Sport cruiser anyone?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by bluesideup, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi.
    Is there a supplier / distributor in US for this acft?
    What is everyone thinking about it?
    Is Trutrak still active serviceable, and reliable?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  2. Slipperhead

    Slipperhead Filing Flight Plan

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    There is one in Addison, TX called US Sport Aircraft. They have posted a good number of quality videos on YouTube.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  3. C-1 PILOT

    C-1 PILOT Pre-takeoff checklist

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  4. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Cruiser Aircraft is now the importer / distributor of the Sportcruiser. http://cruiseraircraft.com/

    Ditto: SCflier is a good resource for Sportcruiser information.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  5. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Line Up and Wait

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    The Sport Cruiser was once branded as the PiperSport, for a short while. The Bristell is very similar, designed by the same guy.
     
  6. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Nice airplane. Got a couple hours in one early on in my return to training.
     
  7. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Old dog w/o new tricks
    They had a few real hot looking models at Sun-n-Fun this year.

    They also had a few planes there as well.
     
  8. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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    I have a bunch of hours in a 2009 Sport Cruiser, and I really liked the plane.
    My only kvetch was that it was noticeably more pitch sensitive compared to the Tecnams, Jbirds, Arions, Searay, etc that I was flying at the time.
    But 1/2 hour into it and my brain adapted. After that I only noticed it if I was flying something else for any length of time then hopped in the Cruiser.
    I'm told that was addressed in later models, and there was a retrofit available.

    My real kvetch for all the "bubble tops" is with the canopy. I don't want hinges, I want a sliding canopy.
     
  9. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi everyone.
    Thank you for the feedback.
    There seem to be a number of Panels that were available around 2009, some with Trutrak, and I do not know if the company is still in the business to do repairs on the PFDs MFDs?
    Is a Dynon a more desirable combination?
    Interesting point about >>retrofit available<< is that a factory approved modification, in that year models?
    How does one go about getting it done?
    Also some people say there was / is no fuel measuring stick available from the factory, is there one available aftermarket?
     
  10. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Flew one as a PiperSport. Definitely my favorite of the three LSAs I've flown and right up there overall.
     
  11. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Looks like TruTrak is still in business but doing autopilots and some flight instrumentation, but not the EFIS. However you could probably call them to see if they will support.

    The other panels that the 2007-2009 Sportcruisers came with include the classic analog display, or the Dynon D100 and D120.

    Sportcruisers became Piper Sports in 2010 and 2011. In 2011 and onward, the became Sportcruiser once again and were built by Czech Sport Aircraft (CSA).

    Trim tab was added as part of the rebranding under Piper Sport to help reduce some of the "pitch sensitivity." I am not sure of what is involved to add the trim tab, but I suspect it would involve replacing the elevator.

    Here's a thread on fuel tank dip sticks on the SCflier forum: http://www.scflier.com/topic/328-fu...el-tank-dip-sticks/?tab=comments#comment-2661
     
  12. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi everyone.
    Thank you for the feedback.
    From what I can read, from all the boards that I can find, it sounds like the Sport cruiser will be grounded when the 2020 will be required?
    The only option may be to go ELSA? If that is the case none of the existing owners of SC will be able to sell their acft. unless they take a huge loss and sell it as ELSA. This will also likely affect the new acft., unless they come with 2020 included as standard, but even so it will likely kill their market.
    Sounds like there will be quite a few people very upset.
     
  13. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff

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    No, the new aircraft are coming with Dynon Skyview HDX and ADS-B can be fitted to that. Nobody should be upset when buying a new Sportcruiser (unless it's about price. But that's another thread.)

    The older aircraft have a SB issued by CSA to install a GTX 335 to achieve ADS-B compliance for the 2020 mandate. https://czechsportaircraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/SB-SC-053_R0.pdf

    In terms of taking a hit when converting to E-LSA, that's to be determined. If converting to E-LSA allows more useful upgrades (like installing a GTX 345 or GDL-82) and upgrading the Garmin 396 or 496 to a Garmin Aera 660, I think some of those upgrades would be of value to some buyers.
     
