Students... What maneuvers do you do alone in practice area?

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drotto

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drotto
In the next few days I will be going on my first solo flight to the practice area. My cfi has already said that he does not care if I treat this as a "pleasure" flight because it will be my first time really up there alone, and I will have plenty of time to do maneuvers. With that said, what things do you feel comfortable doing alone as a student? I currently am restricted to less than 10 knots wind, 10 miles visability, etc.

I have done.
-steep turns
- turns around a point
-slow flight
-power on stalls
- power off stalls
- turns along a line
- short field take offs and landings
- soft field take off and landings
- emergency landings, including engine out and fire

I think that is about the list.
 
Talk with your instructor. I am an instructor and I would want one of my students asking me, not the internet, as it varies dramatically from student to student and situation to situation. A CFI/student relationship is a very important partnership where the details, especially with solo privileges, need to be very clear from all sides.
 
Pretty much my list too. Occasionally practice VOR work, as Catalina and Los Alamitos are easy to read.
 
Stalls (power on & power off), slow flight, and emergency landings aren't allowed by solo student pilots at my school.

Anything else is allowed once your instructor signs you off for solo. I still check with mine before going up though just to make sure.
 
You don't let students do things solo that they are required to demonstrate on the checkride? Very odd.
 
jesse said:
Talk with your instructor. I am an instructor and I would want one of my students asking me, not the internet, as it varies dramatically from student to student and situation to situation. A CFI/student relationship is a very important partnership where the details, especially with solo privileges, need to be very clear from all sides.
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:yeahthat:
 
Power off stalls
Slow flight
turns around point
steep turns
short and soft field takeoff and landings
and occasionally engine out to landing
 
flyingron said:
You don't let students do things solo that they are required to demonstrate on the checkride? Very odd.
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Some of those maneuvers if done improperly can end very badly, unless the student is consistently proficient with those maneuvers he should not be doing them solo.
 
MachFly said:
Some of those maneuvers if done improperly can end very badly, unless the student is consistently proficient with those maneuvers he should not be doing them solo.
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I had no plans on doing anything beyond steep turns, around a point, and turns around a straight line to start with. I know people with their PPL that are really not comfortable doing stall without a CFI in the plane. My mental plan was actually doing one or two runs in the pattern, then a circut of the practice area, with maybe one of the above three things thrown in for variety.

And despite what the tag line may imply. I have talked with the CFI about what to do on my first flight, plus he wants a phone call to discuss everything before I go up.
 
Before I do anything, even stuff I've done before, I text my CFI and make sure he doesn't see any issues with it.

My usual practice sessions are either about an hour in the pattern or an hour going out and doing stalls & steep turns. I used to be terrified of doing stalls solo but once I did it a few times and became confident I really wasn't going to spin the airplane or do anything dangerous... or even exciting I got over it. About the time I got over it, my stalls got nearly perfect.
 
Obviously others have mentioned, and you seem to agree, that working it out with the flight instructor is most important.

I will share that my first (and maybe second) flight away from the pattern were definitely just "pleasure" flights so-to-speak. There was such a feeling of aloneness and I felt like I had so much to work on just to fly around, stay in the practice area boundaries, and watch for other traffic, that I am glad I wasn't also trying to do maneuvers.

It's a big step to take an airplane on your own, especially if you've only soloed at towered airports, because it may be the first time you haven't had a CFI or ATC watching your back.
 
drotto said:
I know people with their PPL that are really not comfortable doing stall without a CFI in the plane
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So the first time they do so without supervision is on the checkride? That makes a whole lot of sense.
 
MachFly said:
Some of those maneuvers if done improperly can end very badly, unless the student is consistently proficient with those maneuvers he should not be doing them solo.
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If the student is not proficient with those maneuvers, he or she should not solo period. 61.87(c)(2).
 
Because this is a FIRST solo flight, KISS.

I'd suggest practicing the four fundamentals, with an eye on precision. Maybe dutch rolls. Not much more. Of course, talk with your instructor.

When you've got the basics down solo, with your instructor's approval, you can go on to more advanced things.

Baby steps. Just being solo changes things.
 
dukeblue219 said:
Obviously others have mentioned, and you seem to agree, that working it out with the flight instructor is most important.

I will share that my first (and maybe second) flight away from the pattern were definitely just "pleasure" flights so-to-speak. There was such a feeling of aloneness and I felt like I had so much to work on just to fly around, stay in the practice area boundaries, and watch for other traffic, that I am glad I wasn't also trying to do maneuvers.

