Talk Me Out of Buying...

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by FormerHangie, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Having driven a C8 Corvette, I can say that it really is an incredible driving machine. The lack of a proper manual transmission is a deal breaker for me personally. On pure paper specs, I agree with you on this. But like many things with vehicles, there's what's on paper and the things that are harder to quantify.
     
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  2. tspear

    tspear En-Route

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    Lmao. You are tilting at a windmill.
    All the major auto companies are busy moving to EV. Even the UAW which tried to effectively stop GM from going EV lost (EVs take a lot less labor to build, and the power train is much more automation friendly for final install.)

    Pretty much every auto company has shown off a concept EV of their top selling models (camry, Corolla, F150, Mustang....) Concept cars that carry the major model name on it are usually just a few years from production.

    GM, Ford {I think}, and Toyota and one European company (I forget which) have all announced the have designed their last has engine.

    Tim

    Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
     
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  3. RudyP

    RudyP Cleared for Takeoff

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    I’m not against 4 cyl porsches (especially 356 but even 912 or 944 are fun!) but I too would recommend a used 981 6 cyl or new GTS or GT4 (especially the 4) if you want new.

    Personally, I prefer (and own several) 911s but the Cayman is terrific!

    ...and the person who mentioned a Tesla should be banned!
     
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  4. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    There are a few around, but the inventory is really thin. I think I'd really like to have the active suspension, and it doesn't seem like many of the base models have it.

    If you're wanting to mostly track it, certainly, but I suspect it's a little hard edged for daily use. Plus it's an addtional $40,000.

    I had originally planned on getting one of the new 2.4 liter Subaru BRZs. If I were going to get that, I'd get the six speed manual for sure, I don't want a conventional hydraulic automatic in a sports car. Two problems with that, my wife would never drive it since she refuses to drive a stick, and while I've always wanted a Porsche, I've never really wanted a Subaru, so there's two good reasons to go with a Cayman. She rarely drives my car, usually about once a year when her car needs something, but she has no reason to want to drive my Fusion rather than her Explorer, she may feel differently about a Porsche. When we met, she was driving a Honda Prelude.

    When I was 12 years old, my dad bought a VW based Meyers Manx clone dune buggy. One of his friends and I went out in it, and he asked be if I wanted to try driving it. Of course I did, and I stalled it once, after that I had no problems driving it. I drove exclusively stick shift until I was 33, when I traded my GTI for a Ford Aerostar van that I needed to pull my Formula Ford racecar. I drove that van for 10 years, but during almost all of that time, I had a Moto Guzzi V50 and the Formula Ford. When I quit racing, I got another stick shift car and drove it for 12 years. My current car is a plug in hybrid, because I needed an automatic to teach my daughters to drive. I thought I'd miss shifting, but I really didn't. Like I said earlier, I Turo'd a Mazda MX-5 last summer because my younger daughter wanted to try driving a stick, (she did great) but I found it didn't do much for me. I felt like I was trying to micromanage the drivetrain when I knew it would have been able to do a better job than I could.

    For the last few years, I've been getting in a little track time here and there, both by renting Mustangs and a Camaro to do Track Night events, and also doing supercar drives with Xtreme Xperience. All the cars that XX provides are automatics of some type, they couldn't do what they do if the cars had a stick. I've driven an Audi R8, a Nissan GTR, a Ferrari 458 Italia, the C8 Corvette, and 911 GT3 and GT3 RSs, the Porsches three different times. I don't find that the dual clutch diminishes the driving experience, quite the opposite. One of the deals with track driving is that unless you're really well heeled and have a lot of spare time, you never get enough track time, and having the ECU handle shifting lets you focus on driving. It may not be what you'd want, but it is what I do.

    Caymans are available with four engines, the base comes with a 2.0 liter 300 hp four, the S comes with a 2.5 liter 350 hp four, the GTS 4.0 which has a 394 hp normally aspirated six, and the GT4, which has a 414 hp normally aspirated six, so you can get a new one with a six. In my case, I already feel a bit self indulgent spending another $20,000 on top of the $75,000 that the base model would go for. I'm also looking for some balance between the amount of power a car has and its grip. I'll be approaching age 65 if and when this happens, I don't need something overly fast to where I can't get close to the car's limits, because my personal limits won't let me.

