Taking a Flight with a Pilot You Don't Know

TedR3

TedR3

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Ted
A fellow club member suggested I fly with him from Northeast Philly to Leesburg, VA on Saturday.

This is a guy I don't know. Never met him. He's a new member of the club.

I've never been in the SFRA and I hear that Leesburg is a busy place.

Now, he is a former naval aviator and is an ATP/CFII, so that certainly says something. But for all I know, he's not current to fly with pax.

So what's your policy? Do you just jump in a plane for a x/c trip with someone you don't know in the left seat?

Or is it just a "it depends" kind of thing?
 
TedR3 said:
A fellow club member suggested I fly with him from Northeast Philly to Leesburg, VA on Saturday.

This is a guy I don't know. Never met him. He's a new member of the club.

I've never been in the SFRA and I hear that Leesburg is a busy place.

Now, he is a former naval aviator and is an ATP/CFII, so that certainly says something. But for all I know, he's not current to fly with pax.

So what's your policy? Do you just jump in a plane for a x/c trip with someone you don't know in the left seat?

Or is it just a "it depends" kind of thing?
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Yep, just did a couple weeks ago. Also been the strange pilot someone else flew with.
 
whats your concern? are you afraid he is not familiar with the airspace and might bust the SFRA or that he might not be competent flying the plane? You do have controls on your side of the plane you know.
 
I don't except for when I ride with the airlines....IMO I'd ask around, see if you can talk to someone who's flown with him before...or at least knows if his background holds up, medical's valid, etc...you can also check if anybody at your FBO knows him...good luck, hope it works out for you
 
ATP/CFII is pretty qualified. Did you ask him how recently he has flown? If you don't trust him enough to tell you the truth, then maybe you shouldn't fly with him. If after meeting with and talking to him and you feel he is being straight, I don't see a real issue.
 
I would think if the club let him join he should be OK. Don't they check to make sure he has a currect medical, flight review, and insurance?
I have no problem flying with a stranger. Done it several times and have learned from each of them. I have never had an experience that left me saying, "Never again!" to myself.
If it helps you, why not ask him beforehand about the route/altitude/alternates he has chosen, and whatever else his game plan is. You'll find that each pilot has his/her own preferences; for example, one may choose to fly a higher-altitude direct route, whereas someone else might dogleg or go around certain airspace or terrain.
Go, and have fun.
 
After 44 years of flying and 40 years as a CFI, I'm pretty good at gauging just by talking to someone if I feel like being a passenger in a light plane with them. But that's me, not you. If you really don't know, do what SJ said -- ask some folks at the airport about him. You'll find out fast, especially if someone says, "Well, I'd just as soon not comment on him." :eek:
 
What's the scuttlebutt? The guys you don't want to ride with are usually known characters.
 
What's the reason for the trip? Why does he want you along? I think I'd find that out before I decided. "I need someone to help me load up the cocaine."
 
He's an ex navy aviator and should appreciate directness.

Just tell him you want to know when he flew last and if he's current. No big deal.

Don't be afraid to hurt feelings.
 
Fer Chrissakes, go make a new friend.
What the hell has happened to us.....
 
I'm usually concerned more about the maintenance of a strange plane than flying with a strange pilot. I figure I can help catch oversights and mistakes from another pilot, but I have no* way of knowing if the engine is trashed and the wing spar has more cracks than a plumbers' convention.

*ok, you can tell a lot by looking at the plane. I remember as a young newby flying with an "experienced" pilot in his Cardinal. He convinced me that it always ran rough on just the left mag, suggesting that checking the mags was unnecessary. We live and learn (sometimes not in that order).
 
Three friends of mine jumped in one too. If the guy who was flying it that day had known anything about DA and short-field performance, they might still be among the living.

docmirror said:
:yeahthat:

I hopped in the back of a Tri-Pacer decades ago and made a friend for life.
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ATP/CFII /Naval Aviator? And you are worried why?

If you are a private and he busts the airspace there ain't no way you are going to be responsible . . .
 
Well, you never know about those Navy guys . . .
comanchepilot said:
ATP/CFII /Naval Aviator? And you are worried why?

If you are a private and he busts the airspace there ain't no way you are going to be responsible . . .
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If you ask him directly about his flying experience and/or check him out through trusted sources, you can make a friend for life and have an enjoyable and educational flying experience. And that would be the best and most likely outcome. As pilots, we're constantly having to evaluate risk. This is no different. IMO "trust, but verify"....you never want to put yourself in the position of becoming "a victim of circumstance"!
 
