Sport pilot restrictions on J-3 Cub

kell490

kell490

Pre-takeoff checklist
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k490
I was reading that a sport pilot is not allowed to check the oil, or air pressure in the tires this might be old information. How can someone with a Sport Pilot certificate do a pre-flight if they are not allowed to check the oil. Also is insurance more difficult to get for a sport pilot in a tail wheel aircraft.
 
Where were you reading this about sport pilots? There is no dipstick police.

there are a lot of factors in insurance. Age, certificates, ratings, experience, type of aircraft, how expensive it is to repair. I found that I would pay a premium for building a tail-wheel Bushcat equal to about 3 yrs of gas.

If you see the purpose of insurance as protecting your family wealth with liability coverage, but not repair or replacing your “toy,” then you can find custom underwriters that are a lot cheaper.

We did that when we were cruising the Caribbean with our sailboat. Just don’t buy so high that a total loss would cripple your wealth if you ended up on a reef.

“A small boat & a suitcase full of money beats a 40 footer tied to The Bank,” was our motto. Applies to airplanes too.
 
Are you sure they didn’t mean *change* the oil and tires?
 
§ 43.3(g) Except for holders of a sport pilot certificate, the holder of a pilot certificate issued under part 61 may perform preventive maintenance on any aircraft owned or operated by that pilot which is not used under part 121, 129, or 135 of this chapter. The holder of a sport pilot certificate may perform preventive maintenance on an aircraft owned or operated by that pilot and issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category.
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Since a J-3 does has a standard, not a special (LS) airworthiness certificate, it would seem that a Sport Pilot is not authorized to perform preventative maintenance on it. Checking the oil or air pressure should be OK, but adding oil or are might not be legal.
 
Salty said:
Are you sure they didn’t mean *change* the oil and tires?
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Probably. Part 43 restricts preventative maintenance by a sport pilot to aircraft certificated as light sport. Some overthinker likely managed to translate that into a prohibition on preflight inspection.

kinda like,
but adding oil might not be legal.
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:rolleyes:
 
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Dana said:
but adding oil or are might not be legal.
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Adding engine oil or fuel is considered pre-flight or flight prep items. Theres guidance on this. Technically they're not even considered maintenance tasks and dont require a log entry for that reason. Its also the reason 100s of line boys dont get nailed for adding a quart or topping off the aircraft.
 
Bell206 said:
Adding engine oil or fuel is considered pre-flight or flight prep items. Theres guidance on this. Technically they're not even considered maintenance tasks and dont require a log entry for that reason. Its also the reason 100s of line boys dont get nailed for adding a quart or topping off the aircraft.
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Yep. They are not maintenance but "basic servicing. The distinction is discussed in the 2016 Hochberg Interpretation and in FSIMS discussion of preventative maintenance:


Basic Servicing. This item is a little more complicated. Some forms of servicing are preventive maintenance, which have some regulatory requirements. For example, a record entry is required per § 43.9 for items of preventive maintenance performed. In broad terms, it has been generally upheld that basic servicing tasks, such as fueling and adding oil, are neither maintenance nor preventive maintenance. But even that has some caveats. When adding oil requires a precise sequence of steps or partial disassembly to gain access, then that would be considered a maintenance activity. Adding oil to an oleo strut for example, would be a maintenance activity, whereas adding a quart of oil to a GA aircraft would not.
 
I think it would be very brazen of the FAA to come after you for changing the oil in your plane; but technically, yes, a sport pilot is barred from changing the oil on a J3 Cub.

Checking oil, adding oil, and air to the tires is okay.
 
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-43/section-43.3#p-43.3(g)
Except for holders of a sport pilot certificate, the holder of a pilot certificate issued under part 61 may perform preventive maintenance on any aircraft owned or operated by that pilot which is not used under part 121, 129, or 135 of this chapter. The holder of a sport pilot certificate may perform preventive maintenance on an aircraft owned or operated by that pilot and issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category.

Obviously, a legacy Cub does not have a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category.

Checking or adding oil does not appear in the preventative maintenance list
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-...endix A to Part 43#p-Appendix-A-to-Part-43(c)
 
I read this here > https://www.flysportusa.com/privileges.php Insurance might be a problem not sure if that is true today because the sport pilot has no medical certificate.


"One of the most frustrating aspects of being a Sport Pilot is that SPs are explicitly forbidden from performing minor preventative maintenance tasks on certificated aircraft. Technically speaking, an SP can't even add oil to a Piper Cub that he or she can legally own and fly. Because checking the oil (and adding oil, if needed), is a requirement during every pre-flight inspection, the law seems to contradict itself -- as well as creating a constant conundrum for Sport Pilots who fly certificated aircraft.

The EAA and other groups have been requesting that the FAA fix this inconsistency ever since the SP Rule went into effect, without much success."
 
kell490 said:
I read this here > https://www.flysportusa.com/privileges.php Insurance might be a problem not sure if that is true today because the sport pilot has no medical certificate.