    Every year or so, I prepare a document for my wife with all our financials, in case I suddenly kick the bucket. I did that last week and came to the conclusion that we can afford this, and it wouldn't affect any of our other priorities. A number of years ago, I started talking about getting a Porsche one day, and that the best way to do that was tourist delivery, and she didn't seem to mind the idea. When we bought the boat six years ago, I thought it was gone, but looking at things now, I do believe it's possible. Hopefully my wife will agree. She ought to, I haven't spent very much on my cars since we've been married, far, far less that what we've spent on hers, plus she got that stupid expensive kitchen remodel a few years ago.
     
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  5. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    I was just throwing some points out there, which I figured you'd considered, but I wouldn't be Ted if I wasn't pushing for the manual transmission option. As you said, it may not be what I want, but it's what you want. And given that it's your money, that's all that matters. I'll just be sad that I can't try to buy it from you when you're ready to sell. :)

    That "I don't miss shifting" I can't relate to directly as it pertains to driving a car or any other vehicle, but I can relate to as a concept - specifically with flying. When I had to go to New York a couple of weeks ago to take care of some issues for my mom I was sitting in back of an E170, with some people up front who probably had fewer hours than me at the controls, and likely zero MU-2 time. As I was thinking about the upcoming trip before I thought about how I wish I had the flexibility of being able to fly out and then just come home whenever I felt like it as I had done in years past. But once I was sitting in back of that RJ I thought how nice it was. I didn't have to worry about my proficiency and the fact that I hadn't flown in 4 months and was a bit rusty. I didn't have to think about the weather, nor did I have to think about whether I would need to call and get a hangar if it snowed or was frosty. I didn't have to deal with arrangements with the FBO, worrying about them towing the plane improperly or managing the line guys attempting to misfuel the plane (something that always happened on the MU-2).

    And as I sat there, I thought, "I don't miss flying, in fact I'm glad to be in back of this Jungle Jet" something that even a year or two ago I didn't think I ever would've said.

    So, I may not get it, but I get it. :)
     
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  6. RudyP

    RudyP Cleared for Takeoff

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    Thread drift but I bet you start missing flying soon Ted! I took about 6 months off last year after I sold my SR22T and before I started flying the Mustang... The first 5 months were fine, I flew the airlines a few times, chartered a couple of times and then at month 6, I realized I needed to get back to the front left seat...

    Oh, and I’m 100% with you on 3 pedal cars! But you knew that already... I abhor PDK..
     
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  7. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    Oh, it'll probably catch up with me to some extent eventually. But where you moved up to the Mustang, I would certainly be moving way, way down in whatever I started flying next. I'll admit that the idea of an old tuna tank, straight tail 310 has appeal, but an old taildragger once we finish the runway has a lot more appeal.

    And yes, I'm still building the runway. :)

    :cheers: :rockon:
     
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  8. charheep

    charheep Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    When I looked about 10 years ago (I think around there) at the European delivery option, it was basically a wash on the final price. The lower price of the car plus all the costs of shipping and the vacation costs were pretty close to going a dealer and buying one off the lot, within a few thousand. Is that still the same ?
     
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  9. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Driven 6 of them, had one for 9 days on a trip...hated them all. I wouldn't know that I hate them, if I had not driven them. As awe inspiring to drive as a 1976 VW Rabbit, drove one of those to, the second worst car I've ever driven, right behind the tesla. I'll keep my Dodge thanks.
     
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  10. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I really like this car, I would love to have a 4.0 liter boxster with stick.
     
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  11. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    And the electrical grid is greatly updated, so it can handle everyone plugging in vehicles. Brown and black outs already happen, imagine if ever car and truck was now electric, OMG. You better not want to do laundry, cook dinner, or run the AC.
     
