Sporty's giving out bad info?

flhrci

flhrci

Final Approach
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David
I was watching the latest Sporty''s weekly video tip just for the heck of it on crosswinds takeoffs.

The very first thing the narrator says is: "Winds seldom blow straight down the runway."

I was like what did he say? I started it over and heard it again. I know they are wrong because runways are typically designed for the average or normal winds for the area.

Geesh.

Not sure what to think about that. I hope that is the only bad fact they have given out.

David
 
Depends on your definitions of "seldom" and "straight down the runway".

I wouldn't say they are wrong.
 
They may be oriented to favor prevailing winds but their statement is still accurate...they're seldom straight down the runway.
 
While they are technically right, they are operationally incorrect.

Winds are very often CLOSE to straight down the runway. Often so close as to make no difference to the pilot. If it makes no difference, there is little point in drawing the distinction....

It also depends where you are. I find it hard to get a challenging crosswind at PAO.
 
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Where I fly, they did a careful wind analysis prior to building the runway. After completing the wind analysis, they determined that about 50% of the time the wind comes from the west. The rest of the time it comes from the east. In order to make a more efficient landing environment, the construction team decided to split the difference and made the runway north-south.
 
As one of my CFIs was so fond of saying, "There's always a crosswind."
 
Matthew said:
As one of my CFIs was so fond of saying, "There's always a crosswind."
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This is actually very correct. If wind is 275 for runway 270 it is a crosswind. While very manageable they are probably historically correct. I have a 270 runway most used at my home base in Indiana. If there is a wind it is usually westerly, usually 250 to 290. Maybe one out of 20 times will I have a direct 270 wind factor.
 
Anymouse said:
Where I fly, they did a careful wind analysis prior to building the runway. After completing the wind analysis, they determined that about 50% of the time the wind comes from the west. The rest of the time it comes from the east. In order to make a more efficient landing environment, the construction team decided to split the difference and made the runway north-south.
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:lol::lol:

I'm usually flying early mornings or late evenings, but at KAPA I'm usually dealing with a significant crosswind on 17/35. Only one flight lately I can remember where the wind was coming relatively straight down the runway. No complaints, makes good practice, but I've always found it a little strange. Or maybe I'm just missing out on the days where the wind's behaving :dunno:
 
flhrci said:
I was watching the latest Sporty''s weekly video tip just for the heck of it on crosswinds takeoffs.

The very first thing the narrator says is: "Winds seldom blow straight down the runway."

I was like what did he say? I started it over and heard it again. I know they are wrong because runways are typically designed for the average or normal winds for the area.

Geesh.

Not sure what to think about that. I hope that is the only bad fact they have given out.

David
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I would have said "practically never" instead of "seldom" .
 
flhrci said:
I know they are wrong because runways are typically designed for the average or normal winds for the area.
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While I'm sure that's an accurate statement in flatland...here in hill country the runways, in many cases, run down the valley or with the ridge regardless of the heading. If the valley or ridge are on a (typically) crosswind heading then runway will be also. Cost effectiveness trumps prevailing winds the vast majority of the time.
 
I have read that many airports have runways that are oriented so that they are in line with the tendencies of the wind direction in the area. My guess is that that works in some airports, but it does not seem to work in many of the airports I use. I think whether it is seldom(whatever that may mean) depends on the airport. I for one enjoy the variation in wind alignment to the runway. As I gain more experience, I find crosswind landings to be less of a chore and more of a fun experience and am almost disappointed when I land without one. In fact, this year I became so used to doing gusty crosswind landings that on a day I had to do a low wind non crosswind landing I was surprised to find it almost more difficult to do than a crosswind landing. Oh well such is life I guess.
 
MAKG1 said:
Winds are very often CLOSE to straight down the runway. Often so close as to make no difference to the pilot. If it makes no difference, there is little point in drawing the distinction....
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Fly a light tailwheel and you'll probably change your mind.
 
Many interesting points of view here. I now agree that Sporty's may be correct in what they say or possibly just could have said it a little better.

David
 
Witin a radius of ten miles near my home drome, four airports have runways that are 7-25, 2-20, 5-23, 6-24 and 18-36. no matter the prevailing wind, 80% of them will have a cross wind if the wind in "right down the runway" at one of them.

