Terrible FSS service

Bill

Bill

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Anyone else experience really terribly crappy FSS service over the weekend? Man, really bad.
 
Ya know, I've been waiting to get poor service from FSS, but it just hasn't happened yet. In the past few weeks I've used Lousville, St. Louis and Williamsport. Got great service every time.
 
I can't complain either. I've used Williamsport, Leesburg, Great Falls, Hawthorne, Casper and McMinnville in the past 2 months -- nothing but quick and informative service.
 
No complaints from me either -- the service is a whole lot better than it was in the last year before they privatized the FSS.
 
I haven't called FSS since uh...October. I can get everything online.
 
EdFred said:
I haven't called FSS since uh...October. I can get everything online.
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Me too, but I haven't had access to a computer a few times when I was away and had to call.
 
I have received very good service and great attitudes all month...once they pick up the phone. My average wait times are about 3.5-4 minutes, not bad but not as good as in years past.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Anyone else experience really terribly crappy FSS service over the weekend? Man, really bad.
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For the first flight of the day, Brent was on hold for 20min before getting a briefer, and then she bumbled through the brief, but at least his plan got on file.

For the later return flight, I got a briefer right away, but is was obvious this guy had next to no clue on what was going on. I had to repeat things many times, and the order of the standard brief was not what you usually expect. I hung up hoping our plan was on file.

When we got in the air, I called Atlanta app to pick up my clearance, and he had nothing on file, and asked me to switch to FSS and get another one. I declined, and went VFR with FF. Right after that radio exchange, a Baron off another airport called the controller to get his clearance, and no dice for him as well. The controller was a good guy, and called back about 10min later offering popups to each, and we accepted.

Could have been a system problem, but that guy on the other end was next to useless. Enough so that I'm ready to switch to filing using duats.

Sometimes I wonder if the bad service is somehow tied to the user fees battle....nah, our government would never do that...
 
All along, I had been calling Macon direct. They know the area and are the best bet. This last Saturday, I kept getting a busy signal from Macon so I gave up and called the main brief number. After a wait of nearly ten minutes, I was connected with Prescott, Arizona. She had to ask me what forecasting stations were in the area.

I was calling from Gainesville, Georgia. What's wrong with this picture?

:dunno:

The scary part is... I read an NTSB report a while back where a contributing factor was reaching a briefer who was not familiar with the area resulting in the pilot obtaining insufficient information.
 
I called yesterday while trying to file an IFR flight plan; three times I was put on hold and never got through. Luckily, it was VFR conditions and I was able to file in the air. Not acceptable.

AOPA has a place on their site to file complaints. I strongly suggest we all do that. Safety of flight issue to me.

Best,

Dave
 
I haven't used FSS since I started flying out of KJQF. I've used their weather computer system and CSC DUATS myself.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I called yesterday while trying to file an IFR flight plan; three times I was put on hold and never got through. Luckily, it was VFR conditions and I was able to file in the air. Not acceptable.

AOPA has a place on their site to file complaints. I strongly suggest we all do that. Safety of flight issue to me.

Best,

Dave
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I'm not sure about the AOPA place but you file a feedback report directly with LM at http://afss.com/feedback/ you do have to sign up.

I agree if you don't get the service we need we should log a complaint. They have a contractual agreement to answer phone calls in 20 sec. I'm not sure what percentage has to be in that time frame, still looking

Joe
 
I noticed a dramatic deterioration when they went to the "talk to the machine" thing; it simply does not work. Briefers, once you get 'em on the line, are still generally good, it's getting through to them that has now become difficult.
 
I've called three times in the past two weeks. I always get through right away.

Sunday, from when I pressed 1 till I had a live voice on the line was probably less than 1 second. It was like he was waiting for my call. Knowledgeable and freindly. No complaints here.
 
Every time I have called in the last 2 months (granted, not often), I've been on hold for an average of 1-2 minutes each time.

Unacceptable.
 
They are making a LOT of changes now, personnel, training, infrastructure, combining offices, etc - a bunch of folks are on their way to DC right now for 5 weeks of training. The RDU FSS office went dark last night at midnight, and by now ALL the computers are gutted out and they're starting to put in all new systems. They are going to be doing things differently now, so there's going to be a transition period, with nothing to be done about it, unfortunately.
 
