Sport Airplane at night?

LSAs can be flown at night when:

1. They are equipped as specified in 91.205 for night flight
2. They do not have an operating limitation restricting them from night flight
3. The pilot is exercising his private or better privileges (which means he needs a medical, etc..).

The SportCruiser does indeed meet #1 and #2 above.
 
My LSA has fantastic LED lights, but I can't use'em at night because I'm a PP-SEL currently flying under SP regs. Therefore, as a sport pilot, I can't fly at night. If I allowed my buddy with a current 3rd class medical to fly my plane, he could fly from sun-down to sun-up as he pleased.
 
ETres said:
My LSA has fantastic LED lights, but I can't use'em at night because I'm a PP-SEL currently flying under SP regs. Therefore, as a sport pilot, I can't fly at night. If I allowed my buddy with a current 3rd class medical to fly my plane, he could fly from sun-down to sun-up as he pleased.
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My Jabiru has great LED lighting but the manual says no night flight. At least they're available if things don't work.
 
flyingron said:
LSAs can be flown at night when:

1. They are equipped as specified in 91.205 for night flight
2. They do not have an operating limitation restricting them from night flight
3. The pilot is exercising his private or better privileges (which means he needs a medical, etc..).

The SportCruiser does indeed meet #1 and #2 above.
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I thought that the Rotax 912ULS used in the SportCruiser has a prohibition in its operating instructions against night flight?
 
asicer said:
I thought that the Rotax 912ULS used in the SportCruiser has a prohibition in its operating instructions against night flight?
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Do you have some sort of reference to that?

I know that the PiperSport circa 2010 POH had an "Approved for Day VFR flights only" limitation in its POH. If I recall correctly it was because the placement of the position lights made it difficult (impossible?) to see them from behind the airplane.

But, looking at later editions of the SportCuuiser POH, circa 2011, the same limitation reference says, "Approved for Day and Night VFR flights only."
 
AFAIK, there's nothing in the FAR's requiring an aircraft (or an engine) to be "Approved for Night VFR" by the manufacturer. Meet the equipment standards and the plane can be flown at night.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Why would an engine care if it is flow at night or not?
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An example of operating instructions is a S-LSA equipped with a Rotax engine. Rotax's operating instructions prohibit the use of a Rotax engine at night or in IFR conditions unless it is the FAA type certificated engine (14 CFR part 33). Other engine, airframe, and accessory manufacturers might impose similar restrictions.
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https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/frequently-asked-questions-about-sport-pilot
 
Old Geek said:
AFAIK, there's nothing in the FAR's requiring an aircraft (or an engine) to be "Approved for Night VFR" by the manufacturer. Meet the equipment standards and the plane can be flown at night.
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Well, you'd be wrong. The operating limitations have the force of law for both traditional aircraft and light sport. While older aircraft usually don't have any prohibition on night or IFR, later certificated ones almost certainly do indicate such.

If your airplane limitations say "DAY VFR ONLY" it doesn't matter how it is equipped or how accurate your instruments are. You can flight it night or IFR.
 
Old Geek said:
AFAIK, there's nothing in the FAR's requiring an aircraft (or an engine) to be "Approved for Night VFR" by the manufacturer. Meet the equipment standards and the plane can be flown at night.
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§ 23.1525 Kinds of operation.
The kinds of operation authorized (e.g. VFR, IFR, day or night) and the meteorological conditions (e.g. icing) to which the operation of the airplane is limited or from which it is prohibited, must be established appropriate to the installed equipment.​

If my memory is correct and the reasons for the original limitation to day VFR was the location of position lights, the applicable FAR equipment standard that wasn't met was probably FAR 23.1385-1387, particularly 23.1387(d).

(While Part 23 doesn't directly apply to LSAs, I can see where similar limitations would apply to an LSA special airworthiness certificate)
 
As far as I understand it, Light Sport Aircraft are issued special airworthiness certificates (they’re pink) under the FARs (e.g. 21.175 and 21.190)

For night VFR, the consensus standard (ASTM F2245-07a is the last one I saw) adds this equipment list to the equipment required for daytime VFR (It’s in “Annex 2 – LSA to be flown at night”:

  1. Instrument Lights
  2. Position Lights
  3. Anti-collision light system
  4. Landing light (if operated for hire)
  5. Source of electrical energy
  6. Spare set of fuses (or 3 of each type)
  7. One switch each for position lights, anti-collision light system, landing light, taxi light, and cabin light
  8. Attitude indicator

91.205 doesn't seem to apply to LSAs because it’s limited to aircraft with “standard” airworthiness certificates. It doesn’t really matter though since the ASTM list tracks 91.205(c), and then even adds a few more requirements, namely items 1, 7 and 8.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Do you have some sort of reference to that?

I know that the PiperSport circa 2010 POH had an "Approved for Day VFR flights only" limitation in its POH. If I recall correctly it was because the placement of the position lights made it difficult (impossible?) to see them from behind the airplane.

But, looking at later editions of the SportCuuiser POH, circa 2011, the same limitation reference says, "Approved for Day and Night VFR flights only."
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I believe that originally, the night-flying package was an option, but it became standard after about half a dozen SportCruisers were built. Apparently everyone wanted the lighting package, so they just made it standard.

The POH was also re-written after the first handful of airplanes were built. I remember that the original POH mentioned nothing about night flying. IFR and FIKI were specifically prohibited, but the POH was silent about nights. If the earlier aircraft had the night package, there was a POH supplement.

The later airplanes all had the night package, and night VFR was specifically allowed in the POH. IFR and FIKI, however, were still prohibited.

asicer said:
I thought that the Rotax 912ULS used in the SportCruiser has a prohibition in its operating instructions against night flight?
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I think the SportCruiser actually uses the 912ULS2, which is a 100-hp version that presumably lacks that prohibition. Why day or night would have any effect on an engine, I have no idea.

It's been a long time since I've flown a SportCruiser and I don't have a POH handy, so this is all from memory. I could be mistaken.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Why day or night would have any effect on an engine, I have no idea.
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My only thoughts are that they don't trust the alternator or that they're worried strobe lights would interfere with the ignition system.
 
I think the disconnect started at first because the US allows VFR at night with a PPL and properly equipped plane, but many other countries do not. Australia for Jabiru and Austria for Rotax. The first engines had the prohibation based on the country of manufacture.
 
ejensen said:
My Jabiru has great LED lighting but the manual says no night flight. At least they're available if things don't work.
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Are you sure about that, Eric? The POH for my 2010 J230-SP (N731J) says "Night VFR approved if equipped with Nav/Strobe wingtip light package" (§ 3.2)
 
midlifeflyer said:
If I recall correctly it was because the placement of the position lights made it difficult (impossible?) to see them from behind the airplane.
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All position lights (except the white tail light) are impossible to see from behind afaik.
 
jcwCT said:
Are you sure about that, Eric? The POH for my 2010 J230-SP (N731J) says "Night VFR approved if equipped with Nav/Strobe wingtip light package" (§ 3.2)
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I was sure:) Now have to look again. I have the wingtip combo.
 
jcwCT said:
Are you sure about that, Eric? The POH for my 2010 J230-SP (N731J) says "Night VFR approved if equipped with Nav/Strobe wingtip light package" (§ 3.2)
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Same entry in my 09 POH. Now if they reform 3rd class I can use them. Thanks for alerting me.
 
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