Cheers
 
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I just couldn't pass this one up ! My home base is a single 10/28 runway. Probably built to accommodate the prevaling winds, right? Well, 14- 16 knots from 157 mostly with a G stuck in there somewhere doesn't seem to fit that notion. It helps to remind you to think about takeoff controls application, though. I think we should give Sporty's the nod on this one. Maybe they'll declare a POA posters' discount coupon.
 
here at JZP we have 16-34, and wind is usually 88* to one or the other.
If 16 is in use it's because wind is from 94* and if 34 is in use wind is usually from 274*
 
Edgefly said:
I just couldn't pass this one up ! My home base is a single 10/28 runway. Probably built to accommodate the prevaling winds, right? Well, 14- 16 knots from 157 mostly with a G stuck in there somewhere doesn't seem to fit that notion. It helps to remind you to think about takeoff controls application, though. I think we should give Sporty's the nod on this one. Maybe they'll declare a POA posters' discount coupon.
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Been showing restraint for 9 months and this thread smoked you out I see :D

The airport I learned at was on the ridge of a hill, it was laid out due to terrain, if the wind was blowing, it was across the runway.
 
One of the first rules of instruction is to motivate the student to learn the material. You should tell a student WHY they should learn what you are about to teach them.

If the subject is 'Crosswind Landings' a statement like 'Winds are seldom straight down the runway' seems appropriate as it is technically correct.

Using just a 1 degree demarcation you can see for a given runway there is only one match in a possible 360 degrees. Even if you use a demarcation of 10 (the same as the reported winds use) there is only a 1 in 36 match. Even if you assume you could use the opposite runway for a given wind set there is only a 2 in 36 match (reduced 1 in 18).

So, best case there is a 1 in 18 chance of the winds going straight down the runway (and I'm being very generous there). That would line up squarely with the statement that 'winds seldom blow straight down the runway'.

With that I'd say the answer to the thread title is 'No'.
 
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Captain said:
One of the first rules of instruction is to motivate the student to learn the material. You should tell a student WHY they should learn what you are about to teach them.

If the subject is 'Crosswind Landings' a statement like 'Winds are seldom straight down the runway' seems appropriate as it is technically correct.

Using just a 1 degree demarcation you can see for a given runway there is only one match in a possible 360 degrees. Even if you use a demarcation of 10 (the same as the reported winds use) there is only a 1 in 36 match. Even if you assume you could use the opposite runway for a given wind set there is only a 2 in 36 match (reduced 1 in 18).

So, best case there is a 1 in 18 chance of the winds going straight down the runway (and I'm being very generous there). That would line up squarely with the statement that 'winds seldom blow straight down the runway'.

With that I'd say the answer to the thread title is 'No'.
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I was going to give an answer very similar to yours, but then did not for a couple of reason. First many airports have multiple runways, and so that would increase the likelihood that you have winds straight down the runway by a factor of 2 for two nonparallel runways or 3 for 3 nonparallel runways. Also in many locations the winds tend to come from a particular direction a lot of the time, and so this would alter the chances as well.

In any case, I still think that crosswind situations tend to be more common than direct headwind conditions(plus or minus 10 or 20 degrees maybe), and I think the ultimate answer is that Sporty's is still correct.
 
flhrci said:
Many interesting points of view here. I now agree that Sporty's may be correct in what they say or possibly just could have said it a little better.

David
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I'm not sure how they could have said it better than they did. OTOH, I'm still trying to figure out where you fly. An airport that doesn't have some degree of crosswind component by far most of the time (the opposite of seldom) is one I'd like to see.
 
In my experience, runways are usually oriented for the political expediency of population centers (existing and planned) and for exigencies of the terrain. Favoring wind direction is a myth and wishful thinking.
And crosswind activity is fun and good practice
 
VGT when built had 3 runways, 7/25, 12/30 and apx 01/19.
Rwy 19 was shortened and closed for commercial development.

Rwy 12 L&R is used the most. Winds can blow real strong from South 180-190, which creates a right 60 - 70 degree cross on 12 or left 60 - 70 degree cross on 25.

Those really needing it ask for "Hotel" the old South runway.
 
Captain said:
If the subject is 'Crosswind Landings' a statement like 'Winds are seldom straight down the runway' seems appropriate as it is technically correct.
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I agree, although I'd sooner tell a student "Never assume the wind is blowing straight down the runway. Even if the tower controller/ATIS/AWOS/ASOS says it is... and especially if some other pilot tells you it is!" :D
That also goes for tailwind/headwind, or how many degrees of crosswind. You might take a controller's (or a machine's) word, initially, for practical purposes, but anybody who has a scare taking off or landing because "the wind wasn't supposed to do that!" needs to remember that only the PIC is responsible for determining what wind corrections are necessary, and that the wind doesn't care what anybody says- it'll do whatever it wants to do.
As for someone on the CTAF reporting what the "active" is, well... :lol:

Even a wind sock or tetrahedron will only work as a general guideline, and in the end, you may have to make a series of adjustments as you transition from surface to sky (or vice versa).
How often the wind blows at a given angle relative to a given runway really doesn't matter, except maybe when planning a flight far in advance.
 
