SR22 Instability

[FastEddieB]

Mind you, there are YouTube videos of pilots rolling Cirrus aircraft.. and of more than 7,000 built I'm sure people have done some stupid things in them yet not a single in-flight breakup

Not an inflight breakup, but at least one fatal in FL from a roll gone bad in a Cirrus.

Just a bad idea.

 

[kyleb]

Not an inflight breakup, but at least one fatal in FL from a roll gone bad in a Cirrus.

Just a bad idea.

Weren't those guys doing the "self taught" thing at low altitude? Darwin at work, unfortunately.

 

[FastEddieB]

Weren't those guys doing the "self taught" thing at low altitude? Darwin at work, unfortunately.

When a roll goes south, and there you are inverted and no longer rolling, one of the most powerful instincts in flying is to pull back on the stick. Ask any aerobatic instructor. And at low altitude, that’s that.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Dunno, a sign that says 'Bob here is what we call an 'expert', don't do this at home kids'.

This would be a single use plane. They wouldn't be able to put in the logbook 'no limitations were exceeded' when they return it to a standard AW certificate. Purely a marketing tool.

But then, they dont market to pilots, they just happen to mostly sell to pilots. If you already have 95% of your market segment, there is not much motivation to push further.



I dont consider people doing stupid **** and getting away with it a good marketing tool. If you can fly loops in a Beech 18 or a piston Commander, you can safely do so in a Cirrus.

I agree. They are not selling a light sport amphib...

 

[MauleSkinner]

This would be a single use plane. They wouldn't be able to put in the logbook 'no limitations were exceeded' when they return it to a standard AW certificate. Purely a marketing tool.

Do they change the airworthiness certificate? The former airshow airplane I looked at buying still had its original.

 

[Dean V]

What is this based on? Have you spun a Cirrus, and several other frames to compare? During European certification the aircraft recovered just fine without any kind of abnormal behavior

**they recommend using the chute because, even though we're all "the best pilots we know" most day to day pilots will not be able to recover from a spin.. frankly, the fact that you even entered one would suggest that you were already well behind the aircraft.. so why risk pulling the wings off or dying? Just pull the chute


Go fly one.. the plane is the most stable platform I've flown.. it basically just goes exactly where you point it. If you know how to use the rudder pedals you can hold the plane in a falling leaf stall no problem. The stall is very benign.. my friend didn't even realize we were stalled outside of the audible warning and the airspeed being crazy low. By the way, it will require more disciple to fly than a 172, a Cirrus won't let you drag it in at 55 knots and get away with the kind of sloppy airmanship a Skyhawk will.. but neither will a Mooney, Bonanza, or any real airplane.

People make up this stuff about the Cirrus because they're either grossly misinformed or because they think it's cool for some reason

Have you spun a Cirrus? Is an SR22 approved for spins? What does the SR22 say about spin recovery? Most pilots comply with 91.9(a) and comply with the restrictions in the official AFM information rather than unofficial information in the internet.

 

[Tantalum]

Is an SR22 approved for spins

No. Nor are many other planes

What does the SR22 say about spin recovery?

Pull the chute, as is also the recommended procedure for loss of spatial orientation IMC, and a potential host of other things, including engine failure.. but how many people have successfully recovered from a spin vs how many have died? If you have a (*near) guaranteed means of survival than why not put that in the procedure and use it? Just about everybody knows how to swim, but you still don a life jacket when the going gets tough

 

[weilke]

Do they change the airworthiness certificate? The former airshow airplane I looked at buying still had its original.

If a manufacturer would want to make changes to the plane, e.g. put in a different engine with a inverted oil system, add a fuel de-bubbler etc. they would probably have to put the plane on a 'experimental R&D' AW certificate while those modifications are in place.

You can move a standard AW plane to 'experimental R&D' and move it back after your testing is done. I believe its an IA who inspects the plane and puts an entry in the log 'Plane inspected and found to be in compliance with yadayada....'

Now I don't know the legalities of flying 'aerobatic' maneuvers in a plane that is not aerobatic category (or utility with certain maneuvers listed in the manufacturers limitations).

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

 

[mondtster]

Do they change the airworthiness certificate? The former airshow airplane I looked at buying still had its original.

N9109R is the Younkin Beech 18, which is in the experimental exhibition category according to the FAA registry. So I’d say yes, they are changed if necessary.

 

[SkyDog58]

I can’t read a story or thread about Cirrus and spins without thinking about that tragedy a few years ago at Houston Hobby where the pilot on her third go around retracted flaps while in a slow climbing turn, stalled, spin, and crashed, killing her self and her two passengers. Such a senseless tragedy.

 

[FastEddieB]

I can’t read a story or thread about Cirrus and spins without thinking about that tragedy a few years ago at Houston Hobby where the pilot on her third go around retracted flaps while in a slow climbing turn, stalled, spin, and crashed, killing her self and her two passengers. Such a senseless tragedy.

So damn many links in that chain. I think the main problem was the pilot’s inability to “get down”, leading to each of the go around. Maybe uncomfortable or unskilled at slipping. So sad.

 

[Salty]

I dont consider people doing stupid **** and getting away with it a good marketing tool. If you can fly loops in a Beech 18 or a piston Commander, you can safely do so in a Cirrus.

You should give the marketing folks over at Icon a call and let them know.

 

[Fallsrider]

So damn many links in that chain. I think the main problem was the pilot’s inability to “get down”, leading to each of the go around. Maybe uncomfortable or unskilled at slipping. So sad.

Yeah, the video of that SR20 slamming down onto the car(s) in the parking lot was very chilling. Her passengers were her husband and BIL IIRC. She might have had the same result flying any of several other planes, though.

 

[MauleSkinner]

N9109R is the Younkin Beech 18, which is in the experimental exhibition category according to the FAA registry. So I’d say yes, they are changed if necessary.

I’d guess that’s more for the night show mods than the aerobatics.

 

[mondtster]

I’d guess that’s more for the night show mods than the aerobatics.

Could be, I have no idea. I just was pointing out one example.