Taking a Flight with a Pilot You Don't Know

wabower said:
That sounds good when you say it, and you may actually believe it, but I don't.

The NTSB reports are chock-full of bad news about guys who also thought that was the answer.



Bottom line is that you may think you're an additional pilot when in reality you're nothing more than a well-trained passenger.
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Good point - I guess I also don't ride with people who have a bad attitude about flying. I like to talk about flying, so by the time I would go up with someone, I have an idea of their attitude... There are definitely some people I wouldn't fly with even with a set of controls in front of me.
 
wabower said:
That sounds good when you say it, and you may actually believe it, but I don't.

The NTSB reports are chock-full of bad news about guys who also thought that was the answer. Interviews with survivors of the crashes, however, including the CFI's who presumably knew about the risks, typically include language to the effect that "things happened so quickly there was simply not enough time to intervene prior to the crash."

In 2004 I researched GA accidents for the prior five years and found such sentiments as a recurring theme for the planes that I currently fly. Bottom line is that you may think you're an additional pilot when in reality you're nothing more than a well-trained passenger.
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Exactly. Now let's say that you try to intervene, and say "My plane" but you're flying with someone who isn't briefed on that (because you didn't bother briefing) and/or then fights wih you because you don't know what you're doing. Now you've got two pilots fighting for control, which probably will result in even worse consequences. So really, that idea doesn't work. I also won't let someone in the plane who I think will try to wrestle controls from me, and a standard briefing in my aircraft includes that I'm in charge, don't touch the controls without my approval.

My general policy is I don't get in a plane as a passenger with someone I don't trust the flying capabilities of. I probably don't know the plane well anyway. If I'm in an instructor role it's a bit different, since then part of the briefing includes "If I say 'my plane', you relinquish the controls immediately."

It's foolish to get into a plane for a test flight on the premise of "building time." Test flights are supposed to be taken seriously.

Sounds in this case like the guy just wanted to make friends. Ask any questions you want. I'm not offended when someone asks questions about my flying background, he shouldn't be, either. You might learn something.
 
Go for it. I flew with an 20-year AA captain last week. Great guy. Only had to save the first landing. After that he was fine. (He hadn't been in a GA aircraft in 20 years, but his experimental Sonex is almost done, so decided he better figure out how to fly something smaller than his B737.)

He only used the "American" call sign twice in an hour and a half.
 
At some point during a flight, many first-time passengers will inquire about how long the pilot has been flying. My standard response is "um, lessee, I started in mid-January, so this must be about six-severnweeks. So far it's going great and I really like it"
 
wabower said:
At some point during a flight, many first-time passengers will inquire about how long the pilot has been flying. My standard response is "um, lessee, I started in mid-January, so this must be about six-severnweeks. So far it's going great and I really like it"
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Privett's line was: They kicked me out of it in the 60's but last month I decided to give it another try, and sure enough it's all starting to come back. Yesterday I was able to start the engines all by myself.
 
wabower said:
At some point during a flight, many first-time passengers will inquire about how long the pilot has been flying. My standard response is "um, lessee, I started in mid-January, so this must be about six-severnweeks. So far it's going great and I really like it"
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Shortly after getting my PPL I took a friend home, about a 60 nm trip. A mutual friend said "Yeah, I heard that Ted did this new correspondense course flight training. Worked great for him, got his license without ever setting foot in a plane!"
 
DavidWhite said:
I was out and about at the airport one day and met a guy who owned a 320 that just did a total redo of the plane. He said if I got out there early the next AM I could go with him for the flight and get some multi time, but I was going to North Dakota the next day to pick up my mooney.

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/hays/one-dead-in-single-engine-plane-crash-in-caldwell-county
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If I'm reading the accident report right though, it was night IMC, 1/2 mi vis, 400ft overcast, and the FAA database does not show that the pilot had an Instrument Rating :dunno:
 
I don't think I've ever been the pilot someone else didn't know -- the only time that comes close was in my first flight in the Branded Bird -- however Tom is a CFI, so that doesn't really count.

I've flown with a few pilots I didn't know and I can only remember one time where I started to have doubts in the air. A few years ago I was getting a ride back to home base from someone at a nearby field where I was leaving my plane for maintenance. The plane was a fixed-gear Cardinal, and I asked the owner-pilot about her experience -- she had several hundred hours and was instrument rated. After takeoff we had to return to her field to check out a radio issue, and she made a very nice landing there. Her airmanship seemed really stellar on the flight over. But when we got to my airport, for reasons I can't even begin to guess at, she tried to plant the plane nosewheel first and got two bounces into a porpoise incident before I urged her to go around. Second try wasn't pretty either, but she did manage to get on the ground without breaking the airplane. I thought for a split second about saying "my plane" but (a) it wasn't and (b) I have no experience landing even a Cardinal from the right seat.

So it's not a decision I would make lightly again. Definitely ask questions -- but be prepared for the possibility that you might hear all the right answers and still get a scare.
 
Not without a recommendation by someone very trusted. Our crusty old airport maintenance guy saw many takeoffs and landings by all pilots based at the two airports that the port district we worked for maintained. He also heard all the airport scuttlebutt. Whenever this or that pilot asked me to go flying (I was single at the time), I'd casually mention it to him. He'd either give a slight nod (yes), or say outright "I wouldn't fly with him." Over eight years of association with him, it became clear he knew what was what ...
 
deeruck said:
If I'm reading the accident report right though, it was night IMC, 1/2 mi vis, 400ft overcast, and the FAA database does not show that the pilot had an Instrument Rating :dunno:
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Well, there wasn't a weather report for another hour but its probably safe to assume so. No - he did not have an instrument rating. I just assumed he did because he owned a big twin.
 
