Status of FAA Third Class Medical Exemption

My impression is that maybe 90% of non-professional pilots are Republicans, and that Democrats generally hate GA more than the Republicans. Although neither party really likes it.

90% of non-professional pilots are upper middle class or higher, male, middle aged or older, and white. That's an overwhelmingly GOP demographic (though a few of us are those things without being GOP voters - there are always exceptions.)
 
But seriously, flyover state Republicans tend to be pretty big proponents of GA. Lots of rural airport infrastructure improvements (or pork, depending on your perspective) thanks to Republicans in congress.
 
Guys, take the politics to Spin Zone

I understand your wanting to stay out of the politics, but congress is now involved and the third class medical is becoming a political issue. It would have been nice if Huerta would have done something other than completely ignoring the issue.
 
I understand your wanting to stay out of the politics, but congress is now involved and the third class medical is becoming a political issue. It would have been nice if Huerta would have done something other than completely ignoring the issue.

I agree. Both EAA, AOPA and their members have expressed their passion and dedication to this issue and the FAA showed us just what they think of us by having Huerta showed up to AirVenture with nothing to say on the biggest issue in GA.
 
I agree. Both EAA, AOPA and their members have expressed their passion and dedication to this issue and the FAA showed us just what they think of us by having Huerta showed up to AirVenture with nothing to say on the biggest issue in GA.

That's true, but I was really talking about when EAA and AOPA first requested the exemption and the administrator simply didn't have the time to deal with our trivial little problem. We were forced to go to congress when this could have been handled within the agency.
 
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Kinda funny, the country is ramping up with more rules for everything, just nutso rules. And pilots seem surprised they can't get rid of a rule. Guess what you can't get rid of all the other ones in your life either, unless you replace them with something more restrictive.
 
Guess some are not watching closely enough. The GOP (and I am not GOP myself) want smaller, less intrusive government, at least that's whats on their pamphlets.

The Dems (and I am not one of these either) are not bashfull about driving for the largest, most oppressive, most debt ridden, most grinding and intimidating central government possible.

Wonder which model would lead to a faster, more responsive FAA?
 
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Guess some are not watching closely enough. The GOP (and I am not GOP myself) want smaller, less intrusive government, at least that's whats on their pamphlets.

The Dems (and I am not one of these either) are not bashfull about driving for the largest, most oppressive, most debt ridden, most grinding and intimidating central government possible.

Wonder which model would lead to a faster, more responsive FAA?

As far as GA is concerned:

One will lead to an expensive and non-responsive FAA.

The other will lead to a non-responsive and expensive FAA.

The goings-on at the FAA aren't event a worthwhile sideshow for either of the parties.
 
Guess some are not watching closely enough. The GOP (and I am not GOP myself) want smaller, less intrusive government, at least that's whats on their pamphlets.

The Dems (and I am not one of these either) are not bashfull about driving for the largest, most oppressive, most debt ridden, most grinding and intimidating central government possible.

Wonder which model would lead to a faster, more responsive FAA?

The Reps tend to defend economic freedoms. The Dems tend to defend social freedoms. Neither seem willing to ACTUALLY reduce the size of government (as opposed to what it says in their propaganda), and the only time in recent history that the debt was reduced, power was divided between the major parties.
 
Wonder which model would lead to a faster, more responsive FAA?

Hi CTLSi.
If one was to design an AI program / app. that takes into account recent experience (learning), the algorithm would look something like this:
A group that is this country illegally, has no respect for the law, is part of Hwood degenerate group, is likely to be easily persuaded by rhetoric alone and facts don't matter, to vote a certain way, have the willingness, and ability, to participate in the 30K dinners, would get attention and response, maybe.
[FONT=&quot]Are you missing any of those attributes? Sorry, you were born here, your parents and you built this country up, you paid taxes all your life etc., you must be a second class citizen, on a lower level than an illegal that came here and remained here for a while, did not pay any taxes, etc., and don't count. We will not pay any attention to your needs or requests for the 3rd class reconsideration. TV[/FONT]
 
How many illegal immigrants can afford $30,000 dinners? :confused:
 
How many illegal immigrants can afford $30,000 dinners? :confused:
Hi Richard.
It's an OR function, not AND.
That said, there are some out there, look no further than the Illegal Producer that was given time, many hours, for his movie, by many of of the Networks to promote the Illegal > Legal theory.
He actually thinks the the Illegals are better, a step above, the borne in this country citizens. TV
 
The first president to propose ga user fees was Reagan. Every president since has proposed GA user fees, both dems and repubs.