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  12. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    I drove a C8 Corvette for three laps at Atlanta Motorsports park. It's very nice, gets down the road very well, lots of power, good brakes, and handles well. It is a bigger car that the Cayman and it drives bigger. I sure wouldn't look down at anyone who bought one, but it's not for me. Plus, If I ask my wife if she wants to go to Europe, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. Bowling Green, not so much. When I told her I was going to go drive a Corvette, she took a hairbrush and tried to give me a combover.

    A while back, Jack Baruth wrote a blog post about Porsche owners being subjects of an abusive relationship. I could see his point, especially with the 996 and the early Boxsters. Then I went and drove a GT3, and all was forgiven. It's just too good.

    Says the man who flies jets for fun. The fours are expensive enough for my budget.

    Porsche doesn't really give you much for taking delivery in Europe. You go to the dealer and agree to a price, Porsche buys you a train ticket from the airport and puts you up overnight, but that's about it. Car + trip will be more expensive than buying a car in the US.
     
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  13. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    There's a lot of charging capacity in the overnight hours. For daytime charging, the grid will have to be updated.
     
  14. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    No you won't. It doesn't meet a single one of your known criteria for a vehicle: :eek:
    • It isn't British, like the Jag;
    • It doesn't need an engine transplant, like the Rover;
    • It doesn't need to be assembled from a crate of parts, like the Cobra;
    • It doesn't run on diesel, like the Ram;
    • It doesn't have a rotary engine, like the race car;
    • It's totally useless to build the runway, unlike the 'dozer :D
     
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  15. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    All fair points. But I’ve never owned a mid or rear engine car or a Porsche, and both are on the bucket list.

    Maybe I need to drive the RV out to @RudyP ’s and he can help me figure out which Porsche I should aim for! ;)
     
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  16. YKA

    YKA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    My sister is an office manager at BC Hydro, one of the main power suppliers in the province. At BC Hydro they flat out know, that there is absolutely no way they can begin to have everyone go buy an electric vehicle, and charge it. In fact if just 5% of people here bought an electric vehicle they are screwed. And also in 2020 electric car sales plummeted all across Canada. I know 3 people who are sales people, at 3 different dealerships, selling 3 different brands, also all in different cities. Between them all, they sold exactly 0 electric vehicles at those dealerships last year. So I am going to just flat out say it, electric vehicles are many decades from even being a serious dent into the market, and even then will not be dominating it. As for anything large, well i am 43, so will be dead long before electric trucks are even slightly viable. Pulling 140,000 lbs up just 1 mountain pass is more than the batteries can handle. My semi trucks do a lot of heavy haul, and are often well over 200,000 lbs, we pull up to 18% grades for miles and miles at a time. Even me personally, i hook onto my boat a few times a year, and tow it 5 or 6 hours each way, through some serious mountains, and when I arrive at my destination, there is not any power there at all, forget enough to charge an electric vehicle. We have hundreds of thousands of miles of backroads in the province, and they have no power lines or anything. So imagine the loggers who drive their electric pickups hours into the bush in 4x4 to work, and they can't even charge it when they get there, to make it home. Then worse yet imagine those logging trucks that haul the wood out. Now lets touch on heavy equipment, for those who think fuel is going away, and eventually everything will be electric...ever thought about construction, mining, logging, and more, all of that massive amount of machinery. A stack of batteries the size of a house could not power a single piece of mining equipment for a day, and if it could, the amount of coal needing to be hauled in to power the massive coal burning generator to recharge them would be insane. And they better be able to be charged really quickly at the end of each 12 hour shift because the next operator is waiting for it, they run 24 hours a day. So recharging to 100% in under 20 minutes is a must. No, internal combustion engines are here to stay until long after I drop dead. Possibly in 300 years technology maybe there. I sure hope mining can keep up to the supply of minerals needed to make all those batteries, and copper for the miles of wiring per vehicle, and coal mines don't run out of coal to power all those filthy coal generators required to charge all this stuff. They better get working on building a lot more of those coal burning plants, and replacing the crappy power lines with new ones able to carry loads multiple times what they do now. Houses need to be beefed up to, so they can supply the power to charge multiple vehicles, including motorcycles, cars, boats, semi trucks, pickups, SUVs, airplanes, helicopters, and more. And every business the ability to extremely quickly charge semis, heavy equipment, airliners, cruise ships, yachts and more. We are hundreds of years at a bare minimum from replacing liquid fuels as a power source. Sure wouldn't want to live anywhere near any of those thousands of coal burning plants they better get on building ASAP. I guess my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandchildren can worry about it when the time comes.
     
