Stories of the struggles of breaking into Aviation! Add your own!

[Captain]

Don't give up. Its been sort of a struggle for me, and I changed directions a few times, but it has paid off. And I didn't have time on my hands, I started flying at age 38. I sold my very small business and that paid all my flight training. I never had the flight school debt that I see other people trying to pay off. I had savings to carry me through the lean years.

After a couple of years as a flight instructor, I applied to regionals. I applied to many, was asked to interview by a few, and was invited to train at one. Woo Hoo..!!! I made it.!! Now I am making 1200 a month, plus I get to wear a tie and carry that large brief case with nothing in it except my lunch and a change of underwear. Did I mention I was making 1200 a month.?? And most captains were 15 years younger than me and had no real world work experience. The flying was boring to me and it felt like a dead end career for me.

After three months I left the glorious world of airlines to fly a C-207 in bush Alaska. $50,000/year. Ok, more like I am used to making, plus I am living and working in Alaska. As I started flying more different types of airplanes, pay topped out at over 100k/year. I learned to limit flying to keep pay around 99K to keep taxes down. I built my savings back up and increased my portfolio tremendously. When 9/11 happened I had just finished up a contract job. I was only out of work for a month until another Alaska job opened up.

Fast forward a few years. The feds starting crawling all over me. One thing led to another and after one fed beat his nose on my fist, I left Alaska. My intention was to fly one year with this air ambulance company then go back to Alaska. But the owner kept raising my pay to keep me here. After 32 years in business, and after I had worked for the company for 5 years, the owner decided to sell. Myself and 3 others came up with the money and bought him out. Two years later we are debt free and expanding.

Looking back maybe it wasn't such a pain after all. I did think that after 9/11 I would never fly for a living again. I can only say that my focus was flying. Not flying for an airline or corporate or freight, but flying. When doors shut I looked for the open ones, not necessarily in the same direction. I took a few chances, most didn't work out. One has worked out well. I never thought I would be a business owner in aviation. I loved living and working in Alaska and I wanted to stay there. I guess I can say that a fed with a bloody nose changed my future.

Stick with it my young friend. There will be many aviation opportunities in your future. You will probably change flying jobs many times. Some jobs will be ok, some will just plain suck. Sometimes you may feel that you should try something else. If you are as addicted to flying as I am, you will always stay in the air. Have a good career, then write a book about it.!!

edit: With apologies to airline pilots. If that is what you want and you are happy then more power to you. My intent was not to pick on anyone.

For me the airline experience was awesome...right until they shut the doors.

I was hired into the CRJ so I jumped from a Seneca to a CRJ. Got my arse handed to me in training but got through. I was hired in 2000 and the airline was growing like crazy. I sat 1 month on reserve and was a hard line holder in a few months...senior line holder in 4 or 5. I could have upgraded in 1 year but bypassed to stay in the CRJ. Figured it paid more and why bother learning another plane?

I ended up grading at around 14 months into the CRJ. This was post 9/11 so the problems with Uniteds bankruptcy were right around the corner. My airline broke with united and we started Independence Air. My little regional was ordering Airbusses (Airbusi?) I was ecstatic. Our war chest was twice what Jet Blue started with. We also had 87 money losing CRJs with no way to get out from under their leases. Who knew.

So, when the $350 Million ran out in 14 months I was on the street instead of in Airbus training...lamenting not going to NetJets who had just secured an industry leading contract.

Got to go fly B727s though for awhile...

I don't see me ever going back to the airlines. But I also don't see me flying a Piaggio for much longer either. Who knows what fate has in store.

 

[overdrive148]

Remember, as a professional pilot, you're a commodity. Fot the most part, everyone meets the high standard. Since there is no other way to differentiate performance, you live and die by seniority number. In other industries, people move around to make their way to the top earning tier. In aviation, you do that by staying put and becoming most senior.