Reagan fired the Air Traffic Controllers and their illegal union when they tried to extort higher wages in the middle of Carter's recession. Reagan cleaned up ATC - it was starting to look like Obama's FAA.
 
Hi Richard.
It's an OR function, not AND.
That said, there are some out there, look no further than the Illegal Producer that was given time, many hours, for his movie, by many of of the Networks to promote the Illegal > Legal theory.
He actually thinks the the Illegals are better, a step above, the borne in this country citizens. TV

I don't know who you're referring to, but both ends of the political spectrum have their nut cases.

I'm not clear on what any of this has to do with FAA medical certificates, though.
 
Hi Richard.

I'm not clear on what any of this has to do with FAA medical certificates, though.
The same thing as this
>> How many illegal immigrants can afford $30,000 dinners? :confused:<<
has to do with it.
Just trying to help, you asked, I answered. Maybe I am missing something?
You can keep going, this is getting way off topic, I am out. TV
 
Hey guys just wondering, if news about FAA 3rd class medical reform made the headlines on news channels like CNN for example, I am wondering what is the reaction of the general public going to be? Probably would be an outcry to keep the status quo right? But if we explain statistics on the news to them regarding the extemely low percentage of fatal accidents attributed to medical incapacitation, comparing to other risky activities like the annual fatal car accident rates, would they change their mind and be supportive of us? What about unfortunate and frustrated SI medical pilots explaining their sad and painful stories of how hard and expensive it is to get a medical, especially if you have medical conditions which are trivial and not likely to fall out of the sky when flying, would they side with the pilots?

Bottom line, is would the general public listen to reason if we explained the truth about the horrors of the medical certification process?
 
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Hey guys just wondering, if news about FAA 3rd class medical reform made the headlines on news channels like CNN for example, I am wondering what is the reaction of the general public going to be? Probably would be an outcry to keep the status quo right? But if we explain statistics on the news to them regarding the extemely low percentage of fatal accidents attributed to medical incapacitation, comparing to other risky activities like the annual fatal car accident rates, would they change their mind and be supportive of us? What about unfortunate and frustrated SI medical pilots explaining their sad and painful stories of how hard and expensive it is to get a medical, especially if you have medical conditions which are trivial and not likely to fall out of the sky when flying, would they side with the pilots?

Bottom line, is would the general public listen to reason if we explained the truth about the horrors of the medical certification process?

The general public doesn't know **** about third class medicals /sport pilot / etc. and it won't be on CNN because no one will care.

As long as we are still required to file flight plans and get permission from the tower every time we fly, the public will be good with it. :rolleyes:
 
Hi Richard.


The same thing as this
>> How many illegal immigrants can afford $30,000 dinners? :confused:<<
has to do with it.
Just trying to help, you asked, I answered. Maybe I am missing something?
You can keep going, this is getting way off topic, I am out. TV

Which has about the same amount to do with it as this:

Hi CTLSi.
If one was to design an AI program / app. that takes into account recent experience (learning), the algorithm would look something like this:
A group that is this country illegally, has no respect for the law, is part of Hwood degenerate group, is likely to be easily persuaded by rhetoric alone and facts don't matter, to vote a certain way, have the willingness, and ability, to participate in the 30K dinners, would get attention and response, maybe.
[FONT=&quot]Are you missing any of those attributes? Sorry, you were born here, your parents and you built this country up, you paid taxes all your life etc., you must be a second class citizen, on a lower level than an illegal that came here and remained here for a while, did not pay any taxes, etc., and don't count. We will not pay any attention to your needs or requests for the 3rd class reconsideration. TV[/FONT]
 
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The general public doesn't know **** about third class medicals /sport pilot / etc. and it won't be on CNN because no one will care.

True. the general public only cares about aviation issues when they affect airline passengers or famous people (and the latter only for a very short time).

As long as we are still required to file flight plans and get permission from the tower every time we fly, the public will be good with it. :rolleyes:

:rofl:
 
Nobody will give a rats ass for some "rich guy" complaining about how hard it is to get a medical.
 
Hey guys just wondering, if news about FAA 3rd class medical reform made the headlines on news channels like CNN for example, I am wondering what is the reaction of the general public going to be? Probably would be an outcry to keep the status quo right? But if we explain statistics on the news to them regarding the extemely low percentage of fatal accidents attributed to medical incapacitation, comparing to other risky activities like the annual fatal car accident rates, would they change their mind and be supportive of us? What about unfortunate and frustrated SI medical pilots explaining their sad and painful stories of how hard and expensive it is to get a medical, especially if you have medical conditions which are trivial and not likely to fall out of the sky when flying, would they side with the pilots?