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wabower said:
Three friends of mine jumped in one too. If the guy who was flying it that day had known anything about DA and short-field performance, they might still be among the living.
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We can all make up scenarios. I can do a quick W&B in a GA plane, if too many bodies get in a Tri-Pacer, it should be kinda obvious. This is the kind of thing that would happen to unknowledgable seat meat, not another pilot.
 
I've done it plenty, but they were always a CFI and/or DPE. Of course I've been the strange pilot a few times. What were they thinking riding along with me?
 
wabower said:
Well, you never know about those Navy guys . . .
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Well there WAS a famous song by a group of Village People about the Navy.....what could possibly go wrong???? :dunno:

Any ex-military aviator has a very thick skin and would probably respect you more for asking the questions you need to ask. As you both will arrive at the scene of the accident at the same time, ask your questions.
 
If you don't feel comfortable, don't go. Instincts are there for a reason.

I may not be so apprehensive with someone carrying those credentials. I mean, naval aviator? Even if he flew old beat-up Hawkeyes, he still qualified to be a naval aviator. That ranks pretty darn near the top in my book. Heck, I'd fly with him just to hear some good stories.
 
TedR3 said:
I've never been in the SFRA and I hear that Leesburg is a busy place.
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Others have addressed the main point of your question, but I want to comment on this part as well

You can always take the SFRA course online from the FAA if you have questions about the process. But, if he screws it up it's on him as PIC (which he'll have to be if you're not SFRA trained, so to speak).

Specifically for Leesburg it's not THAT busy. You'll most likely have no problem flying straight into the pattern and landing. Maybe one or two other planes up with you. You should know that Leesburg has special SFRA rules, essentially, which allow him to squawk 1227 (when inbound) before entering the SFRA, make calls on CTAF, and land without ever talking to Potomac. So, don't panic if you notice he's not calling Approach.
 
I've done it twice, for the purposes of splitting up the rental cost. This works with a fly-in or airshow that 2 guys want to visit. So one flies up leg, the other flies down leg.
 
He's Navy, so just ask him who he's got ready to wave him off/on at your landing destination and you'll find out all you need to know about him.
 
John221us said:
ATP/CFII is pretty qualified. Did you ask him how recently he has flown? If you don't trust him enough to tell you the truth, then maybe you shouldn't fly with him. If after meeting with and talking to him and you feel he is being straight, I don't see a real issue.
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OMG maybe the op shouldn't fly with anyone, ever?
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Fer Chrissakes, go make a new friend.
What the hell has happened to us.....
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As long as I can fly the plane, I don't get too concerned about flying with someone else. As stated above if someone has some deficiencies I figure I can spot them and help out or abandon the flight. I can see a non pilot being a little concerned but if you can fly the plane yourself, whats the issue? I did fly with someone in their T210 and I wanted to pay a taxi to take me home.
 
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Thanks for the responses.

It's first time I've flown in the right seat with someone I don't know well enough to develop my own opinion about their character/judgment.

I really don't have any concerns about this particular situation because I know the aircraft and because of the pilot's background.

But it got me to thinking about who I would jump in a plane with.
 
Does anybody that fly with you put you through the same scrutiny? That would get old to me. I take people flying all the time. They never ask what my experience is. Since you are a pilot yourself I don't see why you would have any problem flying with another pilot especially since you have controls on your side. Now if it was some complex aircraft that you don't know how to fly then I would certainly ask him what his experience was in that plane.
 
DavidWhite said:
I was out and about at the airport one day and met a guy who owned a 320 that just did a total redo of the plane. He said if I got out there early the next AM I could go with him for the flight and get some multi time, but I was going to North Dakota the next day to pick up my mooney.

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/hays/one-dead-in-single-engine-plane-crash-in-caldwell-county

Strangely enough the people who I was buying the plane from in North Dakota knew him.
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David that is insane!! Hope you are thanking god for that one.
 
I was the pilot someone didn't know once. What was even more remarkable - the last flight he was on, the pilot was killed in a departure stall crash.
 
That sounds good when you say it, and you may actually believe it, but I don't.

The NTSB reports are chock-full of bad news about guys who also thought that was the answer. Interviews with survivors of the crashes, however, including the CFI's who presumably knew about the risks, typically include language to the effect that "things happened so quickly there was simply not enough time to intervene prior to the crash."

In 2004 I researched GA accidents for the prior five years and found such sentiments as a recurring theme for the planes that I currently fly. Bottom line is that you may think you're an additional pilot when in reality you're nothing more than a well-trained passenger.

flyingcheesehead said:
Sit at a seat with controls, and don't worry about it. :dunno:
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the only time I am nervous about flying with pilots I don't know is when I'm boarding a regional jet
 
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