Teardrop Pattern Entry

Unit74 said:
I was talking to a pilot at the airport who said he was up flying when it happened. He said she did a overhead break and for no reason went straight in. He opined she locked up and never woke up. Is there a prelim on it somewhere? First I’m hearing of smoke.
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Smoke from the engine has been mentioned in every report on the incident that I've read.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2022/03/extra-ng-n100ng-fatal-accident-occurred.html
St. John’s County Fire and Rescue said Fox’s plane went down near the Northeast Florida Regional Airport. Jim Bourke was Fox’s fiancé and partner for nearly two decades. He was flying next to her right-wing when smoke started to come out of the engine.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...ac-family/?utm_source=ebrief&utm_medium=email
“My flight partner is having engine trouble, the engine is not running well, she’s trailing smoke and she’s making a beeline for the airport right now.” Fox can be heard declaring an emergency moments later.
 
No one should G lock on a break from initial. You should only be pulling 2 gs with the 60 deg bank.
 
See the other thread on the St Augustine accident. Engine issues leading to a runway over-run into a marsh. The plane flipped and the poor woman drowned as the canopy could not be open or broken and no rescue could get there in time. She was able to talk to tower and her finance for 10 min or so. Heartbreaking.
No idea where all the overhead break crap came from.
 
Hang 4 said:
See the other thread on the St Augustine accident. Engine issues leading to a runway over-run into a marsh. The plane flipped and the poor woman drowned as the canopy could not be open or broken and no rescue could get there in time. She was able to talk to tower and her finance for 10 min or so. Heartbreaking.
No idea where all the overhead break crap came from.
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Sounds like a guy who heard it from a guy to me.
 
EdFred said:
No, I do not. I simply say "45 to downwind [runway]" The only time I use the 45 would be, for example, when landing on 27, my heading to the airport from 20 miles out is 045º. I posted straight in for the 45 to indicate I won't maneuver to enter from the 45. If I'm further west, enter on the downwind, further east, left base.
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I once heard a pilot call on the 45 for a right base to runway 17. Confused was I.
 
In this thread I learned that the teardrop into 45 into the downwind is not a universally known procedure... lol

I would get ****ed if someone entered the pattern on upwind (with my reduced visibility due to the climb).
 
Feh said:
In this thread I learned that the teardrop into 45 into the downwind is not a universally known procedure... lol

I would get ****ed if someone entered the pattern on upwind (with my reduced visibility due to the climb).
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You realize that upwind isn't over the runway, don't you?
And if I'm on upwind, I'll see you the whole entire time.
 
Back in my day...teardrop was an instrument hold entry...had nothing to do with a traffic pattern
I don't recall anyone referring to the "overfly to 45°" a teardrop.... maybe they did I just don't remember it

SixPapaCharlie said:
I prefer to fly 500 feet below pattern and climb up to pattern altitude on the crosswind leg.
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ha ha...yeah that might be a better move for you low-wing folks.
 
Feh said:
yeah but I I don’t trust your flying. Why should I assume that you’ll see me?
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You probably shouldn't ever fly anywhere then. I could be anywhere at anytime. (And seeing that I've been to every state in the CONUS in my plane(s), it's not an exaggeration.)

Do you expect the person on the 45 to not see you as well when you are on downwind , or do they magically have some power that makes them omniscient and the ability to wipe your mental tushy and say everything is going to be alright before tucking you in?
 
I should add.... I've heard a lot of butchered and overly verbose calls on CTAF when announcing a 45° entry...and I've certainly done it myself too.
"podunk traffic....cessna 1234 ahh, setting up for a ahhh.... 45 degree entry to the left downwind for ahhh runway 31......podunk traffic"
It is kind of an overly complicated thing to say in attempt for clarity...but I'm not sure using the non-standard teardrop term really helps all that much...although I'd guess that most would understand the meaning if combined with 45....
such as " podunk traffic Piper 1234 North of the field, teardrop to 45 downwind 08, podunk"
But if that pilot omitted the "to 45" part of that call I'd probably be scratching my head for a moment....
 
Half Fast said:
I’ve found that if just yell “Allahu Akbar!” loudly over CTAF everyone will vacate the area and I can fly any pattern entry I like.
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as long as you state the color of your plane.
 
I’m enjoying spectating this thread. I don’t think I’m going to learn anything except to be self conscious if I ever go to a non-towered field again...Or was it uncontrolled.:D
 
EdFred said:
You probably shouldn't ever fly anywhere then. I could be anywhere at anytime. (And seeing that I've been to every state in the CONUS in my plane(s), it's not an exaggeration.)

Do you expect the person on the 45 to not see you as well when you are on downwind , or do they magically have some power that makes them omniscient and the ability to wipe your mental tushy and say everything is going to be alright before tucking you in?
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strawman argument just for the sake of being argumentative. Don’t take it personally. I assume on a non towered airport that someone might do something non standard, like in my airport, would be entering on the upwind. I guess you can enter wherever you want but you’ll get yelled for doing that at mine.

If I’m on the opposite side of entry for a left pattern traffic I’ll just call out “overflying the field and entering the downwind at a 45” for brevity.
 
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Feh said:
strawman argument just for the sake of being argumentative.
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Yes, yes you did.
(Your premise of I'm not going to see you, but implying everyone else can, because you expressed no concern for other legs.)

I also make radio calls for all legs, so there is that.
 
Coleslaw.. what if the pilot is entering on a left 45 for the right teardrop to right downwind with coleslaw in sight?