Bottom line, is would the general public listen to reason if we explained the truth about the horrors of the medical certification process?


If they explained their woes on TV to the general public similarly to how they explain it on the various pilot forums, the general public would demand that third class medical standards be tightened, not eliminated. The outspoken ones the media would select for broadcast would be the nut jobs.
 
Yeah, that's what I was afraid what may happen. I guess we would expect no sympathy from the general public, even if we did explain the actual statistics and true stories to them.

Best that we prevent this from news channels like CNN to be broadcasted to keep this a secret, but like some of you just said, no one would really care about GA and its woes except major airliner crashes.
 
I think we should adopt the same rigorous medical standards for state issued driver's licenses. People drive on state or federal roads all the time, with a 10 second eye-chart BS. Think of the children. And, in the case of drivers, we can point to thousands of deaths on the public highways. Many of which could be eliminated with all the anal probing that goes for a third class med.
 
I think we should adopt the same rigorous medical standards for state issued driver's licenses. People drive on state or federal roads all the time, with a 10 second eye-chart BS. Think of the children. And, in the case of drivers, we can point to thousands of deaths on the public highways. Many of which could be eliminated with all the anal probing that goes for a third class med.

I though you only needed the anal probing if you wanted to fly UFOs...;)
 
All you have to do is fog a mirror and have a pulse to get a license to drive a two and a half ton Suburban at 90 mph in close proximity to stationary objects but you need a complete medical examination to crash your little airplane in a bean field. :dunno:
 
Has anyone considered that the whole approach of both the FAA and AOPA/EAA to the third-class medical conundrum is a completely bass-ackwards, Rube Goldberg approach to the problem?

The problem as I see it is that the requirements for the third-class medical are obsolete. They were based largely on standards developed for military aviators, and date back to a time when airplanes were more physically demanding to fly than they are now. In addition, the standards were developed before modern medicine rendered manageable (or in some cases, curable) many conditions that formerly would have been legitimately grounding.

The FAA's approach to this conundrum is to retain the old standards, which are unnecessarily strict in view of the changes in medicine and in aviation itself; but to also provide a "special issuance" process by which more than 90 percent of the airmen who don't meet the standards can be certified, anyway if they spend enough money and jump through enough hoops.

It's really a bit absurd because the letters that come with every SI confirm the essential disconnect between the medical standards versus what is really necessary for flight safety. The letters state that the airman to whom the certificate has been issued doesn't meet the standards for that certificate, but that his or her continuing to exercise the privileges for which he or she is not qualified will not endanger aviation safety. Doesn't that say something about the standards themselves?

The other alternative is the SP rule and the DL medical, which in most states means little more than that the holder was neither too blind nor too senile to find the DMV office when renewal time rolled around. I say "most" because I recently learned that Pennsylvania actually requires a medical examination to get a non-commercial driver's license. More about that in a moment.

Getting back to aviation, neither the SI approach nor the SP rule address the essential question of why the third-class requirements themselves aren't revisited. Considering that FAA itself approves > 90 percent of SIs after a sufficient amount of bureaucratic rigmarole and hoop-jumping, and further exempts an entire class of pilots who need only prove that they're neither too blind nor too demented to find the nearest DMV office, is it unreasonable to suggest that perhaps the third-class medical standards themselves are the problem?

I mentioned Pennsylvania earlier. They require that a candidate's health care provider sign off on his or her driver's license application. I must say, PennDOT has managed to distill driver fitness into its very essence. The medical statement is on the top of page two of this form.

I really can't think of a good reason why something like that, based on an airman's current medical condition, wouldn't be sufficient for domestic non-commercial flight operations, for light aircraft with six or fewer souls on board. It wouldn't cut it for international flight because of ICAO requirements; but for those who don't fly outside the United States, anyway, the entire third-class medical could be reduced to something very much like the PennDOT requirements, with no reduction in aviation safety.

In fact, it probably would improve safety by reducing the number of aviators who avoid doctors and ignore maladies for fear of losing their medicals.

-Rich
 
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The only purpose of something like that would be for something the FAA can come back and hammer you with post-accident if you lie... which is pretty much the only purpose of the third class as it's used. I think it makes more sense just to do away with the excess paperwork.
 
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