Like a walking logbook I suppose - personality probably rarely has anything to do with it compared to pure hours and ratings, something I have little of. And if finding somewhere wasn't hard enough, staying there and surviving downsizing and bankruptcy that seems to be a common thing from what I hear is even worse. Few other careers have that same sort of difficulty :/

Don't give up. Its been sort of a struggle for me, and I changed directions a few times, but it has paid off. And I didn't have time on my hands, I started flying at age 38. I sold my very small business and that paid all my flight training. I never had the flight school debt that I see other people trying to pay off. I had savings to carry me through the lean years... *snip*

When I was young...er, I was considering airline work. Then I realized how much money and time and ratings you had to sink into it. Shortly after that, I saw the real pay and not the 6 figures that high time left seat captains make. And then I sat there and did the math on how long it would take me to even earn the amount of money to be able to get the ratings to even get the ratings required to apply for those jobs...

I also didn't exactly fall in love with the being away from home almost all of the time - I know it's part and parcel of the aviation industry, especially for pilots, but different cities all over the world on a daily basis away from family and possibly one of my own later in life didn't exactly jive with me.

I then kind of considered corporate flying but that's also a lot of hours and turbine time and different ratings. But while I'd be far away sometimes, I'd be on a semi-vacation with the company instead of shacking up in a hotel room day in day out. I think I'd like the personal nature of it as well, but then again, ATP preferred, a couple thousand hours, and a type rating at least. Bush piloting and crop dusting and other kinds of jobs became interesting at the same time.

Now I'm not sure what to do exactly. I have a PPL ASEL with like 95 hours total. No instrument or commercial yet. Just graduated from college last month (Embry-Riddle Aero Univ with Professional Aeronautics BS, 3.84 CGPA). I am trying to grab a job/career in something still in the aviation industry in case pilot jobs don't break through when I eventually grind out enough to afford a commercial and instrument ticket, but the going is rough.

I was in aviation parts sales for 7 months but ended up getting terminated for not meeting sales expectations. Then unemployed for the last 5-6 months starting with aviation job applications and finally breaking down as my benefits got closer to expiring, applying to places like jo-ann's fabrics and a nearby indian casino. Fortunately I ended up getting a job here at the Shawnee airport in an operations role, even only part time helps. Just trying to get some resume experience and some funds to get back in the air again (got my license in 2008 but college was expensive and I didn't want to push on my dad any more since he was already carrying the brunt of the blow expense wise). I paid for a number of classes, and am fortunately debt-free which is a fantastic thing, but I really need to get going again.

I also tried Air Force ROTC for a year or so and got pretty good at it but in the end decided against joining the military - I don't think I'd be able to handle it in the long term. A few people I know have told me that it's a great way to get paid to get ratings and fly but I've also heard on the other side of getting out that finding a flying job is iffy even with the hours and the multiengine time etc.

Even making 14/hr at my sales job, which felt like an over-abundance of income, I couldn't fly each month due to how expensive it is and bills and schoolwork and everything. Now that I'm graduated, I'm hoping to make it somewhere I can afford to fly and get my instrument and commercial and then get hired somewhere to fly and build hours. And then I realized that the 19k I made last year is probably the same or more than I'd make flying at a skydiving operation or towing banners. It feels like an enormous uphill grind the whole way and it's going to be a lot of work. I do enjoy flying, but it's been so long since I broke the surly bonds of earth. I'm 23 as of about 2 weeks ago, so I think I still have some time, but it sure feels like a struggle.

$1200 a month is definitely not that great especially for the skillset required to fly as an instructor or in the regionals. Heck, before taxes I'm making the same as you did before taxes part time at the airport here.

How was bush piloting for you? I've seen it as pretty rough and tumble - a great place to hone in your real skills of flying. Real stick and rudder and observation and making things work. I've never been to Alaska but an internet friend of mine works at the weather station in Fairbanks, and he describes it as a pretty harsh place at times.

