The Tesla fanatics make crazy arguments.
Tesla fanatics claim that after the Teslas that ran over road debris the computer warning the driver greatly enhanced safety by telling the Tesla drivers to pull over.
Are all Tesla owners so mentally deficient, that they need a computer to give an audio warning to pull over after hitting a large object in the road? I don't think people should be driving, if they're not smart enough to pull over after hitting a hard metal object at high speed, causing a loud sound like a gunshot, causing the vehicle to lurch up in the air and have drivability issues.
The Tesla (e-Pinto) has a reputation of catching on fire after running over road debris and having crashes. Not the Chevy Volt.
I get the impression that a lot of Tesla owners aren't that bright and get lax with safety, because they feel invulnerable because of the safety hype. A Tesla driver was speeding crossed over into oncoming traffic and killed two people. The Tesla may have been safe for the driver, but not for the two people that Tesla driver and the Tesla killed.
I wonder if that crash has been investigated to see if there are elements of the Tesla design that are more dangerous to other vehicles and their occupants.
Tesla Driver Charged with Manslaughter in Canyon Crash
http://www.lagunabeachindy.com/2013/11/18/tesla-driver-charged-manslaughter-canyon-crash/
If nobody cares, then how come your panties are in a wad?
So you don't care that some of the practices of Tesla are jeopardizing the company and investors monies? So you think no one cares about their investment. To some people that might be what they are depending on for their retirement. Don't you think some investors might be concerned that some of Tesla management is dumping their Tesla stock? It's as if some of Tesla's management suspects that Tesla might not go up much and might not survive.
I've noticed that most people only want to see one side of the issue.
Now days that's the easiest way to have an intelligent & civilized conversation. :wink2: Though even those moments are fleeting.
The Chevy Volt carries gasoline onboard making fires a bit more risky, but not so much it concerns me. Personally I'd buy the Chevy Volt before the Tesla.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
I owned a 2007 carrera S. Used with 14000 miles. Drove it for 10000 miles, it also was very hard on rear tires mainly due to the design of the car. It also would have had BIG problems if one ran over something hard in the road. It was a high maintence car with main seal problems, etc. but......a lot of fun to drive. I had always wanted a porsche and finally bought this one in 2009 when porsche dealers were on their knees due to economy. Sold it a year later for same amount I purchased it for. Easy to kill yourself if you didn't pay close attention to speed , curves, etc. my wife really liked it too. Sold it for what I paid for it and bought a Prius V which I have 15000 miles on and really like it. 44 miles to gallon, Comfotable, lots of room, wife likes it also. The doctor in the Telsa may have driven beyond his cap abilitys as is sometimes the case in aircraft.( Years ago the bonanza was known as the "doctor killer). Elon Musk is a bright dude and will prevail I think. Maybe even as bright as the fellow bad mouthing thinks he is.
Despite having both gasoline and battery-powered, so far I don't know of any cases where Chevy Volts burst into flames after simply running over road debris.
When gasoline catches on fire, it's usually easier, safer and cheaper to put out the fire.
The Tesla S generally seems like a good vehicle. Though putting a lithium battery so close to the ground, with so little armor seems to be asking for trouble. It doesn't seem that much thought was put into the designs in regards to emergency responders, responding to battery fires.
Yeah, I think the ultimate answer will be to change to or retrofit a titanium or steel plate under the battery box.
JoseCuervo
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As I read thru this thread, you are about the only person making arguments, and, yes, they seem crazy.
You are thinking there should be some sort of mental standard before people can buy certain items? You might want to be careful what you ask for on that one.
I would guess many of them would have a similar impression of you. Hell, I don't even own a Tesla and I have that impression.
No panties for me, commando is the only way to go. Gotta let things swing....
Nope, I don't care one bit about the practices of Tesla and their management / and their investors. Nor do I care about Herbalife's. Nor, do I care about 3900 other public companies. I only care about the companies I hold in my portfolio. My life is too busy to care about stuff that doesn't impact me in the least.
But, let's have your disclosure. Do you own Tesla? Are you short Tesla? Or, are you just some internet nut that thinks people on an aviation forum are seeking negative information about some car manufacturer?
Many people don't care about either side of this issue.
You claim you don't care about the topic, yet it's clear by your ignorant argumentative rants that your panties are in a wad. Your posts have been ignorant and dishonest. If you didn't care about the topic, you wouldn't be posting and having a hissy fit. You only care about yourself, not about the people that were hurt by these shady practices.
