T1 Lines

poadeleted21

poadeleted21

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
12,332
About to put one in my house. Current best quote is $301 a month. Any suggestions?

Any tips of advice on what to ask for/insist?

Sattelite didn't cut it. Cell service is about as bad.
 
I take it that cable isn't an option.

$301 is pretty pricy for the data rate these days, but beats the snot out of cell or satellite.

Is microwave/fixed service internet available in your area? That may be a better option. They use the old MDS and ITFS frequencies to provide fixed-link service at a reasonable price.
 
bartmc said:
About to put one in my house. Current best quote is $301 a month. Any suggestions?

Any tips of advice on what to ask for/insist?

Sattelite didn't cut it. Cell service is about as bad.
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$300 for T-1 is a very good price, just very expensive for an internet connection for home.
 
momalley said:
$300 for T-1 is a very good price, just very expensive for an internet connection for home.
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The sales guy told me it was high. He said everyone is dependent on CenturyLink and they are high. He said if I was in an AT&T area, it would be considerably cheaper.
 
bartmc said:
The sales guy told me it was high. He said everyone is dependent on CenturyLink and they are high. He said if I was in an AT&T area, it would be considerably cheaper.
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$300 for a full T-1, not a fractional T-1 is a pretty good price. Most of our T-1's at work are in the high $300's to $500 or so
 
wsuffa said:
I take it that cable isn't an option.

$301 is pretty pricy for the data rate these days, but beats the snot out of cell or satellite.

Is microwave/fixed service internet available in your area? That may be a better option. They use the old MDS and ITFS frequencies to provide fixed-link service at a reasonable price.
Click to expand...

yeah, cable isn't an option, nor is DSL. I can't find any of the microwave folks in the are. Given I have multiple business needs for reliable internet. T1 is going to have to be it.
 
This is a big, and rather complicated discussion. Start here: http://www.cisco.com/support/toolkit/CableModem/CoS.htm

You would need to get definitions for your COS configured on your port/port group. After that, of course you need to find out your guaranteed minimum downstream rate, etc.

Like I said, this is a pretty big config discussion. I'm doubting you are getting the COS and min data rate of a full T-1 at that price, but for that kind of money, you should make sure.

I run into problems with data link providers even on commercial accounts where they are often run as dynamically adjusted rate using various multiplexing schemes to keep the pipe as full as possible. Sadly, the most common multiplexing schemes are reactive, and cannot predicatively provide data rates for highly bursty, or varied traffic patterns.

There's a lot more to discuss, but the link is a good start based on what I think you're trying to buy.
 
T1 largely went the way of the DODO when DSL came about. Are you some place that lacks better broadband services? I'm surprised. T1 loops aren't that common around here. Mostly they're plucked off fiber for the PBX crowd (for those who haven't transitioned to SIP). A T1 line only has the range of about 1500'. You have to have cans every step of the way between your drop and the central office (or wherever they're picking this line off).

I didn't think there was any place on the East Coast that removed from reality. Even up here in the NC hill country I can get (rather crappy) DSL.
 
flyingron said:
T1 largely went the way of the DODO when DSL came about. Are you some place that lacks better broadband services? I'm surprised. T1 loops aren't that common around here. Mostly they're plucked off fiber for the PBX crowd (for those who haven't transitioned to SIP). A T1 line only has the range of about 1500'. You have to have cans every step of the way between your drop and the central office (or wherever they're picking this line off).

I didn't think there was any place on the East Coast that removed from reality. Even up here in the NC hill country I can get (rather crappy) DSL.
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I would need to move at least 8 miles up the road to get DSL or Cable.
 
There are a lot of holes out there. I live in a valley, otherwise I'd be able to get wireless service. I'm not far enough out to get onto the electric co-op's DSL. Options are limited, I am using Verizon's home fusion service which is overpriced and has ridiculous data caps but still beats satellite.
 
flyingron said:
T1 largely went the way of the DODO when DSL came about. Are you some place that lacks better broadband services? I'm surprised. T1 loops aren't that common around here. Mostly they're plucked off fiber for the PBX crowd (for those who haven't transitioned to SIP). A T1 line only has the range of about 1500'. You have to have cans every step of the way between your drop and the central office (or wherever they're picking this line off).

I didn't think there was any place on the East Coast that removed from reality. Even up here in the NC hill country I can get (rather crappy) DSL.
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Not that DSL is any better. Verizon never could make the contracted & promised data rate within the appropriate distance from the D-SLAM. And they failed to show for 3 appointments (they finally showed after I went to the SCC). That's in the DC area. I dumped 'em for cable and never looked back.

Now they want to replace my landline phone loop with fiber "at no cost to me". Except for the part about where I have to supply a location with electric power & they want to put the node next to my front door rather than around back. I'd need to add a new electric circuit. Two key reasons for their push to fiber: 1) the fiber plant is currently non-union, and 2) they can repeatedly "upsell" additional services. At some point I'll have to go, but may well just convert to VoIP over cable.
 
cowman said:
There are a lot of holes out there. I live in a valley, otherwise I'd be able to get wireless service. I'm not far enough out to get onto the electric co-op's DSL. Options are limited, I am using Verizon's home fusion service which is overpriced and has ridiculous data caps but still beats satellite.
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Which is why I'm going with T1. I have a side business and cell/sat are just too flaky and waste tons of my time. And my main employment requires to me work from home a lot. It's just too much of a hassle to deal with sat/cell.