I think some of you guys would depart the area, any traffic advise with a last call for the option.
 
Unit74 said:
Coleslaw.. what if the pilot is entering on a left 45 for the right teardrop to right downwind with coleslaw in sight?


I think some of you guys would depart the area, any traffic advise with a last call for the option.
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I'd fly a cut donut pattern.
 
Feh said:
I guess you can enter wherever you want but you’ll get yelled for doing that at mine.
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Who’s going to yell at me? Ain’t no ATC at non-towered fields, even though some of these big, bad CFI’s like to pound on their chest as if they were. If I’m being safe and organizing myself with the traffic flow, everyone else can go pound sand!
 
Hang 4 said:
See the other thread on the St Augustine accident. Engine issues leading to a runway over-run into a marsh. The plane flipped and the poor woman drowned as the canopy could not be open or broken and no rescue could get there in time. She was able to talk to tower and her finance for 10 min or so. Heartbreaking.
No idea where all the overhead break crap came from.
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Right here.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/teardrop-pattern-entry.137056/#post-3224600
 
I like it and I use it. Really not much different than the old way, which was to overfly at 500 above, fly outbound about 5 miles, then circle to set up for 45 entry. The teardrop just shortens the outbound leg to 2 miles, so that a standard rate turn sets you up nicely on 45 entry without the need to circle. That also appeals to my general preference to fly such that I can make the runway from any point if my engine fails.

On an empty pattern, I'll just overfly at pattern alt and do a direct entry. But when the airfield is busy, the teardrop provides a good way to get a look at the traffic and sequence your entry into the flow.
 
EdFred said:
I enter on pattern corners unless I'm 'straight in to a 45' or straight in final. Once I have the runway environment in sight, I'm not putting it out of my field of view. Anyone who advocates getting the environment in sight only to put it behind you, is a special kind of stupid.
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That's why I prefer corner entry when I'm coming from the non-pattern side of the field. I was taught the "teardrop" method, but often found it difficult to spot the field again after the inbound turn, especially in forested areas.

I don't like the midfield crossover at pattern altitude because it puts you at a high rate of closure with traffic entering on the 45.
 
Do any of you have ADS-B and see traffic?.....then just get behind the traffic and motor on. Why all this maneuvering?
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Do any of you have ADS-B and see traffic?.....then just get behind the traffic and motor on. Why all this maneuvering?
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Many non-towered fields are in areas where ADS-B is not required. We have to watch for aircraft that have no electrical system too.
 
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. ANY pattern entry has the potential to cause a mid-air. However, write-ups from the FAA indicate that the majority of mid-airs in the pattern involve aircraft at different altitudes climbing or descending into each other. In addition to the obvious visibility issues, there is just too much sky to scan continuously.

Merging at midfield has the significant advantage that all aircraft are at the same altitude, and coming from known directions. Thus your see-and-avoid scan is reduced from a 360 degree 3D sphere to a 90 degree arc of the horizon.
 
SkyDog58 said:
As long as the donut is cut at 45°angles.
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The idea of a donut-shaped pattern entry is intriguing... Refer -
cae3b83d00a5644493a7d9246ca97de5.png
 
I’m of the opinion the fewer turns the better. Allow 45 degree pattern entries to the upwind and downwind, and direct entries to the upwind/final and downwind. That allows instrument approach arrivals to integrate better with the existing patterns ops and reduce the amount of opposite direct turning in the pattern. Adjust when you turn crosswind to adjust for speed and spacing.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I like it and I use it. Really not much different than the old way, which was to overfly at 500 above, fly outbound about 5 miles, then circle to set up for 45 entry. The teardrop just shortens the outbound leg to 2 miles, so that a standard rate turn sets you up nicely on 45 entry without the need to circle. That also appeals to my general preference to fly such that I can make the runway from any point if my engine fails.

On an empty pattern, I'll just overfly at pattern alt and do a direct entry. But when the airfield is busy, the teardrop provides a good way to get a look at the traffic and sequence your entry into the flow.
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Palmpilot said:
That's why I prefer corner entry when I'm coming from the non-pattern side of the field. I was taught the "teardrop" method, but often found it difficult to spot the field again after the inbound turn, especially in forested areas.

I don't like the midfield crossover at pattern altitude because it puts you at a high rate of closure with traffic entering on the 45.
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I actually like both conceptual methods for entering from the non-pattern side. While I agree that doing the overhead teardrop to a 45 does create a period of loss of airport view on many occasions, I do realize that if I’m making the descending right turn at standard rate to turn to 225 degrees and hold that 45 to the runway, the airport environment will come into view soon enough. Often times,when it is very busy, I feel the need to do what most other aircraft are expecting of aircraft inserting themselves in the pattern, and that is the overhead turn to 45.
 
If I'm approaching from the non-pattern side, I enter on the crosswind, either midfield or at the usual closed traffic crosswind distance. I prefer the latter because it's easier to see somebody taking off as I approach the field than it is to see somebody on a long or wide downwind as I'm crossing midfield. It also puts me behind anybody already in the pattern, which is good because most everybody is faster than me.
 
somorris said:
Me too, Huckster! Not doing that!
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I know of one local gent who runs downwind 5 miles parallel to the runway… and no he’s not the one owner of a 747 on the field! Crazy! I run mine tight as an untouched woman’s well…. You know… engine fails early on the downwind I’ll slide over for a tailwind landing!
 
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