I had no difficulty getting a briefer (Kankakee) recently, but I've found the new TIBS service pretty poor.

It used to be that you'd get recordings for the local area by pressing "2" after calling the local FSS. You'd then have a variety of areas, generally a 50NM radius of a number of airports in the area. A separate recording for synopsis and adverse conditions. Now, they have a single toll-free number with a voice response unit. It has the s l o w e s t menu system I've ever heard! I literally thought that it did not understand my response, when it was just waiting a few seconds to give the next menu. And on top of that, it takes at least 7 minutes to listen to the message, because it starts with the synopsis and adverse conditions, basically a computer reading the VORs to you. Then it gives the METARs for what seems to be EVERY airport with AWOS/ASOS in 1/4 of the state. Then it does the same for the TAFs. At that point, I hung up. My cell said I was on for over 7:00 minutes.
 
Kankakee has been fine for me too over the last month and a half or so. In maybe a dozen calls, I've only had to hold I think twice, and then for no more than a minute - 90 seconds. The only real difference is when asking for weather at Lansing or Pontiac, I've had to specify Illinois or Michigan since they've apparently become responsible for them too. The quality and content of the briefings has remained consistent.
 
Last year I actually received a tour of the Kankakee FSS. All six people working were very knowledgable and actually seemed to appreciate a pilot coming into their domain.
 
Well, I called WX BRIEF today to get the number for Madison Approach to thank them for assisting me Sunday, Fort Worth answered after couple of minutes. FW didn't have a number for Madison and cut me off while I was waiting for them to try to find it. I finally called Chicago Center from their number in the A/FD.

If one is leaving from an uncontrolled field in IMC conditions, somehow they have to obtain a clearance with a void time; as far as I know, one can't do that on the internet. This field has no other way to reach FSS to get a clearance--FBO is closed on Sunday; so, no ground line.

Best,

Dave
 
What seemingly started as a smooth-running privatized FSS is quickly becoming a disaster in the making.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Well, I called WX BRIEF today to get the number for Madison Approach to thank them for assisting me Sunday, Fort Worth answered after couple of minutes. FW didn't have a number for Madison and cut me off while I was waiting for them to try to find it. I finally called Chicago Center from their number in the A/FD.

If one is leaving from an uncontrolled field in IMC conditions, somehow they have to obtain a clearance with a void time; as far as I know, one can't do that on the internet. This field has no other way to reach FSS to get a clearance--FBO is closed on Sunday; so, no ground line.

Best,

Dave
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Where are you leaving from? The number for clearance from Chi-App is 1-847-289-1326 but you need to be in their airspace not Chi-center's.
 
smigaldi said:
Where are you leaving from? The number for clearance from Chi-App is 1-847-289-1326 but you need to be in their airspace not Chi-center's.
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Scott:

In this case, I was at Portage (C47) which is north of Madison. Normally, I would call 800-WX BRIEF and Greenbay would answer or I would call their 866 number. Greenbay is now closed. WX BRIEF wasn't answering. I was in Madison Approach's airspace. This is just getting more complicated. Guess at any uncontrolled airfield I land at I'll have to try to get a number for approach rather than just calling WX BRIEF in case I need a departure clearance.

Best,

Dave
 
smigaldi said:
Where are you leaving from? The number for clearance from Chi-App is 1-847-289-1326 but you need to be in their airspace not Chi-center's.
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Hmmm. The number I have for them is 1-847-289-0926. I guess if one doesn't work, try the other. I used mine a couple of weeks ago to get a void time clearance out of Clow.
 
I wonder if they sectorize the phone numbers Grant?

Roger Dave, was just trying to help in case you are back in this neck of the woods.

Perhaps ApacheBob knows of a good center number that you could call??
 
I appreciate the gesture Scott! The A/FD has a duty officer I can call that can get me to the proper person. Today I called Chicago Center because Madison isn't listed. I asked for Madison Approach. They gave me Madison tower; who transferred me. I can get there, but it's getting more complex.