  14. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi.
    If the panels have space for the 335 it will work, but some had the Becker 4400 series with the Trutrak, they would have to change the complete panel to get it, and may cost them more than the acft. or is there any other solution? Interesting position the owners are being put in.
    What a mess.
     
  15. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Are you looking at this aircraft per chance?

    https://www.controller.com/listings...451555/2009-czech-sport-aircraft-sportcruiser

    The Becker radio is going to be a problem. Seems like going E-LSA in that particular aircraft and installing a GDL-82 might be your best bet. Thus, if it is this aircraft, make your offer accordingly since you know it will need to fly as a E-LSA if it plans to operate in any controlled airspace starting in 2020.

    If you need a certificated S-LSA, then I suggest you look for another Sportcruiser. Plenty in this price range (or there abouts) with Dynon EFIS and Garmin radios and transponders.
     
  16. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi.
    I am trying to help someone, and try to get educated, but that is one of the available for sale that is in that configuration. I can understand why there are so many SC out for sale.
    If the factory will not come up with a solution, back their product, nobody will ever trust them in the future.
    A possible solution may only be from FAA if they decide to relax the requirements and accept some portable solution, but that is not likely to happen.
    It is difficult to say what the adjustment may be to make an offer, I would think that the price a buyer pays now, even if you buy these around 50-60K, like the one advertised is too much if you have to go ELSA not knowing how the insurance and resale could be affected. One may end up with a useless acft.
    I guess the lesson may be to stay away from any Cruiser Sport until the factory gets more responsive, and shows that they support it, and finds a solution.
     
  17. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Well, a little history is needed, but overall, your thoughts aren’t far from the truth as it relates to “legacy Sportcruisers.” You’ll see much of the same at SCflier.

    CZAW was the original manufacturer back in 2006-2009. CZAW went bankrupt in 2009 and Cruiser Sport Aircraft (CSA) was formed in 2009 and partnered with Piper to produce the Piper Sport in 2010-2011. But that relationship fell apart in 2011 and it became a CSA Sportcruiser from 2011 onward. The point of this history is that CSA want to separate itself (it seems) from the CZAW produced aircraft. CSA is not very sympathetic to the CZAW aircraft and come out with service bulletins that essentially force brining the CZAW aircraft up to CSA design standards. (E.g. replace your firewall so you can install the current vertical support braces (with lips pointing out instead of in) in order to install the nose gear reinforcemement plate.)

    If you buy a more modern Sportcruiser, you should have much fewer issues.

    Thus, it’s not quite right to say “stay away from these aircraft.” If you have a Piper Sport or newer, you’ll likely be fine. The early (2006-2009) Sportcruisers have other challenges from the factory, but so long as you get the more conventional Dynon or 6 pack steam gauge panel, you’ll likely be fine for the most part.

    In terms of Sportcruisers available for sale on the market... it’s not just the Sportcruiser. It’s all LSA. With Basic Med, previous PP flying under LSA rules can now transition back to GA aircraft. That’s what’s driving the LSA market. But the Sportcruiser is one of the more popular models with higher number of sales. More products sold means more product on the used market later. The same holds true for Flight Design aircraft. There are plenty for sale used because they sold so many.
     
  18. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi.
    You seem to know a lot about them.
    Can the older acft be upgraded, firewall etc, with factory approval? From what I read the factory will no longer approve / give permissions to upgrade / make modifications?
     
  19. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Difficult (read: darned near impossible) to get an LOA. But if you’re fitting what’s already available in existing aircraft, no LOA needed and you’re good to go.

    Firewall - factory supports the firewall replacement for the nose gear replacement and “bulk up” kit since it brings the legacy aircraft up to 2010+ standards.
     