"One of the most frustrating aspects of being a Sport Pilot is that SPs are explicitly forbidden from performing minor preventative maintenance tasks on certificated aircraft. Technically speaking, an SP can't even add oil to a Piper Cub that he or she can legally own and fly. Because checking the oil (and adding oil, if needed), is a requirement during every pre-flight inspection, the law seems to contradict itself -- as well as creating a constant conundrum for Sport Pilots who fly certificated aircraft.

The EAA and other groups have been requesting that the FAA fix this inconsistency ever since the SP Rule went into effect, without much success."
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There is no problem insuring sport pilots generally or LSAs. However, any number of insurance providers have pulled out of the aviation market altogether. Pilots turning 70 have had trouble, specifically. But that has nothing to do with rating or certificate. I've read articles that FAA OKC has been so impressed with the success of Basic Med that there is talk of doing away with 3rd class altogether, which would lessen their workload on SIs, appeals, SSRIs, and help them deal with the ever-expanding list of drugs pilots are prescribed.

Your best bet is to talk to an insurance agent plus join eaa and AOPA and see what is available.
 
kell490 said:
I read this here > https://www.flysportusa.com/privileges.php Insurance might be a problem not sure if that is true today because the sport pilot has no medical certificate.


"One of the most frustrating aspects of being a Sport Pilot is that SPs are explicitly forbidden from performing minor preventative maintenance tasks on certificated aircraft. Technically speaking, an SP can't even add oil to a Piper Cub that he or she can legally own and fly. Because checking the oil (and adding oil, if needed), is a requirement during every pre-flight inspection, the law seems to contradict itself -- as well as creating a constant conundrum for Sport Pilots who fly certificated aircraft.

The EAA and other groups have been requesting that the FAA fix this inconsistency ever since the SP Rule went into effect, without much success."
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It's probably not a shock to learn that you really can't believe everything you see on a web page somewhere, even if the creator of that web page claims to know what they're talking about. Information also gets stale and out of date.

Aviation insurers have figured out that there are Sport Pilot certificate holders out there, as well as pilots using BasicMed who don't have medical certificates. I don't know of any Sport Pilots who have had difficulty obtaining insurance; I'm a Private Pilot certificate holder with no medical and insurance isn't an issue. And as has been noted previously, adding oil and checking/filling tires isn't considered "preventive maintenance".

s-l400.jpg
 
DaleB said:
I'm a Private Pilot certificate holder with no medical and insurance isn't an issue.
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Same.
E-AB taildragger LSA. Just got renewed last week and the helpful people at the agency put my age down as 70 on the application even though I have purd near 2 months before I finally dry up and blow away.
 
Thanks for clearing that up the more I look into the medical, and the fact that the FAA is suppose to do something with the Sport pilot rules by the end of next year I'm starting to realize that Sport Pilot might be the best choice.

rhkennerly said:
There is no problem insuring sport pilots generally or LSAs. However, any number of insurance providers have pulled out of the aviation market altogether. Pilots turning 70 have had trouble, specifically. But that has nothing to do with rating or certificate. I've read articles that FAA OKC has been so impressed with the success of Basic Med that there is talk of doing away with 3rd class altogether, which would lessen their workload on SIs, appeals, SSRIs, and help them deal with the ever-expanding list of drugs pilots are prescribed.

Your best bet is to talk to an insurance agent plus join eaa and AOPA and see what is available.
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That would be a nice suprise but I'm not holding my breath on that one unless congress gets involved and forces them to change it. If they had any sense they would just outsource class 1 and 2 to AME'S completely give the AME immunity from lawsuits. FAA would only get involved if there was an appeal to an AME's denial. Then do away with class 3 completely make that a drivers license. This is all wishful thinking until then ill just go light sport most likely. I do plan to get a consult in few weeks with an AME just to discuss the possible hoops. I'm about 90% sure ill go light sport.
 
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Of course, purchasing a Cub Clone with an S-LSA, E-LSA or E-AB certificate solves the maintenance issues no matter what kind of pilot certificate you have...
 
midlifeflyer said:
Much of aviation mythology exists independent of the internet. I've seen more exploded by the internet than created by it,
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Oh yeah! But I'm not sure that the myths that show up can be blown up as fast as they grow up. It's a never ending battle ...
 
Daleandee said:
Oh yeah! But I'm not sure that the myths that show up can be blown up as fast as they grow up. It's a never ending battle ...
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I said that because I've been in online pilot forums since the days when Usenet and Compuserv SIGs were king. Despite the growth of unadulterated BS in other areas, I've found the opposite pattern with aviation. An expansion of knowledge. Of course the myths come through but most seem to get shot down pretty quickly without a lot of folks claiming the myth is correct.
 
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