Swapping Radio

Rob58

Rob58

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Rob
Trying to understand what part of a comm radio swap I can handle as an owner (not an A&P)? I'm planning to remove an old Narco MkII and replace with a Garmin SL40. Not sure where in the regs to go for this answer. Thanks!
 
Certificated plane? I don't think you can DIY.

Where's @Tom-D been, btw?
 
Really, you need Tom D?

Any pilot should be able to look at Part 43 Appendix A where the list of items that a pilot can do as preventive maintenance is listed.

For instance here is just one item on the list.

31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be designed to be readily and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided. Prior to the unit’s intended use, an operational check must be performed in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.

Of course, this is not the complete answer but since you prefer to have Tom D respond, I will allow you to wait for him.

However, my parting advice would be for any pilot and especially aircraft owners to become familiar with both Part 43 & 91.
 
This points me in the right direction. Yes, certificated plane. I wasn't sure if I have the right to even remove old equipment, or which I have some sitting long unused in the radio tray behind the baggage compartment. Certainly I understand the impact on W&B - just not sure if I can do anything. Further research on my part will answer lots of questions I'm sure. I will study on. The problem I face is that all the good avionics shops are booked up months in advance - probably because of the ADS-B installs. So I need to replace a radio in order to communicate safely and I bought a used one in good working condition. While I have the ability to handle both the mechanical installation and the wiring, I understand that a certified avionics tech would need to either do all the work or inspect the work that I have done. Problem is I have not yet found any shop willing to help.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Really, you need Tom D?

Any pilot should be able to look at Part 43 Appendix A where the list of items that a pilot can do as preventive maintenance is listed.

For instance here is just one item on the list.

31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be designed to be readily and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided. Prior to the unit’s intended use, an operational check must be performed in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.

Of course, this is not the complete answer but since you prefer to have Tom D respond, I will allow you to wait for him.

However, my parting advice would be for any pilot and especially aircraft owners to become familiar with both Part 43 & 91.
Click to expand...

I think you are referring to Remove and Replace the SAME radio or a slide-in replacement. I don't know that a SL-40 is a slide in replacement for an MKII.

Would you agree that altering the tray or connectors is not owner maintenance?
 
If any A&P can sign off the work, then this really solves my problem. Of course I agree that the SL-40 is not a slide in replacement for the old Narco unit. Thanks for the feedback.
 
I turned my plane unairworthy for a while. I swapped a Cessna ARC with a TKM swap. Manufacturer etc says its fine for the owner to replace it. I read the 43 App A and thought OK, no problem. I swapped it, flew around happily until at annual I noticed that the weight is 0.1lbs different - new W&B required...
 
Ravioli said:
I think you are referring to Remove and Replace the SAME radio or a slide-in replacement. I don't know that a SL-40 is a slide in replacement for an MKII.

Would you agree that altering the tray or connectors is not owner maintenance?
Click to expand...

mtuomi said:
I turned my plane unairworthy for a while. I swapped a Cessna ARC with a TKM swap. Manufacturer etc says its fine for the owner to replace it. I read the 43 App A and thought OK, no problem. I swapped it, flew around happily until at annual I noticed that the weight is 0.1lbs different - new W&B required...
Click to expand...

And these are two reasons why I wrote that my post was not a complete answer.
 
You'll have wiring and tray changes, IiRC the Narco uses this 16 pin round plug, aka the barrel plug as well as the tray (completely different trays). If you have the wiring diagrams and install manuals, the A&P can sign it off, but may not want to. (remember grade school english - can and may are very different) Talk to A&P before you do anything - get his/her opinion and agreement.
 
Great info from everyone - really appreciated. Regarding the radio itself - is there a requirement to have the radio tested and get an 8130 from a radio shop?
 
Rob58 said:
Great info from everyone - really appreciated. Regarding the radio itself - is there a requirement to have the radio tested and get an 8130 from a radio shop?
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You want to go to all this trouble with a radio that may or may not work? o_O
 
anybody can do the wiring and install. it will require an a&P to supervise and do the sign off. if the unit is not a know unit, IE you know it worked when remove, i would have it bench checked before installation. If it requires any rework of the panel to mount it, it MAY require a 337. thats up to the A&P to decide, if it does, then it requires an IA to sign that.
 
weirdjim said:
You can do 100% of the comm radio swap itself. Written guidance from the FAA (supplied on request) specifically state that a simple radio installation (including mounting the tray in an existing radio stack location by drilling holes in the existing rails) is a perfect example of a minor modification by logbook entry. Now, the logbook entry has to be done by a certificated airframe mechanic (the A of A&P) who testifies by signing the logbook that it was done in accordance with accepted guidelines for aircraft quality work. I will NOT sign anything off that looks like somebody took a sawzall to the old harness and then buttspliced the new radio into it. But that's just me. You may be able to find an A that will sign off an abortion like this. That's on you. It is really a good idea if you are the airplane owner to start getting chummy with an independent A&P who knows you, who knows the kinds of work you do, and doesn't have to inspect each and every screw for thread extension, correct hardware, and the like. Now might be an opportune time to nose around your home field to other owners who do their own work and find a mech that you "connect" with. Capiche?