Sorry to hear about the run-in with the feds btw, but I guess it seems like it got you in a good direction! I have a minor in management and aviation safety as well, but I couldn't imagine running a business or managing people on the daily - it seems pretty complicated. I think that managing is something you have to learn on the job, despite the classes I've taken for that sort of thing. The same goes for investing money and working on a portfolio - right now I'm not exactly rolling on a huge windfall by any means, so I've never looked into it.

I'm actually really enjoying being paid to be around all kinds of aircraft all day so far, a week or two in. Every time I tow the T-34 here I just can't stop looking at it! I'm hoping that it gets me in contact with people who can help me get to a higher level and a better place so that one day I can do the same thing. And also earn enough to fly for fun and maybe for work as well. Glad you made it in the industry and that you're expanding! Are you rotor wing or fixed -considering it's an air ambulance company I'm guessing rotary?

Chris

PS

I don't see me ever going back to the airlines. But I also don't see me flying a Piaggio for much longer either. Who knows what fate has in store.

Out of curiosity, which Piaggio do you fly currently? The P.180 with the double turboprops in the back? I'd love to hear what you think of them, I've always wondered what they fly like!

 

[jordane93]

Trying to get a Line Service job. A lot of places want full time. I am still a student so I told them I could give them full time for about 2 months and then I could only work 3-4 days a week once school starts. Not really a big struggle but I never had an aviation related job and I want the experience

 

[Captain]

Out of curiosity, which Piaggio do you fly currently? The P.180 with the double turboprops in the back? I'd love to hear what you think of them, I've always wondered what they fly like!

Piaggio only makes the Avanti (twin turboprop pusher), and there are three versions:

-Avanti I (steam gauges)
-Avanti II (Glass (Collins ProLine 21))
-Avanti EVO (?) (it's a Avanti II with the PT6A-66B engines, 6 blade symatar props and a fuel cell in the closet for another 45 minutes of range)

They all fly the same...fast and high (for a TP). I typically cruise at 365 TAS at FL330 or so. The ceiling is FL410 and it can actually hit it unlike the CRJ I flew. Ask Pinnicle about that...

It has a 5'10" cabin and is conversation quiet. I wear a Telex 5x5 pro headset. It's a single ear piece headset. The fuselage provides 20% of the lift and that allows a 34% reduction of the main wing span. Read less drag.

The whole plane is about efficiency. The main wing is mounted aft because the most efficient place for any wing is in the middle of the fuesalage. But you don't want a wing spar going through the cabin so aft they moved it. That required the forward wing to hold up the nose.

The elevator provides pitch control and there is another huge drag savings. Most planes have the elevator providing a down force to balance the plane in level flight. With a Piaggio, all lifting surfaces provide positive lift...ie, no wasted drag. The only time the elevator pushes down is on takeoff to rotate and landing to flare. It's positive or neutral all other phases of flight.

With a complete laminar body and wing with very high wing loading it handles like its on rails. I tell people it's like a hydrofoil if you've ever rode one. When the boat is in the harbor going slow it bobs around like all boats. But when it gets up to speed and the entire weight of the boat is supported by those small foils (high wing loading) it cuts through the water and chop and makes for a very stable ride.

The cockpit is sorta cramped. I'm 6'4" but get in okay with technique and am relatively comfortable once in position. But I have about a 2 to 2.5 hour butt and it's time to land after that. I, in no way, want MORE gas in the closet!

If I had all the money in the world and could afford any plane I would by a Piaggio. Mostly because of what I said above but also because I am a pilot. A Piaggio is a single pilot plane so I wouldn't need to hire a copilot. That means I wouldn't have to worry about my family plans getting screwed up by some copilot calling in sick with a runny nose or whatever. Just jump in and go.

One down side is it's made in Italy so all the parts need to be bought in Euros...not a favorable exchange rate right now. Also, Piaggio closes down for the month of August. It's an Itallian thing.

All and all I'd say a Piaggio is a great plane for its mission. KBOS to KPBI is about the range you're looking at. Any further and you're gonna need to stop. (my record is Scottsdale, Arizona to Jacksonville, Florida. Obviously I had some awesome winds aloft helping!)