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Anymouse said:
Where I fly, they did a careful wind analysis prior to building the runway. After completing the wind analysis, they determined that about 50% of the time the wind comes from the west. The rest of the time it comes from the east. In order to make a more efficient landing environment, the construction team decided to split the difference and made the runway north-south.
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:rofl:

Okay, that was funny right there. :rofl:

In NE you learn cross wind landings, or you don't fly. ;)
 
MAKG1 said:
While they are technically right, they are operationally incorrect.

Winds are very often CLOSE to straight down the runway. Often so close as to make no difference to the pilot. If it makes no difference, there is little point in drawing the distinction....

It also depends where you are. I find it hard to get a challenging crosswind at PAO.
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No worries, just need to go north a few miles to SQL :yikes:
 
In your Cessna 172, you can "operationally" disregard slight crosswinds. Sure you can ignore the yoke on the ground and the rudder pedals in the air and get away with it. When you fly a tail dragger or even something like a Grumman with a castering nosewheel you may wish to rethink the "almost down the runway is ok to ignore" approach.
 
I read this thread back when it was posted, but didn't comment because I didn't have a problem with their phrasing of the quote cited in the OP. But now they've gone and done it...

The current "Tip of the Week" is on the DC SFRA. Even as a low time student, I know plenty about the SFRA, since I live 13.6NM from the edge of it. I thought I'd watch the video to pick up one new tidbit, or just to reinforce what I know. Hardly.

They spend 15 seconds on a list of 7 rules about the SFRA, but zero seconds on how to comply with those rules... For example, they mention that VFR pilots need to file a SFRA flight plan - but no information at all on HOW to do that.

The next gem is where they state, both in words on the screen and in voice-over, that the FRZ "should be considered a no-fly area" for VFR pilots. :mad2:

Next... 40 seconds on the red/green blinky lights they flash at you before they shoot you down, if you bust the FRZ. They could have spent 5 seconds on this, and given the extra 35 seconds back to how to get the FRZ training, or even how to file a SFRA flight plan.

But the final gem is that they show that due to the "many VORs" in the area, it's easy to avoid the SFRA entirely. They show a plane coming from the south, going to Casanova then Linden, and then banannaing back on course towards Maryland. That's a 106NM trip by their route (KEZF/CSN/LDN/KHGR) vs. a 87NM trip if you're willing to file a flight plan and get a code to carve through the west edge of the SFRA.

As Captain Ron has shown us here, there's nothing to fear about the SFRA, and even the FRZ isn't some evil beast. It aggravates me that a company that should champion the cause of the little guy in GA, since that's their big customer base, would just cave to what the government wants.

Growl.
 
You wanted them to explain how to file a flight plan on a SFRA video?
 
flhrci said:
I was watching the latest Sporty''s weekly video tip just for the heck of it on crosswinds takeoffs.

The very first thing the narrator says is: "Winds seldom blow straight down the runway."

I was like what did he say? I started it over and heard it again. I know they are wrong because runways are typically designed for the average or normal winds for the area.

Geesh.

Not sure what to think about that. I hope that is the only bad fact they have given out.

David
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I think some runway orientations are based somewhat on the available real estate. My home airport is 18/36, and I guarantee that 90% of the time the winds come from the NW or W.
 
Captain said:
You wanted them to explain how to file a flight plan on a SFRA video?
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Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but yes. Filling out a SFRA flight plan isn't some top-secret thing (FRZ access is more so, but the instructions on the process to get vetted and approved are on-line). Sporty's does a reasonable job explaining how to fill out a VFR flight plan in their Private Pilot training program, so they already have the graphics...

Or at least, they could say, "go to www.faasaftey.gov" or whatever, to find more information. They do mention the mandatory safety course, so they could even just say that you'll learn how to file a plan in the course.

Instead, the whole video is "you have absolutely no business in the FRZ, and you should do anything you can to avoid the entire SFRA." That's not true at all, and it does a disservice to the airports and FBOs in the SFRA, and to pilots as a whole. I just did a few sample flights on Foreflight, and avoiding the SFRA can add 25-45 NM to some routes, compared to going through the SFRA (but still avoiding the FRZ).
 
I was not being sarcastic. I think the problem may lie in that there a many ways to file a flight plan. I wouldn't expect instruction on how to file a flight plan in the video. The video is meant for the private pilot and above (I assume) and filing a flight plan should be known at that level is my guess.
 
Captain said:
I was not being sarcastic. I think the problem may lie in that there a many ways to file a flight plan. I wouldn't expect instruction on how to file a flight plan in the video. The video is meant for the private pilot and above (I assume) and filing a flight plan should be known at that level is my guess.
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Ah, but you have to file a special flight plan to operate in the SFRA. Even if the just said "file a standard flight plan, but mark it IFR, and put 'DC-SFRA VFR' and the gates you will use in the comments section", I would have been happy. Instead they were all "this is too scary for a bug smasher to attempt."

Maybe it's just me...
 
Well if that's the take away I guess I'd be annoyed too.
 
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