DavidWhite said:
Well, there wasn't a weather report for another hour but its probably safe to assume so. No - he did not have an instrument rating. I just assumed he did because he owned a big twin.
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Yikes !
 
Does that mean you're also assuming that 320's are big twins?

DavidWhite said:
Well, there wasn't a weather report for another hour but its probably safe to assume so. No - he did not have an instrument rating. I just assumed he did because he owned a big twin.
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wabower said:
Does that mean you're also assuming that 320's are big twins?
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My thought as well. I've met 421 drivers who only fly VFR.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
My thought as well. I've met 421 drivers who only fly VFR.
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we had a B200 driver who stayed VFR. He had the rating but he'd get airsick if he was in the clouds too long. Fortunately we worked in a fair weather area
 
JHW said:
we had a B200 driver who stayed VFR. He had the rating but he'd get airsick if he was in the clouds too long. Fortunately we worked in a fair weather area
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Not surprising. One of my friends would fly with a doctor who owned a Citation and then an F90. In both cases even though he'd fly IFR, avoided clouds at all costs unless my friend was there to handle the IMC for him.
 
A story from the local airport

Okay this story isn't quite the same circumstance but i'm stuck in a place for 3 hours and i've got nothin' better to do.

While taking photos of airplanes landing at my local airport, one piper 140 that had just landed, stops on the taxiway and the pilot tries to get my attention. He asks if i wanted to go fly with him because his wife wasn't going to. I had never seen this guy before, but i did happen to take photos of the plane he was in while landing, and i assumed it was the same guy that piloted it. I wanted to go fly so badly that i didn't wanna reason too much and then find reasons to say "thanks, but no thanks". So while wearing my camera bag with a bunch of lenses and my bulky SLR around my neck, I got in the plane and off we went to the run up area. So now im thinking a little more and wondered "what if ... " Oh well lets just fly. So we took a brief flight about 15nm over a nice lake, i got to take some nice photos on the way out and back and i got to be in the front right seat. It was great!

Because i had taken some lessons i the past (enough to solo) i had a bit of a clue about flying. So while turning final we were at about 85mph indicated and i knew that was somewhat fast, especially since we were above glide slope. I didn't wana be a backseat driver so i kept my mouth shut, but eventually i casually said "oh look, we're doing 85". Well, the pilot-dude did his thing and we got off the runway at the 3200' end of it, uneventfully ;)

So i loved it.

The guy was also very happy after i emailed him some of the photos - he even used them on his website.

I was aware of the risk but did not want to reason (too much) my way out of the chance to be in a plane.
 
wabower said:
The NTSB reports are chock-full of bad news about guys who also thought that was the answer.
Click to expand...
One of my flights with a guy who I didn't know beforehand included an experience like that. We discussed it at PoA, but to recap briefly, he was an Instrument student and had about twice as many hours as I did. The flight proceeded uneventfuly until the first fuel stop. There, he thought that I wasn't going to flare in time and suddenly pulled the yoke. A momentarily struggle ensued while the airplane mushed down to the runway and landed somewhat harder than usual. We discussed it cordially while we waited for the airplane to get refueld. Aparently I was in a habit to descend too steeply in a Cherokee, while he was doing 3 degree approaches in Arrow for a year, so the sight picture confused him. For our next landing I warned him to trust me to flare properly, and we landed just fine. On the way back he was PIC and flew fairly normally, or at any rate I didn't feel like we're going to crash.
 
I put the future owner of my Sundowner in the left seat after knowing him for all of an hour. He did a fine job, and I made a great friend in the process (and sold the plane to him for a good price, after it only being on Controller for 2 days).
 
So once upon a time in Kansas I served as east region co-chair for Dole's first senate race and we gotta fly to Coffeyville to attend a campaign event at which my friend and state senator (in the back seat) will do the intro.

The trip has been arranged by Dole's staff and will be flown (and donated) by a local architect, whom I had known for several years in GOP politics but never flown with, in his ~N-model Bo.

We took off from KOJC just before sunset and about 10 minutes after dark I noticed that we weren't exactly tracking a straight line. As I casually reached for the chart he suddenly confessed he wasn't current for night flying, had never landed the Bo at night, didn't really understand the ADF that he planned to use for navigation, and would really be more comfortable if I flew the rest of the trip as well as the return trip after the event. So I did.

He had never flown with me either, but knew I was a pilot. I've always wondered what might have happened if I hadn't known more than he did.
 
wabower said:
In 2004 I researched GA accidents for the prior five years and found such sentiments as a recurring theme for the planes that I currently fly. Bottom line is that you may think you're an additional pilot when in reality you're nothing more than a well-trained passenger.
Click to expand...
I agree if we're talking about taking over control unrehearsed but an additional pilot can improve the ADM sometimes. I like to go with the concept of anyone in the plane having veto power on a choice with risk but I wouldn't attempt to take control of someone else's airplane (or a club airplane flown by another club pilot) unless I was convinced I would be in for serious injury (or worse) if I didn't.
 
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