They retail new for just under 8 I think but used ones are VERY cheap. Whatever you do, don't buy a former Avantair Piaggio. Hate to say that, but it's the truth.

 

[overdrive148]

Trying to get a Line Service job. A lot of places want full time. I am still a student so I told them I could give them full time for about 2 months and then I could only work 3-4 days a week once school starts. Not really a big struggle but I never had an aviation related job and I want the experience

I found the operations/line job that I have now through the forum here actually, asking for interview advice on another application I had in when one of the participants said his cousin ran the airport in Shawnee. Got an interview and got the job. Aviation is turning out to be a very small community - who knows where the people you meet in it will take you?

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Piaggio only makes the Avanti (twin turboprop pusher), and there are three versions:

P.180 is cool, but if I were buying a personal Piaggio, I'd get a P.136. High wing twin flying boat.

 

[jordane93]

I found the operations/line job that I have now through the forum here actually, asking for interview advice on another application I had in when one of the participants said his cousin ran the airport in Shawnee. Got an interview and got the job. Aviation is turning out to be a very small community - who knows where the people you meet in it will take you?

Yea for sure. I'm just going to keep showing up at the airport and making calls. A few days after my Commercial check ride, which was about 2 weeks I got in touch with this aerial photographer in LI. He flies out of Republic and he said I could go up flying for him. He is a photographer for some newspaper in the city and has is aerial photography as a side/part time business. Its kind like an on call/on demand deal so I'm still trying to find another steady job.

 

[Blimpin]

The 170 was drastically underpowered, had a terrible lean, needed bigger flight controls but other than that was fun to fly. I flew with an old goodyear guy while I was training in the A60 and his comments were that the A60 handed just like a GZ-19 did

It was that self imposed gangsta lean! that ridiculous huge HD sign that, from what I've been told, was broken more than it worked!

 

[denverpilot]

At the time NetJets started at 27k or so. This was pre-contract at NetJets. So I talked with my wife and we decided to decline the interview. Worst decision of my life.

Time value of money would disagree, but that depends a lot on what you did with the higher pay and how many years it would have taken to catch up to it from behind.

Even if you spent all of it, I suspect at least back then, your family was more comfortable at the higher salary level than they would have been with the pay cut.

We can only see what's actually happening and not the future, which is what makes it interesting in the end. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. Should'a, could'a, would'a. We've all been there.

 

[Zeldman]

How was bush piloting for you? I've seen it as pretty rough and tumble - a great place to hone in your real skills of flying. Real stick and rudder and observation and making things work. I've never been to Alaska but an internet friend of mine works at the weather station in Fairbanks, and he describes it as a pretty harsh place at times.

Flying in Alaska has been one of the greatest jobs I have ever had. I pretty much loaded, fueled, unloaded, briefed passengers, carried US mail, carried just about everything else including dead bodies, carried a dead moose once, dead seals, pretty much anything the Eskimo eats I have carried it, smelled it and tasted it. And the smells. In summer when everything starts thawing out, it will stink. I lived in a village that used honey buckets, even though the village had a sewer system.

VFR weather could be 500 and 1. You will be expected to fly in that. Some pilots just could not do that. I have had severe icing in summer. IFR is pretty much out of radar contact unless you are near Fairbanks, Anchorage or Juneau, so expect holds unless you are talking to the other pilots on a different frequency.

From October until February you will get a lot of night time flying. Before the snow accumulates it is DARK. I mean you will be flying by reference to instruments even though it is clear and a million. Fall and spring can bring white outs, which you still might have 10 miles visibility, you just can't see anything because everything is white. A white out does not mean it is snowing. It has to do with the angle of the sun, overcast skies and the snow on the ground.

Living in a village can be a little primitive. I lived 100 feet from the trading post and it took 2 minutes to walk there. In winter it took 20 minutes to get dressed for the 2 minute walk. Temperatures, I have seen -62F in Fairbanks, up to 99F also in Fairbanks. I left Fairbanks one day at -10F and flew to Juneau and the temp was 57F.

