Still in shock -- lost a wonderful lady yesterday

N5922S

N5922S

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N5922S
Debra Birch was doing her 3rd solo (T&Gs) at KJSO when she attempted a go-around and pulled up too steeply -- stall/spin into a hangar. She did not survive. Life is such a *****. :(:mad::no:
 
in addition to the family's loss, the poor CFI now has to deal with both his personal loss and a 709 ride
 
Whats disturbing also, is how the Jabiru broke apart. had the wings held on the outcome might have been different.
 
What a terrible tragedy.

I think it's a problem that CFI's (at least the few I've flown with) don't focus on go-arounds. The only time I ever did them is when it was safer to do so then complete the landing, which wasn't all that often. I think a lot of low-time students in that position are already flustered with whatever caused the need for a go-around and don't fully take in the go-around process itself.

IMO, CFI's should have their students do a bunch of intentional go-arounds during training, both planned ahead and as a surprise, so it becomes second nature. The only time I've ever done an intentional go-around is during my checkride when the DPE surprised me at 100 AGL with "Let's pretend a truck just pulled out on the runway. What do you do?"

I don't mean to detract from this thread. I just think a lesson can be derived from it.
 
Sorry to hear that - I'll keep this in mind with my students.
 
MassPilot said:
What a terrible tragedy.

I think it's a problem that CFI's (at least the few I've flown with) don't focus on go-arounds. The only time I ever did them is when it was safer to do so then complete the landing, which wasn't all that often. I think a lot of low-time students in that position are already flustered with whatever caused the need for a go-around and don't fully take in the go-around process itself.

IMO, CFI's should have their students do a bunch of intentional go-arounds during training, both planned ahead and as a surprise, so it becomes second nature. The only time I've ever done an intentional go-around is during my checkride when the DPE surprised me at 100 AGL with "Let's pretend a truck just pulled out on the runway. What do you do?"

I don't mean to detract from this thread. I just think a lesson can be derived from it.
Click to expand...
Instructors should already be doing that. 14 CFR 61.87(d)15
 
Perhaps this is why my instructor didn't do T&G's (still don't do them). But this is about go-arounds. I haven't done one in a while. I should brush up.
 
Intentional go-arounds were part of my teaching process as they are required to be. It is not only a requirement to be demonstrated on a check ride, but is vital to have the confidence and ability to make that last min decision to go around. I would imagine there are a lot of landing accidents that can be attributed to pilots being afraid to go around for one reason or another.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Perhaps this is why my instructor didn't do T&G's (still don't do them). But this is about go-arounds. I haven't done one in a while. I should brush up.
Click to expand...

Not sure what's to brush up on. I think it's more of a frame of mind then a skill. Some might think a go around = failure, so they don't wish to do it.

Well, I take that back. If you never do touch and go's, their might be a little training in a go-around, or you might forget to clean up.
 
If you're holding the yoke in your left hand and do a go around with a lot of nose-up trim, it may push back suddenly enough to slip past your thumb. I teach students to rotate their hand around during a go around so that the yoke is positioned against the "heel" of the hand. Then, if there is a sudden pitch up tendency, the yoke cannot push back any further. The hand acts as a pitch "stop".
 
Wow this is horrible.

Being a student myself it really hits home for me, considering I had to do a go around after a mishap during touch down just weeks ago, I feel really fortunate because I was pretty shaken up.


RIP
 
Hi,

Terrible pictures - very sad. Condolences to all friends and family.

The go around should be a non-event. How did it go so wrong (I have read the posts)? You apply power, maintain height, obtain air speed and perform a positive climb out on the dead side to re-join the circuit.

Very sad - so sorry to hear. RIP.

Regards
John
 
I had to do a go-around on my second "solo" in the pattern because of a 6 knot crosswind. I laugh about it now, but when I was flaring and things were going wacky as a 10+ hour student, I was terrified.

I'm thankful my CFI didn't solo me until we had done quite a few go-arounds. Full power, firm grip on yoke, nose down for speed, milk flaps up as airspeed increases, climb.
 