It's a big step to take an airplane on your own, especially if you've only soloed at towered airports, because it may be the first time you haven't had a CFI or ATC watching your back.
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I fly out of a non-towered airport so my first solo was just me, the plane, and the CFI on the radio. Luckily my practive area is easy to define, and a area I am very very familiary with after having lived there for years. We have two major 4 lane roads as the northern and souther boundries. Pretty much the shore as the eastern, and the airport I fly from as the western. CFI commented that I know the area better than him when he showed me the area. We have good flight following services. Only tricky thing is the practice are is sandwitched between a alert area to the south (which includes a MOA), and a very major class B about 30 miles north of the alert area. So it is kinda narrow, and is fairly high traffic.
 
dmspilot said:
If the student is not proficient with those maneuvers, he or she should not solo period. 61.87(c)(2).
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There is a difference between what actually happens and what the regs say.
 
flyingron said:
So the first time they do so without supervision is on the checkride? That makes a whole lot of sense.
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The checkride is actually supervised, the DPE should have an idea to how fly if need be.

The reason I wouldn't recommend solo students to do stalls is because if the student does screw up, he might spin it and fail to recover. There is no need for that extra risk. Practicing stalls with an IP is just as effective and safer.
How many students do you know that went through spin training before getting their PPL?
 
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drotto said:
I had no plans on doing anything beyond steep turns, around a point, and turns around a straight line to start with. I know people with their PPL that are really not comfortable doing stall without a CFI in the plane. My mental plan was actually doing one or two runs in the pattern, then a circut of the practice area, with maybe one of the above three things thrown in for variety.

And despite what the tag line may imply. I have talked with the CFI about what to do on my first flight, plus he wants a phone call to discuss everything before I go up.
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That sounds fine, I'd expect a student pilot to be able to safely do those maneuvers solo.

Either way though, make sure you talk to your instructor about everything you do. As Jesse pointed out, your question is highly person specific, since none of us every flown with you we can't give you a good answer.
 
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Fredbob711 said:
Stalls (power on & power off), slow flight, and emergency landings aren't allowed by solo student pilots at my school.
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Wow, are student pilots less competent that they used to be, or have plaintiff's attorneys become more effective?
 
I was restricted against power on stalls. I still have that limitation (in he back of my mind) and need to remove it. I never liked the feeling and think it was my seating position and maybe a few other things that happened during my primary training.:nono:
 
Talked to my CFI again in detail, making sure I asked about specific maneuvers. He thinks it is OK for me to do any of them, as long as I feel comfortable (he knows I tend to be cautious, and not push the envelope at all). He just felt the first solo flight it would be best if I get comfortable as opposed to feeling pressured to do a checklist of items.
 
MachFly said:
The checkride is actually supervised, the DPE should have an idea to how fly if need be.
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Which is a failure. The DPE is only coincidentally an instructor and is NOT the pilot in command. If the student isn't competent to be pilot in command, his primary instructor has failed him and also is derelict in his duty in making the recommendation to take the check ride.
How many students do you know that went through spin training before getting their PPL?
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I did. But spin training is no longer part of the curriculum or the PTS. Spin avoidance and recognizing an incipient spin is. Frankly, I've seen too many instructors (including old salts) who don't even teach the students how to stall. My wife was among these. She recognized this deficiency and fortunately asked someone else to run her through a full stall series other than her primary instructor. Then we get students who think just because a wing drops that they've spun the airplane. Those are the ones who are in for a big shock when they find out what spins really are.

If you don't think your student can do all the PTS maneuvers solo, then you've not prepared them properly for the checkride.
 
Did flight today, overall it went well. I ended up doing a few steep turns, hitting my wake each time. A few minutes of slow flight. And a few trips around the pattern.
 
I did a lot of practicing the "announce position on the radio," "try not to hit any of the other students practicing in the area not announcing their positions on air-to-air," and the "avoid busting Bravo or flying into Mexico" maneuvers while in my favorite practice areas :)
 
flyingron said:
Which is a failure. The DPE is only coincidentally an instructor and is NOT the pilot in command. If the student isn't competent to be pilot in command, his primary instructor has failed him and also is derelict in his duty in making the recommendation to take the check ride.
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My point was that it's still supervised so if the student screws up he'll live.

I did. But spin training is no longer part of the curriculum or the PTS. Spin avoidance and recognizing an incipient spin is. Frankly, I've seen too many instructors (including old salts) who don't even teach the students how to stall. My wife was among these. She recognized this deficiency and fortunately asked someone else to run her through a full stall series other than her primary instructor. Then we get students who think just because a wing drops that they've spun the airplane. Those are the ones who are in for a big shock when they find out what spins really are.
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I did my spin training as a student pilot too, but I think it's fairly safe to say that most people didn't. Recently I found out that spin training hasn't been required since 1949, the reason most people went through spin training after that is because their instructors did before them and required their students.