I lived there for 7 years, mostly in north and northwest Alaska. I flew 6500 hours in that time, pretty much evenly between singles and twins. I thought I was old to be flying the bush, until I met another pilot that had been flying the bush for 50 years. I enjoyed the heck out of Alaska.

 

[Blimpin]

I also didn't exactly fall in love with the being away from home almost all of the time - I know it's part and parcel of the aviation industry, especially for pilots, but different cities all over the world on a daily basis away from family and possibly one of my own later in life didn't exactly jive with me.

I then kind of considered corporate flying but that's also a lot of hours and turbine time and different ratings. But while I'd be far away sometimes, I'd be on a semi-vacation with the company instead of shacking up in a hotel room day in day out. I think I'd like the personal nature of it as well, but then again, ATP preferred, a couple thousand hours, and a type rating at least. Bush piloting and crop dusting and other kinds of jobs became interesting at the same time.

It sounds like you are passionate about aviation and really want to fly but, like many, did not think out your career choice before enrolling. The reality is this... unless you are very lucky initially or have lots of seniority, you are going to be hard pressed to find any professional pilot job (and I'm not talking about time building jobs like instructing, banners, etc) that doesn't involve spending night away from home. You're going to have to either accept that or not fly. And it's a lifestyle you're going to have to embrace for the first few years to first decade. If you can't wrap around that, don't waste the time, huge amounts of money and years off your life chasing ratings and hours. Switch now. I'm not saying that at 23 it's too late to get your start, but at that age, you're going to have to at least set goals man and work towards them. You got that piece of paper that says you got an education, and that'll be just fine to get you a job serving tables. But now you need to target a path... flying, AVO management, pumping fuel into wings for low money, etc. You can't wait and expect the industry to change to have your desired outcome. Some things are just black and white. I'm just being honest man. Pick a path now and set your eyes on it. Stop waffling or you'll never be on the other side of the curve

 

[kayoh190]

But while I'd be far away sometimes, I'd be on a semi-vacation with the company instead of shacking up in a hotel room day in day out. I think I'd like the personal nature of it as well, but then again, ATP preferred, a couple thousand hours, and a type rating at least. Bush piloting and crop dusting and other kinds of jobs became interesting at the same time.

Everyone else has given some great advice. I think you'll also find that your priorities will change as you get older. I had a great time partying in Costa Rica, Paris, or wherever else on the company dime. It's definitely a lot better than many of the overnights I have now as an airline puke. But here's the thing: as I got older, it became important to just be home. Drinking in Cabo with your FO gets old, and soon you begin to realize that it's not really a vacation when your friends and/or loved ones aren't there.

Of course I don't expect you to make decisions based on how you might be down the road, but it's something to consider. I'm not one that thinks there's a right or wrong when it comes to what you do in this profession, but like the airplane you're flying, the novelty of the destination will likely wear off at some point as well.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Blimpin' ain't easy. Somebody had to say it. Nice write up!

Cafe Press actually sells that slogan on a T Shirt.

And no, I'm not married.

And yes, it is a long and complicated inside joke.

 

[Art VanDelay]

If I hadn't turned down the ATC interview I might have been retired for a few years already.

Retirement ? See, that's what I fear - you guys look forward to it. That's the really BIG difference.

 

[Everskyward]

"You guys" meaning who? I only speak for myself.

What is fearful about it anyway?

 

[Slipkid65]

It's definitely not a career for the weak of heart. I got lucky, and got most of the bad "stuff" out of my system prior to age 30 (Bankruptcies, furloughs, chapter 7s etc.). I got hired by my 8th airline (not counting a 135 charter and a corporate gig) at age 31, and have been there ever since (I'm 49).

If the airlines are your goal, you need time, time and more time, preferably MEL PIC turbine, as early as you can get it. Seniority is life at an airline, and the more you have, the better your life is.

The entry level regional jobs, to put it bluntly, suck, BUT they do fly your butt off, and will prepare you to be competitive for the next level.