Mafoo said:
Not sure what's to brush up on. I think it's more of a frame of mind then a skill. Some might think a go around = failure, so they don't wish to do it.

Well, I take that back. If you never do touch and go's, their might be a little training in a go-around, or you might forget to clean up.
Click to expand...

I know there are tons of accidents that could have been prevented with a go-around, but this one is a case of a botched go-around.

They're not hard, but there is a bit of a technique to it. Pitching for the right airspeed and retracting flaps properly is something that needs to be practiced.
 
:(:(:(
 
Mafoo said:
If you never do touch and go's, their might be a little training in a go-around, or you might forget to clean up.
Click to expand...
I agree that if you don't practice T&G's you may not be well versed on reconfiguring for a go around.

When I was a young student pilot I had my instructor declare a simulated Go Around that went bad while I was training for my PPL.
I slammed down onto the runway hard because of my confusion of the proper order to reconfigure for a go around, I pulled the flaps
up then pitched up and before I could push the throttle in we had landed with a big thump.
We were only 10 feet off the runway when I stalled the plane so it was more embarrassing than dangerous but had it been at TPA
it could have been a whole different story.

Point of my story is that it taught my instructor to teach his students what is expected of them when initiating a go around.
 
MassPilot said:
What a terrible tragedy.

I think it's a problem that CFI's (at least the few I've flown with) don't focus on go-arounds. The only time I ever did them is when it was safer to do so then complete the landing, which wasn't all that often. I think a lot of low-time students in that position are already flustered with whatever caused the need for a go-around and don't fully take in the go-around process itself.

IMO, CFI's should have their students do a bunch of intentional go-arounds during training, both planned ahead and as a surprise, so it becomes second nature. The only time I've ever done an intentional go-around is during my checkride when the DPE surprised me at 100 AGL with "Let's pretend a truck just pulled out on the runway. What do you do?"

I don't mean to detract from this thread. I just think a lesson can be derived from it.
Click to expand...


Granted my sample pool is small, but I don't see this as a problem. All 3 CFIs that I flew with as a student were very concerned with go arounds and did exactly what you describe...intentional go around, late go arounds, "there's a deer on the runway", "Hey, look, there's an Allegro upside down on the runway, now what?" all the way to "DEER!" just before touchdown.

As a private pilot, I think it's up to YOU to do this on a regular basis. You don't want to wait until you get a BFR and then practice it one day, one flight...that's like dieting on your birthday and wondering why it doesn't work.
 
flav8r said:
I agree that if you don't practice T&G's you may not be well versed on reconfiguring for a go around.
Click to expand...

T&G does not equal go around. The order of operations is different, and the priorities are different.
I am not a fan of T&Gs, as the order of operations get burned in your head and can bite you on a go around.

T&G:
1 - Raise flaps all at once
2 - Apply throttle
3 - Monitor airspeed
4 - Pitch Up
5 - Establish Climb

Go around -
1 - Apply throttle
2 - Pitch Up
3 - Monitor airspeed
4 - Establish climb
5 - Raise flaps in stages

Get those in the wrong order on a go around, and an accident is likely.
 
Sorry to see this. When I first started training in 1992 I was soloed at 6 hours. I quit and restarted 5 years ago. My current CFI told me I was lucky to be alive, with a story like this I now understand. (Not saying low time was the cause, just my experience level was not enough). When I was training with him he always told me go arounds were free, I still use this in my IFR training and my tail wheel training.
 
Luvrv8 said:
Sorry to see this. When I first started training in 1992 I was soloed at 6 hours. I quit and restarted 5 years ago. My current CFI told me I was lucky to be alive, with a story like this I now understand. (Not saying low time was the cause, just my experience level was not enough). When I was training with him he always told me go arounds were free, I still use this in my IFR training and my tail wheel training.
Click to expand...

Why were you lucky to be alive? Was he commenting on the 6hr to solo?:yikes:
I'll wave a huge BS flag on that.:mad::mad::rolleyes2:

I soloed in 6 hrs, took my check ride in 42 hrs, it was 1974 at an aviation college. I had a couple of extra screw around solo hours.