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  17. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Isn't a Porsche a girls car.?? Everyone I have known that has owned one bought it for their wife so they would quit complaining about the cost of the race car....:lol:



    I mean a 1970 SS Chevelle 454 Ci is the real deal. Horrible gas mileage, engine only rated at about 450hp (old hp rating) because the engineers were told to stop the dyno testing at 450hp due to insurance worries, 4 wheel drum brakes that faded so bad at speeds that they were basically ineffective. Not to mention what happens to drum brakes that get wet. Horrible handling due to mis-matched front to rear weight ratios and just plain mis-matched un-tuned suspension. Not to leave out the craptastic bias ply tires available at the time that had no speed ratings and had no handling characteristics at all. I mean no traction gave the car the ability to spin the tires in at least 3 of the 4 forward gears. And when those rear tires spun then the back of the car would try to pass the front. And not to forget the wonderful aerodynamics that at speeds above 130 allowed the rear of the car to get real lite and start bouncing all over, making a 2 lane country road very narrow. A person either became a real driver or the owner of a wrecked SS Chevelle.....

    But if you showed up at the Sonic drive in with one you were the king.!!
    [​IMG]

    (not my car, at least for not the price they are asking)
     
  18. RudyP

    RudyP Cleared for Takeoff

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    For sure! I have a few other non-Porsche fun cars too!
     
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  19. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I can't.


    Test-drove a Cayman in 2005 and wanted to buy one ever since. My wife vetoed my plans and told me to get a 911 variant instead. And who am I to contradict her :) .
     
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  20. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Oh, and get the GTS. Because, you know, its not my money.
     
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  21. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Then you'd have told him to get the GT4 if we're playing with house money and Carrera is the only acceptable answer!

    Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk
     
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  22. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    I think you'd like either a 964 or a 993, which are the last two versions that were air cooled. These are totally analog cars, which I'm sure you'd appreciate.

    I will have to say the 911 market is kind of crazy, and you'd be hard pressed to find a decent one of either of these for less that $35 AMU. The first gen water cooled 911s can be had for less, as can early Boxsters. Probably the best value would be an early Boxster S. They had intermediate shaft bearing issues, so you'd want to find one that's had a fix applied.
     
  23. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I have a 1991 964 Targa with 30k miles that I am thinking about selling in the spring. Beautiful car, but I am working on unwinding some of the stuff I have accumulated over the decades.
     
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  24. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    I agree with your statements. While I'm not a water-cooled Porsche hater like some people are, I think the analog nature of the earlier cars is more my style, so a 964/993 would be good options.

    I test drove an early Boxster once and I did like it, but at the time I found it too slow. This was one of the very early ones with the smallest engine, and nowadays I've come to appreciate driving quality more than pure acceleration, something I didn't appreciate quite as much at that point in time.

    The reality is, while I would love one and it is a bucket list item, I probably wouldn't buy one unless a really good deal/offer came along that I couldn't pass up. Although I now have the room for it with the new shop, I've got a few other projects on the list.
     
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  25. RudyP

    RudyP Cleared for Takeoff

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    +1
    Love the air cooled 911s... This is good pic of my 993
    PORSCHE_Murphy-2 (1).jpeg
    Note: it does not have tinted windows - that's just the photo's lighting.
     