I have a $300/mo quote for.

Guaranteed full 1.54Mbps symmetrical T1 Internet connection
99.999% Uptime service guarantee with SLA included
Managed T1 router
8 Static IP’s Included, more available with justification for IP use
Free T1 Installation with 1, 2 or 3 year agreement
24x7x365 T1 Monitoring
30 Day satisfaction guarantees available
 
I'm assuming that you aren't in a good Verizon LTE area. I had a Verizon HomeFusion antenna on my office building until they got cable. It worked surprisingly well and was much faster than a T1.
 
bartmc said:
Which is why I'm going with T1. I have a side business and cell/sat are just too flaky and waste tons of my time. And my main employment requires to me work from home a lot. It's just too much of a hassle to deal with sat/cell.

I have a $300/mo quote for.

Guaranteed full 1.54Mbps symmetrical T1 Internet connection
99.999% Uptime service guarantee with SLA included
Managed T1 router
8 Static IP’s Included, more available with justification for IP use
Free T1 Installation with 1, 2 or 3 year agreement
24x7x365 T1 Monitoring
30 Day satisfaction guarantees available
Click to expand...

Specs seem OK - when I was on T1 15+ years ago, that was about what I had. Price is higher now, of course. I dispensed with the managed router and bought my own. Heck, I probably still have the modem down in the basement somewhere....
 
If it's Century Link, good freaking luck with the reliability "guarantee."

I'm still fighting a periodic provisioning issue that takes out my business data on a regular basis.
 
ChrisK said:
I'm assuming that you aren't in a good Verizon LTE area. I had a Verizon HomeFusion antenna on my office building until they got cable. It worked surprisingly well and was much faster than a T1.
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If it's anything like it is at my workplace (major metro area), Verizon's LTE stinks. I just pulled this:

3496377857.png
 
bartmc said:
Guaranteed full 1.54Mbps symmetrical T1 Internet connection


30 Day satisfaction guarantees available
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Full sym to what? I'm guessing it's to the CO which will be the first point of aggregation. Once at the CO, which has little/no routing capability, you're going to be on DWDM, or CWDM with a bunch of other drops to the provisioners BGP entry.

This is where things get sticky. it's kind of easy to guarantee the 'last mile'(even though it isn't nearly a mile) as being discrete data link guarantee. Once it's at the CO, things go into a mux which is a port group on a router/switch, and after that you're no longer by yourself, but sharing with more than one other user.

Yes, I know this is very general, and it's all open to interpretation, but it's hard to pin down an ISP and provisioning. Also, once you're inside the BGP, many companies(including C-link) are using traffic shaping algorithms to reduce or restrict BW based on source content. This is the whole discussion behind Net Neutrality, and is somewhat out of scope for this discussion. But - let me say that if you are planning to do streaming, you will be throttled, whether they tell you or not, it will happen, no doubts about it. In the eyes of an ISP throttling <> BW limiting. Given a plane comparison, you can push your throttle all the way in, but if you're climbing in high pitch(low RPM, you still don't get all 300HP because you can't get to high RPM mode.

<edit: this doesn't read right. The BGP is inter-networking protocol between various ISPs. What I mean is that, until you get into the ISPs internal network, the other routing protocols for the end users(drops) allow for a lot of aggregation.. Sorry>
 
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ChrisK said:
I'm assuming that you aren't in a good Verizon LTE area. I had a Verizon HomeFusion antenna on my office building until they got cable. It worked surprisingly well and was much faster than a T1.
Click to expand...

I have to use a Wilson repeater just to get cell service in my house. Then, it's 3G. I get one weak LTE bar on my iPhone 5s about 4 miles down the road.
 
I've seen a full T1 go for less than that price. I'm sure it's possible but I've sure never seen it. Seems reasonable to me. Of course a T1 is painful slow but sure beats satalite.
 
jesse said:
I've seen a full T1 go for less than that price. I'm sure it's possible but I've sure never seen it. Seems reasonable to me. Of course a T1 is painful slow but sure beats satalite.
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They start around $200/mo and go up. I have 3 reps finding me a price right now. They all say they can do $300/mo but "might be able to do a little better"
 
docmirror said:
This is a big, and rather complicated discussion. Start here: http://www.cisco.com/support/toolkit/CableModem/CoS.htm

You would need to get definitions for your COS configured on your port/port group. After that, of course you need to find out your guaranteed minimum downstream rate, etc.

Like I said, this is a pretty big config discussion. I'm doubting you are getting the COS and min data rate of a full T-1 at that price, but for that kind of money, you should make sure.

I run into problems with data link providers even on commercial accounts where they are often run as dynamically adjusted rate using various multiplexing schemes to keep the pipe as full as possible. Sadly, the most common multiplexing schemes are reactive, and cannot predicatively provide data rates for highly bursty, or varied traffic patterns.