As you know, LM was supposed to be more responsive. At a time with controller shortages in many areas, we are now calling them for things we didn't call about before.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Well, I called WX BRIEF today to get the number for Madison Approach to thank them for assisting me Sunday, Fort Worth answered after couple of minutes. FW didn't have a number for Madison and cut me off while I was waiting for them to try to find it.
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Hmm... Well, you must not have gotten one of the former Green Bay guys who's now with Fort Worth. Over half retired, 8 went to FW, and 7 to Prescott. I'm sure gonna miss them all. :(

This field has no other way to reach FSS to get a clearance--FBO is closed on Sunday; so, no ground line.
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Dave, you're talking C47 right? There is a way to get into the bathroom half of the building at night, and I thought there was a pay phone in there. I can't remember what the trick was, I've only used it once and that was a few months ago. I do know that it was not the front door. I think the back door has a code on it (CTAF or the like).

Of course, a pay phone is only gonna get you to some other FSS anyway. I'm really gonna miss Green Bay. :(
 
Kent:

I was able to get into the back of the FBO; there is a weather terminal there where I could look at weather, but not get on Fltplan.com where my flight plan was waiting to be filed. Even if I could have, I still have to call someone to get a clearance and a void time.

The 866 number to Greenbay just said it's closed and to call WX BRIEF. Would have been the same on a land line as my cell---wouldn't it have been?

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I was able to get into the back of the FBO; there is a weather terminal there where I could look at weather, but not get on Fltplan.com where my flight plan was waiting to be filed.
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Aha, I see now. :yes:

The 866 number to Greenbay just said it's closed and to call WX BRIEF. Would have been the same on a land line as my cell---wouldn't it have been?
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Probably not. Remember right before the Lockheed Martin takeover how they finally got the system in place that would connect you to an FSS based on where you were and not where your phone number is from? (So, for instance, I'd call WX-BRIEF from Gaston's on the cell, and get connected to... What is it down there, Fayetteville FSS?) Yeah, well, since LM took over it went back to the bad old days. (Example - Even though I called from Kansas, I still got Green Bay.)

Your phone went to Fort Worth, but the land line should have taken you to Princeton, Kankakee, or the new hub in Washington, all of which should have been equipped to handle your request. Emphasis on "should have." :rolleyes:
 
I've been using various FSS's in the Rocky Mt area, almost daily - Denver, ABQ, & Prescott. Nothing but good service. Having a speakerphone and the newspaper when you dial them is not a bad idea...
 
I've always had pretty good service in the past, even the recent past. Today, I got put on hold for 15 minutes with the machine telling me how important my call was to them, then they disconnected me. I didn't call back

Barb
 
Dave Siciliano said:
If one is leaving from an uncontrolled field in IMC conditions, somehow they have to obtain a clearance with a void time; as far as I know, one can't do that on the internet.
Click to expand...

I'll call ARTCC or TRACON directly if I've already filed. If I'm at 6Y9 I'm probably hosed as Green Bay AND Lansing are closed.
 
Here's a suggestion from Don Brown, who just retired from Hotlanta Center.
He suggests we inform these folks of the problem in addition to LM and AOPA.


Try these guys.

DOT Inspector General Hotline
P.O. Box 708
Fredericksburg, VA 22404
Phone: 1.800.424.9071
Fax: 540.373.2090
Email: hotline@oig.dot.gov
Web: OIG Hotline web site

Inspector General to Check FSS Money, Safety, Serive

Controls Over FAA Conversions of FSS to Contract Operations
 
The service for me has been terrible lately.
I've been just filing on line and getting the DUATS briefing to be official, and looking at Skew T plots, Aviationweather.gov and tfr.faa.gov for real information. It's pretty lousy.

I'm not sure how they managed to totally screw the system up but the past five calls I've had have been routed to a central database and have been awful experiences.
It's infuriating to attempt to file through somebody who is 2000 nm from the are you are filing in.

If the FAA wants us not to use FSS I wish they'd just be honest about it rather than giving us the crap product Lockheed is currently offering.
 
I just got bad service from Williamsport. I commented wow, it's a nice day you must be busy. He said no, 'but I was on hold for like 15 min', 'not busy but it's just me'. Oh and you will not be talking to Williamsport after July 2. Good bye Williamsport FSS
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Then there's that whole lack of phone service problem. ;)
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Hey, If you put your hand on that one branch, and put your foot up against that other tree, and hold the phone to your right ear with your left hand...
 
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