The way most instructors teach stalls these days is more for stall avoidance, rather than being able to safety and consistently stall and not spin.
Now I realize that every instructor who's on this forum will tell me that I'm wrong regarding my previous comment, but here's the thing, if your not on this forum, you're already more involved with aviation than most and probably a better pilot/instructor. So that comment was not directed at the majority of people on this forum.

Anyways, because of the poor stall/spin draining nowadays I wouldn't recommend an average student pilot to go do stalls solo.

If you don't think your student can do all the PTS maneuvers solo, then you've not prepared them properly for the checkride.
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I think that is really how it should be, but not always the case. I'm sure everyone here knows that there are DPEs who will pass a student that isn't as proficient at all PTS maneuvers as he should be.

So I'll say if you don't think your student can do all the PTS maneuvers solo, then you've not prepared them to be a good and safe pilot.
 
For me, although I COULD do stalls and steep turns with my CFI fairly proficiently, I didn't start doing them immediately in my solo work. First I meandered out to the practice area and just got comfortable flying alone. Then I added turns around a point, S-turns, playing with radio frequencies while flying, flight following, etc. Then I started working on steep turns. After becoming a little more comfortable with my CFI transitioning into and out of slow flight and stalls I began practicing them on my own. COULD I have practiced that stuff sooner? Sure, and I kinda wish I had. I just had to build my personal confidence levels up that I could make the plane do what I wanted it to and not instead be reacting to a situation I didn't want to be in.

I WILL say that once I started going out alone and just practicing the maneuvers alone over and over...I realized that it wasn't that bad and that I would have been a better pilot at that point in my training if I had started practicing them sooner.
 
TBH, I never really did a lot solo besides my x countries. I would go up with my dad who is CFI and just practice manuevers with him
 
MachFly said:
Some of those maneuvers if done improperly can end very badly, unless the student is consistently proficient with those maneuvers he should not be doing them solo.
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Unless the CFI enters a restriction on certain maneuvers in the student's log book, they can do what they want. If a student stall/spins on a real emergency approach, I don't think I would want to explain to the FAA why I signed off a student for solo that I did not believe was safe to practice stalls or an emergency approach. Yes, if the flight school has rules, a simple "you must follow flight school rules" works.
 
Hobobiker said:
For me, although I COULD do stalls and steep turns with my CFI fairly proficiently, I didn't start doing them immediately in my solo work. First I meandered out to the practice area and just got comfortable flying alone. Then I added turns around a point, S-turns, playing with radio frequencies while flying, flight following, etc. Then I started working on steep turns. After becoming a little more comfortable with my CFI transitioning into and out of slow flight and stalls I began practicing them on my own. COULD I have practiced that stuff sooner? Sure, and I kinda wish I had. I just had to build my personal confidence levels up that I could make the plane do what I wanted it to and not instead be reacting to a situation I didn't want to be in.

I WILL say that once I started going out alone and just practicing the maneuvers alone over and over...I realized that it wasn't that bad and that I would have been a better pilot at that point in my training if I had started practicing them sooner.
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This is very close to my experience.

I'll add that I was A LOT more comfy with solo stalls after a guest instructor taught me the falling leaf. That demystified the wing dip.
 
I am allowed to practice any maneuver I have been trained in.. The only one my CFI is cautious about is Turning Stalls... I do power on and power off stalls and am more comfortable with them now that I did them alone..
 
kkoran said:
Wow, are student pilots less competent that they used to be, or have plaintiff's attorneys become more effective?
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I'm assuming it's more of a business decision by the owner, which is his prerogative.

I don't know why stalls, slow flight, & emergency practice aren't allowed by solo student pilots, but I'm sure the owner has a reason for the rule. And it's probably a case of one person screwing it up for everyone else.
 
I kinda feel that anyone who pilots an aircraft should be able to perform these safely before they should pilot an aircraft solo..
 
Well I guess I would have broken that flight schools rules because I did do slow flight alone in the practice area. Plane was nice and steady at between 45 of 50 knots. No, issues.
 
MachFly said:
My point was that it's still supervised so if the student screws up he'll live.
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Yet the student and the instructor has failed.
Further the instructor is failing the student because the next day when he is solo and free from instructor restriction he is so unprepared he will die.

I can see restricting maneuvers early on, but a student who can not preform the PTS sola, has no business doing the checkride. The examiner is there for inspection not for saving the life of students whose instructors failed to prepare them properly.
 
Those that think that a student, on their first or second solo, can't make mistakes and is anywhere near as prepared as they are when we send them to a DPE, obviously have never taught people how to fly.
 
jesse said:
Those that think that a student, on their first or second solo, can't make mistakes and is anywhere near as prepared as they are when we send them to a DPE, obviously have never taught people how to fly.
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Psh. I totally could have passed the check ride the day I was first signed off for solo flights ;)
 
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