With the proper syllabus, all maneuvers to proficiency to include go-arounds can be covered and solo in 6 hrs.

I'm still alive, still flying, 38 years later.
 
Re read what I wrote, I did say I was not ready but at 19 I didn't know any beter and after starting training again it reminded me of what little I did know and shouldn't have been signed off.
 
IIRC Jabiru uses the center Y-stick. I never was a big fan of them because you cannot use both hands in case your arm cramps up or a trim runs away. I am not fond of Cirrus stick handle for the same reason either, but they seem to fly well enough...

In any case it's terrible when student screws up like that. She probably was well on her way to fly and would've handled it easily with a shade more practice, unless it was a control malfunction of some kind.

P.S. I think I was ok to solo when I did, in benign conditions at least.
 
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I have a Y stick in my Zenith 801 and I don't see any of your concerns to be an issue..... With that said.... The more I read about this tragic event the more I really feel for the ladies survivors and the CFI..... One of the articles said her husband was at the airport and witnessed the crash... Collectively, there is a ton of knowledge here among us and in the event the husband does visit this site later to maybe get some form of closeure I would hope he can see all of our comments as polite, constructive and sensitive to severity of this terrible accident.... :sad::sad:.

A future pilot has flown her last flight...... Godspeed ma'am..:(
 
zaitcev said:
IIRC Jabiru uses the center Y-stick. I never was a big fan of them because you cannot use both hands in case your arm cramps up or a trim runs away. I am not fond of Cirrus stick handle for the same reason either, but they seem to fly well enough...

In any case it's terrible when student screws up like that. She probably was well on her way to fly and would've handled it easily with a shade more practice, unless it was a control malfunction of some kind.

P.S. I think I was ok to solo when I did, in benign conditions at least.
Click to expand...

N801BH said:
I have a Y stick in my Zenith 801 and I don't see any of your concerns to be an issue..... With that said.... The more I read about this tragic event the more I really feel for the ladies survivors and the CFI..... One of the articles said her husband was at the airport and witnessed the crash... Collectively, there is a ton of knowledge here among us and in the event the husband does visit this site later to maybe get some form of closeure I would hope he can see all of our comments as polite, constructive and sensitive to severity of this terrible accident.... :sad::sad:.

A future pilot has flown her last flight...... Godspeed ma'am..:(
Click to expand...

Could this explain the pitch up on go around? Trimmed for landing, dumping flaps and hitting the throttle gives a definite nose up attitude that a student may feel uncomfortable man handling to over power the trim setting and maintain proper pitch until trim can be adjusted.

Several RV's can do this, one I know of crashed just like this because the pilot was unsure of how much force to apply, :mad2:
 
GA's aren't one-size fits all, and some differences in technique are necessary. I think specific M/M training is mandatory, especially as the planes get bigger with engine size and required control pressure inputs to match.
 
This is just so saddening. If you do a google search for her name you'll see her "first solo" photo from Nov. 7 where she's holding up her cut-off shirt tail. We all understand what a happy occasion that was for her. Such a horrid tragedy.
 
MassPilot said:
What a terrible tragedy.

I think it's a problem that CFI's (at least the few I've flown with) don't focus on go-arounds. The only time I ever did them is when it was safer to do so then complete the landing, which wasn't all that often. I think a lot of low-time students in that position are already flustered with whatever caused the need for a go-around and don't fully take in the go-around process itself.

IMO, CFI's should have their students do a bunch of intentional go-arounds during training, both planned ahead and as a surprise, so it becomes second nature. The only time I've ever done an intentional go-around is during my checkride when the DPE surprised me at 100 AGL with "Let's pretend a truck just pulled out on the runway. What do you do?"

I don't mean to detract from this thread. I just think a lesson can be derived from it.
Click to expand...

I prime all my pre-solo students for go-arounds....they've seen at least a couple of deer, multiple dogs and at least one baby crawl onto the runway before they ever get to solo.

Definitely a sad, sad event. I've done some instructing in the J250 and it's a nice little airplane....but somewhat disconcerting to see how it came apart.
 
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