Stupid student pilot crashed my discovery flight plane

MAKG1

MAKG1

Touchdown! Greaser!
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MAKG
Looks like the plane I did my discovery flight in is no more.

Saturday, winds were unusually high for Palo Alto, gusting to 22 knots. A student pilot decided that was acceptable weather for solo pattern work in a 152, despite a solo endorsement limiting him to 10 knots.

He handled winds like a lot of student pilots do. Very fast. Except Palo Alto is too short of a runway to float down. So he forced it down hard, PIO'd, bounced three times, smushed the nose gear and whanged the prop. The crash was witnessed by a CAP crew relocated there to avoid higher winds elsewhere, awaiting exercise tasking.

I haven't talked to the owner yet, but I really doubt he's happy. The pilot is fine, but I suspect he needs a new instructor. I don't know what the FAA will do to him because of his violation, but the insurance company isn't going to be nice.
 
Someone crumpled the firewall on the plane I did mine (and solo'd) in. It got written off. Pretty sure I was crumpled when I did my solo in it.
 
Is it bad to get suspended before you actually get your ticket?
 
MAKG1 said:
The pilot is fine, but I suspect he needs a new instructor. I don't know what the FAA will do to him because of his violation, but the insurance company isn't going to be nice.
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Might need a change of shorts too! I doubt the feds will do anything as it was a student other than possibly querying the CFI. I had a student nose over a C172 because he failed to get the flaps up from full. I called to report it but other than that neither of us heard anymore about it. He and another guy I instructed owned it and didn't have it insured, totaled.
 
I was going to make a comment about jumping to conclusions and calling the student stupid until I saw the part about his solo endorsement being limited to winds of 10 knots or under and him flying in winds gusting to 22. That was a pretty stupid move.
 
I have to look at my log book but I do not believe I was limited to Winds at 20 knots. I believe I was limited to Cross Winds at 20 knots. Big difference as if the winds were down the pipe, I was good to go. Now my personal minimums would not have allowed it but I was signed off to fly in much more then I would have wanted to.
 
MAKG1 said:
I don't know what the FAA will do to him because of his violation, but the insurance company isn't going to be nice.
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Depends. If's he's an insured, nothing they can do.
 
Flew my 150 in higher winds than that, but not as a student. Sucks, but it is just metal. They can make more. People, not so much.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
I was going to make a comment about jumping to conclusions and calling the student stupid until I saw the part about his solo endorsement being limited to winds of 10 knots or under and him flying in winds gusting to 22. That was a pretty stupid move.
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Yes, certainly not all student pilots are stupid (far from it). Nor even all student pilots who crash airplanes. But THIS one did a bonehead move that probably cost a nice guy an airplane (yes, I do know the owner).

It also closed the airport for a few hours, so there was a lot of local volunteer effort to move the wreck and sweep for FOD once NTSB declined it. They ruled it an "incident."

Someone mentioned crosswind vs. total wind. He was limited to 8 knots crosswind, 10 knots total. It makes sense locally to do that because wind direction is usually pretty variable due to nearby terrain and the Bay. All the indications are that the instructor had all her ducks in a row.
 
mulligan said:
mscard88 - Did he say Boob mistake? couldnt let that one go :p
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You know, you're right, he did imply that I do believe. Guess he didn't want to offend the lady pilots here. Except Cajun, she's like the honey badger, she don't care! ;)
 
An Egyptian student wrecked the plane I did my intro in. It was a 152. He did a soft field takeoff and stalled it upon leaving ground effect. The wing dropped and the plane cartwheeled. Walked away unharmed.
 
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My discovery flight Cherokee is still in service. It even received a new 160hp engine a couple of years ago. I also took my checkride in it and it's in my forum avatar (for now). But a student flew my solo plane into a hangar on his solo. He drove between the support pillars and ripped wings clear off it.
 
teejayevans said:
I wouldn't think it would take much to total a 152.
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Might not, but unlike the 172, the nosegear mounts to the engine mount instead of the firewall. The mount gets bent. Might need a mount, rebuild the engine, new prop, new nose strut....yeah, might write off the airplane...
 