By the way, if that is a Mark 2 (as opposed to a Mark 11) I'd like to buy the carcass from you for my museum of ancient radios. Let me know.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Rob58 said:
Great info from everyone - really appreciated. Regarding the radio itself - is there a requirement to have the radio tested and get an 8130 from a radio shop?
Click to expand...

No, no 8130 is REQUIRED. Now, some A&Ps may not want to sign off without an 8130, but that's a preference, not a requirement. The signing-off A&P makes the airworthiness decision, not an 8130. An 8130 is just evidence that it was serviceable at the time the 8130 was issued.
 
Weird Jim said:

"...By the way, if that is a Mark 2 (as opposed to a Mark 11) I'd like to buy the carcass from you for my museum of ancient radios. Let me know..."

:oops::(

<---- currently flies with a museum quality radio.
 
bradg33 said:
No, no 8130 is REQUIRED. Now, some A&Ps may not want to sign off without an 8130, but that's a preference, not a requirement. The signing-off A&P makes the airworthiness decision, not an 8130. An 8130 is just evidence that it was serviceable at the time the 8130 was issued.
Click to expand...

Exactly (in the USA)

Company policy may differ from what an individual A&P is willing to do.
 
Kind of a thread creep question Jim but in your opinion, what causes one radio to be clearer than another? If have the aforementioned Mark 12D Nav/Com and a Narco 810. The Mark 12D has always been clearer and louder for some reason.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Kind of a thread creep question Jim but in your opinion, what causes one radio to be clearer than another? If have the aforementioned Mark 12D Nav/Com and a Narco 810. The Mark 12D has always been clearer and louder for some reason.
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Mostly, I'd lay the problem at the feet of the engineer that designed the audio system. The 12D was always better built than the 810, witness the price point that they originally sold for. Like asking why the thoroughbred ran better than the plow horse.

Jim
 
Coming from someone like you that means a lot. Thanks Jim.

edit: meaning from someone experienced in the industry with a critical eye.
 
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I saw that package when I was reading about their radios. I already have their 429 INS installed and it is rock solid. I was thinking of installing two of their Comm radios and their Nav to replace the old Narco stuff I have now. But if I did that and the Nav radio doesn't talk to the VOR I have installed now, then I'd have to install a second INS. Still reading up on it. I wish the Nav 2000 was a Nav/Com.
 
Jim

Do you have that written guidance available? I'm interested to see what it says.
 
JAWS said:
Jim

Do you have that written guidance available? I'm interested to see what it says.
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Yep. I'm thinking about scanning it and putting it on the website. I get 6-10 requests a year for sections of it; scan it full once and post it will save me time eventually. Stand by for progress...

Jim
 
Vaflier said:
I beleive any A and P can inspect the work and sign it off. Might be worth checking into if you can do the install yourself.
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Yes. if you have a good relationship with your A&P/IA, you can do 100% of the work yourself, (he/she will appreciate that). But you also need to have at least a basic understanding of electronix, and antennae. Along with the tools needed to make the proper connections. As well as a copy of AC43.13 for reference, as to proper wiring technique. But it all boils down to common sense, and follow the install instructions that come with the SL40. After all, this ain't rocket surgery, but installing a radio.
 
Once in a great while I am directed to read this page because there was some thing stupid said.

Now,, you are only required to have the "A"portion of the A&P to return radios to service, Hopefully your not installing them in the engine. If you are working for a CRS as a repairman you can then sign off the installation.

Next And I hope there is no one left that believes that the AC 43-13 applies to any thing that has its own maintenance instructions such as a radio. Think about it, Why in the hell would you use the AC to find the wire size when it is given in the installation instructions for the radio.

Bye see ya when some else asked me directly. because I do not indulge this page any more.


Tom's logged out
 
Tom-D said:
Once in a great while I am directed to read this page because there was some thing stupid said.

Now,, you are only required to have the "A"portion of the A&P to return radios to service, Hopefully your not installing them in the engine. If you are working for a CRS as a repairman you can then sign off the installation.

Next And I hope there is no one left that believes that the AC 43-13 applies to any thing that has its own maintenance instructions such as a radio. Think about it, Why in the hell would you use the AC to find the wire size when it is given in the installation instructions for the radio.

Bye see ya when some else asked me directly. because I do not indulge this page any more.


Tom's logged out
Click to expand...

LOL!
 
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