Titanium probably would give very good protection, however it's probably cost prohibitive. It's been a while since I've worked with titanium, but it was quite expensive and hard to machine.
It would likely take less than $50 worth of titanium that doesn't need any particular machining, a flat plate will be fine. Drilling some mounting holes is not a particular chore.
Tesla may have violated the truth in advertising laws. Tesla and Tesla fan girls seem to have wildly exaggerated safety ratings. Did they use funky math, deliberately or ignorantly take things out of context?
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is changing its rules because of Tesla hyping the ratings. The rule changes are to discourage manufacturers from fraudulently misconstruing and misrepresenting the safety ratings.
Tesla Model S crash test ads prompt NHTSA to change rules
http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/...st-ads-prompt-nhtsa-to-change-rules-1.6473766
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is changing its rules because of Tesla hyping the ratings. The rule changes are to discourage manufacturers from fraudulently misconstruing and misrepresenting the safety ratings.
Tesla Model S crash test ads prompt NHTSA to change rules
http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/...st-ads-prompt-nhtsa-to-change-rules-1.6473766
It's been quite a few years, the parts I dealt with were fairly complex; but the finished titanium parts I dealt with were worth more than gold in their weight.
It wouldn't be a simple rectangle. I think one of the problems with the current design, as it doesn't seem to have adequate access for emergency responders. Also unlike metals can increase corrosion.
If possible I would redesign the body so emergency responders could easily deluge the battery with water and/or dry chemical.
JoseCuervo
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JoseCuervo
Nope, don't care about Teslas stock price. I have no position in the security.
Just curious why you care, and you can't seem to answer that question.
Hypocrisy. You have not answered questions honestly. You're a troll and a liar. You don't seem to be capable of having a civilized conversation.
JoseCuervo
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It should have an automatic copper system to eliminate the need for a deluge of water which is ineffective on a class D fire anyway (mostly it's to keep the surrounding materials from igniting). This would add a few hundred to the cost of the building the car.
Fixed
While the use of water can antagonize the lithium fires, the use of water can help cool neighboring cells to prevent the fire from propagating and reducing the odds of an explosion.
The Tesla in Mexico was allowed to burn, and resulted in at least one notable explosion.
Using water on a lithium fire, in some ways is similar to using water on liquid petroleum fires. It's not typically a good idea, but using proper techniques sometimes water can help control or extinguish those fires and prevent explosions.
That's why I think that there should have been provisions for professional fire fighters to have better access to the battery. There probably should be a power disconnect that firefighters can easily and quickly access. And there probably should be ductwork, so that emergency responders can quickly, easily and safely deluge the battery. During the first Tesla fire, emergency responders seemed to put themselves at unusual risk to fight the fire.
If they just install an automatic system, all that is unnecessary.
An automatic system would help. However they don't always work. Therefore there should be provisions to make it easier for emergency responders to fight battery fires. The Tesla design seems to have made it very difficult for firefighters.
You have foolishly thought that an automated fire suppression system could be slapped on the Tesla, without engineering. It would take engineering to make sure it is reasonably effective.
You seem to think that automated fire suppression systems have a perfect or near-perfect ability. If so, why are they not failsafe on aircraft?
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JoseCuervo
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I love how you get called out on your bull**** and then ignore it hoping nobody noticed.
LMAO.
LMAO.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
Ford recalling Escape for catching on fire:
http://www.electronicproducts.com/P...ake_sure_you_don_t_spontaneously_combust.aspx
13 reports of this vehicle catching fire
http://www.electronicproducts.com/P...ake_sure_you_don_t_spontaneously_combust.aspx
13 reports of this vehicle catching fire
TMetzinger
Final Approach
Well noJoy is suspended... yay...Christmas came early.
ron22
Cleared for Takeoff
Wow Cap'n looks like you are pulling a trick out of some nameless person book and posting the same stuff on every thread.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
Elon musk mentioned on TV the other night that there have been over 200 car fires in recent years in the U.S. But little mention had been made, and of course if left to burn, the gas tank would explode and did. I will bet on Elon musk to win, no joy a distant 5th or6th, ( also ran)
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Maxmosbey
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I need to get serious.
Tesla hit $200 bucks last week and I sold my stock. I didn't bail, I enjoyed owning it, but I had to free up some funds for other investments and I realized a very good profit from it. If you go by the rule buy low and sell high, Tesla had to go. I'm very interested in what it does now and I'll keep watching it. Kind of sad to see it go though.