Wow - that's quite the mistake. Bad ADM considering the winds. I haven't approached it yet, but my personal limit is 2 bounces before I call "go around." Hopefully he had Renter's Insurance. But glad he's OK otherwise.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
I was going to make a comment about jumping to conclusions and calling the student stupid until I saw the part about his solo endorsement being limited to winds of 10 knots or under and him flying in winds gusting to 22. That was a pretty stupid move.
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He had me at PIO.
 
I don't think it matters much that it was a student. You have no idea how many "seasoned" pilots I see do PIO. First nose bounce, I remain quiet, second nose bounce, I say "add power, power", third bounce, I am bracing for impact. So far, I am still here to tell the story.
 
BigBadLou said:
I don't think it matters much that it was a student. You have no idea how many "seasoned" pilots I see do PIO. First nose bounce, I remain quiet, second nose bounce, I say "add power, power", third bounce, I am bracing for impact. So far, I am still here to tell the story.
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Experienced?

PIO is a fundamental flaw in the pilot base skills.
 
Granted I have flown most of my time in a pretty docile Warrior, but I have never bounced, I hope I am not jinxing myself. I have always thought that I would put in the power on the first bounce.
 
How did he even get the keys?!

My solo endorsement was 12kts and I had to get the keys from the front desk of the school who carefully managed students taking the airplanes.
 
mikeinbama said:
Granted I have flown most of my time in a pretty docile Warrior, but I have never bounced, I hope I am not jinxing myself. I have always thought that I would put in the power on the first bounce.
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That's because you have oleo struts on a warrior not spring steel. The damping coefficient is significantly higher on oleo's. I'd be impressed if you could ever bounce a warrior.

In the words of my CFI "oleos give you hero landings"
 
Mtns2Skies said:
That's because you have oleo struts on a warrior not spring steel. The damping coefficient is significantly higher on oleo's. I'd be impressed if you could ever bounce a warrior.

In the words of my CFI "oleos give you hero landings"
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Land too flat and it will porpoise. There's a video on Youtube of a low-wing piper doing exactly that. The nosewheel hits and forces the nose up, and the wing flies away. The pilot pushes the nose down...

 
Mtns2Skies said:
An Egyptian student wrecked the plane I did my intro in. It was a 152. He did a short field takeoff and stalled it upon leaving ground effect. The wing dropped and the plane cartwheeled. Walked away unharmed.
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....
Foreign types with the hookah pipes say
Ay oh whey oh, ay oh whey oh
Stall like an Egyptian .....
 
Mtns2Skies said:
An Egyptian student wrecked the plane I did my intro in. It was a 152. He did a soft field takeoff and stalled it upon leaving ground effect. The wing dropped and the plane cartwheeled. Walked away unharmed.
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Pics: (I know they're tiny)
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Ouch! I know that when I solo'd, my CFI limited me to 14kts cross wind limit. Saw a dumb student pilot bounce a Cessna 172 several times today at the airport. The 172 I was checked out in for the local San Diego club was in a fatal crash a week later at KSDM.
 
DesertNomad said:
How did he even get the keys?!

My solo endorsement was 12kts and I had to get the keys from the front desk of the school who carefully managed students taking the airplanes.
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He had the code to the lockbox, as do all the member pilots. That's common for outfits that have membership, as it means they can provide 24/7 access without constant staffing. My current club does something similar.

My discovery flight was in early 2011, and this is the first time since then that I'm aware of, where a student pilot crashed a club plane. There is one other total I'm aware of, but it was a certificated pilot who did a smash'n'go at Columbia and flew home with a bent prop, bent firewall, bent main gear, and broken engine mount, and did away with my favorite (at the time) 172.

It's possible his instructor didn't even know he was flying that day. I have no information on that, but there are no enforced checks on it.
 
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