STC approval authorizes installation of two SureFly Ignition Modules.

Scrabo

Scrabo

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Scrabo
Color me stupid, but what happens if the alternator craps out and the battery drains?
 
Yay. Not interested.
 
I popped by the booth at OSH. Their STC for dual requires a second independent power source. Right now they are using a 3rd party battery good for 3+ hours.
 
Initial Fix said:
I popped by the booth at OSH. Their STC for dual requires a second independent power source. Right now they are using a 3rd party battery good for 3+ hours.
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So how does that battery keep a full charge? Also tended to by the alternator or what?
 
In what way does it move the risk:reward ratio?
 
Thanks. Something to think about with the recent mag issues.
 
Initial Fix said:
It’s connected to the bus to keep a charge. Here is the unit they promote. https://www.tcwtech.com/product/integrated-battery-back-up-system-ibbs/
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The battery device looks nice.
I do have a SureFly but at this point, I would not be comfortable getting rid of my Slick mag and running with two SureFly electronic ignition modules.

Great if other people want to do it. That is just past my comfort level.

Edit: I might get the battery device for a power backup for my existing SureFly. Still only going to run with one SureFly but the downside of the SureFly is if the Alternator or something in that path craps out then my SureFly doesn't last long and then I am only on one mag. Add this battery device and I feel better about my [one] SureFly. Sounds like the only downside to the battery is 3 lbs and the cost.

Clip from the battery device installation instructions:

"9. When using the IBBS product to provide back-up power to an electronic ignition system it MUST be used to back-up one and only one electronic ignition module. Do not use one IBBS to back up both electronic ignition modules in a dual electronic ignition system. Follow the instructions per the electronic ignition manufacture. Do not connect any other loads to the IBBS when using the IBBS to power an electronic ignition module. Do not use the IBBS system to back-up a dual ignition system having only a single power input. Do not use a single IBBS system to back-up two electronic ignition systems. "
 
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Regardless of the debate of dual vs single …. The tech works. No 500 hour overhaul of magnetos is especially appealing. The battery based second power source for the dual setup adds 2 AMUs plus installation.

I’m likely installing at least a single ECI. What I haven’t seen are real numbers for performance improvements. Aviation consumer has been tracking the development for awhile, but they only talk in generalities of improvements.

www.aviationconsumer.com

Electroairs Electronic Ignition: Performance - Aviation Consumer

Magnetos have been around so long that one cant help but wonder if Benjamin Franklin went directly from his supposed kite-into-a-thunderstorm electricity experiment to his basement where he built the first one. ü
www.aviationconsumer.com www.aviationconsumer.com
 
I’ve been following the thread to see what the performance gains are.
Haven't they run an engine back to back on a test stand?
What is their life expectancy?
 
manac said:
I’ve been following the thread to see what the performance gains are.
Haven't they run an engine back to back on a test stand?
What is their life expectancy?
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I have been running a shurfly mag with the variable timing for about three years on my piper arrow. There are no horsepower gains. The FAA said that they are not allowed to increase the horsepower of the engine without recertifying the aircraft for the extra horsepower.
What you do get is a much hotter/energetic spark with better timing to start. so you get much easier starts particularly with a hot engine. The big difference is I can pull my mixture way, way back so I can cruise comfortably burning 8.7 gallons an hour. This feature along with a reliable fuel totalizer allows me to effectively extend my useful range, making the most of the 48 gallons that I can bring with me. Plus the reliability factor. 3000 hrs. is the published life expectancy.
 
Does the two mag system notify the pilot if a mag or a backup battery has failed?
 
@Morgan3820 thanks for sharing your experience with fuel burn. I’ve read 10% gain which is about what what you are reporting.
 
Morgan3820 said:
The big difference is I can pull my mixture way, way back so I can cruise comfortably burning 8.7 gallons an hour.
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um, I do that in my stock mag setup Arrow. 10 years running consistently on 8.5 to 9gph, stock fuel flow gauge too. Fuel consumption verifed at the refueling pump. I can run even leaner at the expense of 5 knots of airspeed, 8gph at WOT at 8k and without coughing. 8.5-9gph gets me 128-130 knots true at gross, 132-135knots true solo (above 6k), depending on atmospheric conditions. Not flexing, just saying the case against stock magged lawnmowers is overstated. All settings WOT, I don't fly part-throttle, so the spread before hesitation is apples to apples.
 
Two channels, backup batteries, no big deal. Far superior to mags. Chance of both going out is quite low; ever have an electronic ignition failure in a car? I've not, in more than a million miles. Secondary alternators are a thing, as well.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
ever have an electronic ignition failure in a car?
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Yep. A few times, a very long time ago when they were relatively new. So far I've seen about a dozen low time SureFly failures in the last year. History repeating itself? I know guys that replace coil packs in their cars every few years.

By your logic, with newer car engines being so reliable, they'd be perfect replacements for our old dinosaurs. Yet for some strange reason when you bolt one on an airplane, they fall apart. All the EI systems, including SureFly, have had issues with RF when installed in an aircraft.

Electronics seldom give any warning before total failure. Ask the guys with full ElectroAir systems how quiet things suddenly get.

A data sheet, a brochure, and some inferred reliability data doesn't make something "far superior". Instead of touting a 3000 hour tbo, they should get them to make it past 500 hours reliably.
 
tyndall said:
So far I've seen about a dozen low time SureFly failures in the last year.
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Just curious. Of the failures which you saw, how many were running with fixed timing and how many with advance timing? Just wondering if there is anything obvious there or not. Anything you notice with the failures that provides additional info?
 
tyndall said:
Yep. A few times, a very long time ago when they were relatively new. So far I've seen about a dozen low time SureFly failures in the last year. History repeating itself? I know guys that replace coil packs in their cars every few years.

By your logic, with newer car engines being so reliable, they'd be perfect replacements for our old dinosaurs. Yet for some strange reason when you bolt one on an airplane, they fall apart. All the EI systems, including SureFly, have had issues with RF when installed in an aircraft.

Electronics seldom give any warning before total failure. Ask the guys with full ElectroAir systems how quiet things suddenly get.

A data sheet, a brochure, and some inferred reliability data doesn't make something "far superior". Instead of touting a 3000 hour tbo, they should get them to make it past 500 hours reliably.
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Oh, please. Apples and oranges. Run a car engine at ~2,750 RPM and it will essentially run forever. It certainly won't blow a cylinder head off of the jug, or have a stuck valve. But they don't make much power at those speeds. But Rotax seems to have somewhat more modern engines figured out; when the rumored Six appears, LyConti may be a bit shakey.
 
Automotive ECU failures certainly do occur.

I have had 2 personal instances of an automotive electronic ignition module failure in an otherwise robust GM HEI system years ago (like an off switch, dead engine). Easy fix, keep a spare module in the glovebox. Caveat - older electronic technology.

Time will tell, and hopefully anecdotal testimonials won’t skew the perception of actual reliability (or non-reliability).
 
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