There's a lot more to discuss, but the link is a good start based on what I think you're trying to buy.
Click to expand...

I thought the net neutrality stuff was all tied up in the courts right now and ISPs were supposed to be unbiased as to the source as of now?
 
bartmc said:
I thought the net neutrality stuff was all tied up in the courts right now and ISPs were supposed to be unbiased as to the source as of now?
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I have no comment on what ISPs are supposed to be doing except to say, they own the wires(mostly), and the endpoints, and far be it for me to tell a major ISP what they are supposed to do with traffic shaping or routing inside their network.
 
Look at www.bandwidth,com. We use them from time to time to find us quotes on lines. Decent people and pretty quick. $300 for a full T1 isnt horrible, but like others above, I have had my fights with CL before. Not as bad as ATT back in the day "loop the smartjack" It was always the smart jack, the fight was getting ATT to loop it to see the issue.
 
bartmc said:
I thought the net neutrality stuff was all tied up in the courts right now and ISPs were supposed to be unbiased as to the source as of now?
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To a (major) ISP, "traffic shaping" <> "throttling sources".

Traffic shaping generally involves packet inspection and limiting based on type of traffic. Source throttling involves limiting traffic (or in the ISP's view "prioritizing traffic") based on the source IP or provider. Plenty of providers engage in traffic shaping - a study a few years ago showed cable providers to engage in more traffic shaping than telcos.

Then there's saturated switches and/or routers upstream from your POP.

"Net Neutrality" as the FCC had implemented it was struck down by the courts - FCC is currently considering new rules. Meanwhile, Comcast has implemented "pay to play" with Netflix.

My guess is that a T1 (which is a business circuit) will have less throttling than a residential circuit. But at some point the ISP has to have a method of prioritizing traffic when the upstream circuit gets saturated. Call it "shaping", "QoS", or some other term, the effect is the same.
 
Far be it for me to poke the bear, but I'm more than certain that traffic shaping, QoS, and dynamic provisioning happen on comm/biz lines as much or more than on consumer lines. I fight with it on a monthly basis.
 
docmirror said:
Far be it for me to poke the bear, but I'm more than certain that traffic shaping, QoS, and dynamic provisioning happen on comm/biz lines as much or more than on consumer lines. I fight with it on a monthly basis.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on the circuit & whether it's shared (and what the businesses are doing). My experience has been that dedicated circuits (like a T1) are subject to less "shaping"-type behavior, especially under a SLC, than are shared consumer (cable) circuits.

But there are NO absolutes in the business. I've fought it, too, on cable circuits. On a relative basis, though, my experience has been that there's less throttling on biz-only circuits... the T-1 in and of itself will limit traffic as much or more than a consumer high-speed cable line.

Bottom line: no doubt that throttling can take place on any circuit - but YMMV. Almost makes one wish for the old BSP documents in the regulated era....
 
I've said my piece. Unless the config for COS is defined as voice/vid grade, they ISPs don't really care who you are. Pretty much no one gets away unscathed inside the BGP. Any more and I'll get in trubble.
 
I got 5 quotes today, all within 50 cents of each other. I've been pleasantly surprised by the process. People who can make deals calling me and hashing it out. Going with CenturyLink directly. Talked with the guy for half an hour and told the numbers I'd go for and made him an offer for a 3 year contract. He said he'll formalize the paperwork in the the next 48 hours.

Told him if he had a better deal, I'd be willing to listen. He said he would run fiber to my house for $127,000. I told him to run 2 just in case :)
 
bartmc said:
I have to use a Wilson repeater just to get cell service in my house. Then, it's 3G. I get one weak LTE bar on my iPhone 5s about 4 miles down the road.
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Fwiw the 4 channel home fusion antennas are significantly better than anything you can get from a mifi, lte router, or portable hotspot. Totally depends on where you are at though.
 
bartmc said:
Sattelite didn't cut it.
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Which satellite service provider did you try? What aspect(s) were unsatisfactory? (My own experience with Exede has been working out better than I expected.)
 
Jim Logajan said:
Which satellite service provider did you try? What aspect(s) were unsatisfactory? (My own experience with Exede has been working out better than I expected.)
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Hughesnet. But, The physics don't work. I use VPN, VNC, SSH etc... And th latency is too high.
 
bartmc said:
Hughesnet. But, The physics don't work. I use VPN, VNC, SSH etc... And th latency is too high.
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VPN is really what does HughesNet in. They stated that utilzing VPN essentially cuts the bandwidth in half as they already compress everything to give you the impression of faster speeds
 
momalley said:
VPN is really what does HughesNet in. They stated that utilzing VPN essentially cuts the bandwidth in half as they already compress everything to give you the impression of faster speeds
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It just doesn't work. The sattellite is still connected but they're supposed to be coming to get it. I agreed to keep the previous owner's contract until it expired. It expired. Been using a Wilson cell phone booster and tethering to my phone. VPN works OK over that. but it's a 3G connection and still slow. If anyone calls, I get disconnected. Still beat the brakes off of sattelite though.
 
I retired out of the Seattle area to the desert wastelands of eastern Washington. TV and Fiber is about $100.............and faster that anything on the west side.

 
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