  26. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Bro do you even lift
    I do not believe one second that several car manufacturers have designed their last engine. Until electricity can be delivered in an off grid long term storage form, fossil fueled vehicles are to stay. There are places where electricity is not available, and that constitutes most of the unpopulated world. Think the military is going to EV's? Maybe for their on base activities. Tactical? Again, until electricity can be delivered off grid...

    There will always be a market for and need for gas, diesel, or LNG vehicles in our lifetime.
     
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  27. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf En-Route

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    Stuttgart is an ok town. You can do the Porsche museum and the Mercedes museum. You can run up to Heidelberg in an hour and see that. Other options as well depending on how long you want to stay.
     
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  28. Daleandee

    Daleandee Cleared for Takeoff

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    You fellas are killin' me! Closest I can get to an import, aircooled, or a Porsche is my '74:

    upload_2021-1-23_22-41-41.png
     
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  29. Ghery

    Ghery Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm sure that the laws have changed, but in the 1960s a cousin of my mom's (a lawyer, so no surprise) bought a Mercedes Benz that he picked up in Germany. Used it for transportation while he was in Germany and then, because it was used by then, brought it back to the US as a used car. Saved enough on reduced duty to pay for shipping it home. Bill drove that thing for a number of years, IIRC.
     
  30. Ghery

    Ghery Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I had standards meetings in Stuttgart in 2010. There wasn't much for me to do other than go to the meetings. Kind of a boring city for me. YMMV.

    Now, other parts of Germany have been fascinating over the years...
     
  31. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    When you take delivery in Stuttgart, make a longer trip out of it. Use the opportunity to break in the car as its supposed to be done ;-) Not the most practical car for travel, you just have to pack light.
    Oh, and please, don't drive it around in the US with the customs plate in the front. It's sufficient if you just keep telling your friends how you broke it in at 175mph for 3hrs.
     
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  32. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    In 2014 (in the EU, specifically Sweden) we were told that we could drive the car for up to 6 months before dropping it off to be shipped to the US. Volvo paid for 2 weeks of insurance as part of the deal, the balance would have been on us. Our US drivers license' were sufficient. If I was to do it again, I would take longer than the two weeks. There's a lot more of Sweden I would like to see, not to mention Norway, Germany, France, etc.

    You do not get a break on it being a used car when imported. If the car maker does, that's how they pay for shipping etc and that did not add any cost to the price of the car.
     
  33. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Okay, fess up. You only bought the car so you could steal the engine out of it for the plane, right? :D :cool:
     
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  34. Stan Cooper

    Stan Cooper Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Buy it.

    I can see PDK for a daily driver, especially if there's a long commute with lots of stop-and-go. I bought my first new Porsche in 1970, and have been a PCA member for fifty years. My favorite was my 1970 914-6 into which I shoehorned a 1989 3.2 litre Carrera engine.
     
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  35. Daleandee

    Daleandee Cleared for Takeoff

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    I had a Sonex with their VW conversion. Not enough romp and stomp ... I needed more power for the plane.

    The little car is fun to drive. It does take a driver to operate it as it don't have power, antilock, or disk on the brakes ... it's the original drum brakes. No power steering, lane assist, back up camera, auto transmission, power windows, etc. But again, it is a blast to drive!
     
  36. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Brings back some pleasant memories! Including the drum brakes, LOL.
    My first car was a 1968 VW Beetle with a 1500 cc engine (purchased in 1973). I wish I still had it. Typical German build. The perfect airport commuter imo (unless one can justify a Porche). It even had an auxiliary gas heater, similar to the Janitrol in the nose of my Aztec.
     
  37. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    iFlyNothing
    You guys are making me search for Porsches.

    I'm not buying one. But you're making me search for one.
     
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  38. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Aztec Flyer
    You know car-porn is just as addictive as airplane-porn such as Trade-A-Plane.
     
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  39. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    jsstevens
    As long as you haven’t started thinking about one...
     
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  40. Ted

    Ted The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted

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    iFlyNothing
    No, not yet. You'll know when I do because I'll start a thread on it. :)
     
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