  20. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi.
    OK. Thank you
    I am not sure where to find out, I will try to call someone on Monday to find out how, where, how much it may cost to get it done.
    I think, at least for now, until I find out more information, my recommendation would be to stay away from SC, at least the ones that have the Becker Xpndr.
    Without the 2020 ability to upgrade those will be grounded, or lose more than 50% of their resale value. Too bad they are nice acft otherwise.
    Looking at the one you mentioned it may not be a decent buy if you pay more than 40K, I would think.


     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  21. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff

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    You can call Cruiser Aircraft in Sebastian, Florida. Candace answers the phone and is extremely knowledgeable and nice. Here's a link to Cruiser Aircraft's website.

    In terms of the firewall replacement, Cruiser Aircraft will refer you to an A&P in Utah that has done this. I believe they quote 3 days since the engine has to be removed and the price is somewhere in the $4K range.

    In terms of the aircraft in that Controller advertisement, or whichever you're looking at, if the potential buyer isn't looking to do any commercial activities (e.g. lease it out for flight school use, etc.), then he/she may be able to negotiate a favorable price and just convert to E-LSA. Once converted, install a GDL-82 and you'll be fine. I don't know what GPS is being used, but if it's a Garmin, you can install a GDL-39 and that will provide the ADS-B in. Or just use a Stratus, Stratux, or any other receiver and an iPad or iPhone and you'll have that "ADS-B In" picture.

    Note that the 2010+ Sportcruisers have a taller glare shield and the panels are subsequently taller (and usually contain a Garmin 696.) The 2006-2009 "Legacy" Sportcruisers have a shorter glare shield and panel, and are also blessed with lower weight (more useful load).
     
  22. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi.
    Very good information. Thank you.
    It would be very difficult to approximate the future value,if one changes to ELSA, in order to make a reasonable offer now. I would not know who would be willing take that chance, I am not sure if they change to ELSA if they could go back, revert back, to an SLSA in the future, if SC gets their act together?
    From my perspective, losing the SLSA would be a huge loss in value, others may think differently, but I would not recommend to anyone to buy a used SLSA unless they can maintain the SLSA status, for any amount.

    Would a GDL 82 even work with a Becker? I would think it would, but there is no data that I can find that lists compatibility?
     
  23. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I think there may be some impact to value. But I don't think it will be as much as people think. Especially if you bought the aircraft at a good price point.

    Regarding converting back to S-LSA after being E-LSA, I think that's extremely unlikely. Once converted to E-LSA, the manufacturer is not likely to re-accept any liability as they won't know what work was performed to the aircraft after converting to E-LSA. (e.g. Any work that was not in conformance to a LOA or SB)


    I don't see why not? The GDL-82 runs in series with the transponder, and connects to the transponder's output. Perhaps the only challenge may be the antenna as the GDL-82 transmits at 978 mhz vs 1090 mhz, so a change to another RAMI antenna may be necessary. Note that a GDL-82 will keep the aircraft in US borders only as other countries (Mexico, Canada) require 1090 mhz. But this is a non-issue for a Sport Pilot since those pilots' certificates are not recognized internationally.
     
  24. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi.
    If the GDL 82 works, and I would assume that factory has to test and approve it, all factory / CS needs to do is to give owners the LOA. I would assume there is sufficient space behind the panel to install it. It just sounds like CS, if they care about their existing customer base, have an easy way, GDL 82, to allow all their customers to get to 2020. Why are they not doing this, must be another issue that we don't understand, or know about?
     
  25. rtk11

    rtk11 Cleared for Takeoff

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  26. bluesideup

    bluesideup Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hi.
    Thank you.
    I will read it. I hope FAA will allow some portable solution. I cannot see how all the acft that need it will be able to get it done by 2020, excluding the ones that cannot find/ have a solution now. It's likely going to be a mess. I am not sure FAA has the resources to track down and fine / stop all the violators when the time comes. Some one needs to awake up.